Question: Say I breed my stallion & my mare, futurity nominate the foal - I foal out the mare, wean the foal then send it to a trainer to be shown in the futurity class. I pay the trainer all his/her fees for training - pay for the show & all it's fees. The foal wins in the futurity class & wins $$ - Should that trainer be entitled to any of those winnings and why??
question regarding training fees
- Thread starter Janis
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
It depends on what you'd agreed to up front. Was there a training contract? And, if so, did it address what happens to material winnings? I can see it going either way, or any combination, depending on what people wanted to do up front.
If it wasn't addressed in a contract, my feeling is that the winnings belong to the owner, not the trainer.
If it wasn't addressed in a contract, my feeling is that the winnings belong to the owner, not the trainer.
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Leeana
Well-Known Member
If i was training a clients horse i would personally find it rude to ask for part of the futurity or any other incentive class's winning. As far as im concerned that should go straight to the owner. The trainer is already getting paid their handling, training, hauling and day show fee's.
Now, if the owner and training have an 'understanding' or there is something else behind all of it and they would want to split the winnings ..well yes of course. But i think the trainer asking for part of the futurity winnings would be rude, well atleast i wouldnt have it in me to ask anyhow
Now, if the owner and training have an 'understanding' or there is something else behind all of it and they would want to split the winnings ..well yes of course. But i think the trainer asking for part of the futurity winnings would be rude, well atleast i wouldnt have it in me to ask anyhow
Sue_C.
Well-Known Member
I figure...he who PAYS IT...TAKES IT. I have never heard of a trainer keeping "won money", from a horse they didn't have monetary interest in...and I know trainers of several different breeds and diciplines.
I know that I'm hard-headed, but I just can't see that the trainer would be entitled to any winnings. Now, if they had taken a "chance" and paid part of the futurity fees in the beginning, then yes, I think they would be entitled. I don't think the training and/or conditioning would be any different with a open show horse than a futurity nominated horse, so why should they be entitled to more $$.
Thanks for your replies. I'm just trying to make sense of something.
Janis
Thanks for your replies. I'm just trying to make sense of something.
Janis
We show Tennessee Walking and Spotted Saddle Horses...and the trainer keeps the monetary winnings. It's standard in the industry. Hubby has often asked why....we pay training, hauling, grooming fees, entry fees, etc. but the trainer does keep the winnings!
Janis,
I've NEVER heard of a trainer in the miniature horse industry keep the futurity monies. The only time I know of a trainer receiving any, was when the horse owner offered the trainer a bonus/thank you out of the winnings.
Checks are normally written to the horse OWNER by the registry or the club that is awarding the winnings, if that tells you something.
MA
I've NEVER heard of a trainer in the miniature horse industry keep the futurity monies. The only time I know of a trainer receiving any, was when the horse owner offered the trainer a bonus/thank you out of the winnings.
Checks are normally written to the horse OWNER by the registry or the club that is awarding the winnings, if that tells you something.
MA
Sue_C.
Well-Known Member
OH!
Now wait a minute, I have read on one of the mini trainers website that they do keep it or half or something, I was shocked!
I personally would not be able to agree to this, I have horses in training and it costs a small fortune, of course for good cause IMO, but that being said if I win the futurity I will be using that money to pay for the cost of that trainer....lol....unless I have some other agreement, but the money will come in a check that is in the owners name not the trainers name.
I personally would not be able to agree to this, I have horses in training and it costs a small fortune, of course for good cause IMO, but that being said if I win the futurity I will be using that money to pay for the cost of that trainer....lol....unless I have some other agreement, but the money will come in a check that is in the owners name not the trainers name.
Minimor
Well-Known Member
I was going to say that this isn't something I would take for granted. In my view, any and all winnings belong to the owner, assuming that the owner is the one that paid all nominating, sustaining & entry fees. As I see it, the trainer is being paid to take a horse into the ring....regular training fees plus any show fees, which include trailering, preparation of the horse for the ring, handling the horse in the class...the trainer has a set fee for all of these things plus the owner pays for the entries...the winnings belong to the owner. However, I also know that there are some trainers--can't say for sure about Minis but I have no doubt that there are a few Mini trainers who do the same thing as some trainers in other breeds--that do take a percentage of any winnings. Because I know this happens with some trainers, I would be sure to ask a particular trainer ahead of time, just so there are no nasty surprises down the road.
S
StarRidgeAcres
Guest
Wow, maybe I'm a fool, but I've always agreed (in writing) that the trainer gets 10% of the futurity winnings. And that's been that way with each trainer we've used, not just one or two. I just assumed it was customary. We've also agreed to pay 10% of the sale price should a horse be sold while in training. Hmmm. Maybe I need to rethink some stuff
L
Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis
Guest
Starridge Acres I dont think you are the only one. I have heard of this as well and don't thing it is that uncommon?
Like any sale ect as long as things are spelled out and you know what to expect
and the 10 percent of any horse sold while in training is pretty customary as well -
Like any sale ect as long as things are spelled out and you know what to expect
and the 10 percent of any horse sold while in training is pretty customary as well -
whimsical
Well-Known Member
I know of two very well known trainers in AMHA that have it in their standard contract to have 10% of any monetary winnings.
But I agree. You have paid for the service so they shouldn't even ask. If a person wanted to tip them for a job well done then that should be a the the descretion of the owner.
But I agree. You have paid for the service so they shouldn't even ask. If a person wanted to tip them for a job well done then that should be a the the descretion of the owner.
SirenFarms
Well-Known Member
I am a trainer and if I win with one of their horses the money goes to them. I dont ask for any or want any. I get paid for the training part. that is what my job is. Now if they wanted to give me a SMALL bonus for winning that is up to them. But I do not ask for any part of the winnings unless I am a partial owner of the horse. good topic!
In my facility it is noted on my contract that all moneys or awards are given to the owners. I do not keep any of it. If the owners want to give me a gift, that is thier choice, this is greatly appreciate, but not expected.
The only thing I charge is a sales commission on any horse sold through our facility.
The only thing I charge is a sales commission on any horse sold through our facility.
That's downright crazy!!!!! You pay THEM...you pay the FEES and THEY take the money...I think I would be changing that "rule".
Yes, Sue. It does seem like overkill. Sometimes I think we must be completely insane.
OH! We have two in training that win often and it sure would help with all the expenses if the money went to the owner! It's a rule you can't change....you'd end up trainerless! I am glad to hear this isn't a standard practice with minis, I hope to get into showing soon!
Charlotte
Well-Known Member
We've been trining since '97? 98? Can't remember. All winnings go to the owner. Period. (I sure would have liked one of those World Champion jackets though
)
Also, if we sell a horse in training with us we don't charge a commission. I hear of that a lot! If we sell a horse that isn't in training here then we do charge commission.
Charlotte
Also, if we sell a horse in training with us we don't charge a commission. I hear of that a lot! If we sell a horse that isn't in training here then we do charge commission.
Charlotte
Sue_C.
Well-Known Member
WOW...I never knew this was a practice, in any breed. I would offer a tip, if I felt it justified...but would not want to just hand over the winnings.
Those trainers have quite the deal. They don't have to lay-down any $$ for a horse; then THEY get paid to train it, get paid to show it, get paid the prize $$ when it wins, get paid if they sell it for the owner...AND...get a reputation (paid in-full by horse owners) which makes other people want to rush over and pay them to do the same thing for them. SWEET!!
OH!
So...if they train a LOSER...do you get a portion of your $$ BACK.
Those trainers have quite the deal. They don't have to lay-down any $$ for a horse; then THEY get paid to train it, get paid to show it, get paid the prize $$ when it wins, get paid if they sell it for the owner...AND...get a reputation (paid in-full by horse owners) which makes other people want to rush over and pay them to do the same thing for them. SWEET!!
OH!So...if they train a LOSER...do you get a portion of your $$ BACK.
Warpony
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That's downright crazy!!!!! You pay THEM...you pay the FEES and THEY take the money...I think I would be changing that "rule".
Yes, Sue. It does seem like overkill. Sometimes I think we must be completely insane.
Wow, things must be different where you are or have changed in the last 20 years. When I was active in TWH's this was NOT something we saw AT ALL! The trainer usually got 10% of winnings as a reward for a job well done but they did NOT keep it all! I worked for the trainers, not the owners, but none of the trainers I knew would have expected more than 10%.
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I agree, 10% seems to be a pretty standard amount to "tip" the trainers if you will. We have a Futurity horse or so nearly every year, and this is what I expect to do. I've only had it actually on my bill once, the others I have given because I wanted to (and would rather it be that way). This year I almost had to force the issue LOL, trainer kept telling me I didn't have to do that.
Kind of like tipping or giving bonuses in any other situation in my mind - it's for a job well done, and should not be demanded but earned.
Jan
Jan
