Question about selling ethics

[2minis4us]

Question - if you bought a mare and the seller did not tell you that mare had a dwarf foal in the past do you think it is wrong ?

 

[REO]

Yes

 

[Tremor]

Personally, no. It would depend on the following circumstances.

-Did you ask about her foaling history?

-How many non-dwarves had she produced before hand? (they may have not have known she was a dwarf producer until that foal)

-Was it an obvious dwarf?

-How educated were the breeders about dwarfism?

 

[minie812]

You can ask all the right questions and still end up with a mare with issues. I guess it depends on how ethical the seller is also. Personally I would have told the buyer she was pet quality and the reason why.

 

[Jill]

Did you ask?

That's the thing with too many people who have something to sell. They see it as a Buyer Beware situation.

Personally, you would think I'm practicing sales prevention if you were trying to buy a horse from me because I will tell you all I can about the horse, including the negative or potentially negative, to the best of my knowledge and ability. I don't want my horses bouncing around, and it's so important to me that the buyer is happy with the horse (because that is clearly in the best interest of the horse!). But that is not how everyone operates

 

[2minis4us]

Personally, no. It would depend on the following circumstances.

-Did you ask about her foaling history?

-How many non-dwarves had she produced before hand? (they may have not have known she was a dwarf producer until that foal)

-Was it an obvious dwarf?

-How educated were the breeders about dwarfism?

No, I did not ask because I saw the foal in pictures and it looked normal at that time.

I thought she only had one foal before.

Oh yeah ! It's obvoiusly a dwarf.

I am sure the seller was educated.

 

[weerunner]

Yes, it is wrong. I also am brutally honest about the horses I sell. I have one little colt left from my spring crop of babies, probably because when people come I tell them he is not a people friendly foal, and he is not. For a person willing to spend alot of time and effort with him, I'm sure he would come around but so far the right person had not shown up. So I will keep him and try to bring him around over hte winter. I'm not going to sell him to someone wanting a cuddly loving foal because that's just not him. Show quality - yes absolutely. Loving- not at the moment.

Same goes for any conformation flaws or vices. I dont want that horse having to come back to me as I take them back if they dont work out, so I have to be honest.

 

[madmax]

It always comes down to knowing your seller's reputation, you know, a horse dealer, or a small breeder that really cares and tells you anything and everything about the horse, good and bad.

What is important to me is that the horse is matched to the buyer, they know the horse's faults so that there is no surprises when they get him home. Every horse I have sold is a boomerang horse, if the buyer is not happy, bring him; back to me, I don't want him moving on somewhere else.

As for the dwarf issue, the possibility is there unfortunately waiting to happen in many lines, a toss of the dice when it will show up, sorry about your mare, wish you had known.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I think my feelings on the dwarfism genes are pretty well known at this point, but I will say that if a mare is purchased in an auction setting I think it is buyer beware. While many good horses are sold through auctions, I also think many seemingly great horses are sold through auctions for this very reason - to avoid accountability for undisclosed issues. Now in a private sale where a horse is being advertised for breeding I absolutely think it's unethical to not disclose any issue that would affect the breedability, saleability and health of a mare/stallion and its potential foals. Obviously dwarfism falls under that category. The tricky thing about your particular situation is that you actually saw pictures of the foal, so the seller could say they thought you knew from the pictures.

 

[Tremor]

No, I did not ask because I saw the foal in pictures and it looked normal at that time.

I thought she only had one foal before.

Oh yeah ! It's obvoiusly a dwarf.

I am sure the seller was educated.

Then I don't think it was the seller's fault. You cannot assume how educated the breeder was unless they've been in the business and have known carrier lines. We have had mares produce foals that weren't dwarfy as foals but were as adults. Obviously, the deed for the next year was already done. We were not educated.

As a buyer you need to ask ALL of the questions when buying breeding stock. If they say she produced a foal and it was put down at a young age then you need to make the assumption that it was hereditary. You need all of the information you can't get with potential breeding stock.

 

[eagles ring farm]

The dwarf gene has to have both parents pass the gene in order to get a dwarf foal as far as I know

but if this were to happen, Since they do not offer the testing yet It is only fair to pass that information

on to a new owner. even though it won't be the same cross when she is bred at a new farm.

And may never happen again but it would be the right thing to do to let then buyer know she carries the gene.

In case they should have a stallion that has produced a dwarf in the past.

It is knowledge that should be shared with a prospective buyer just the same as other problems with a horse.

That said we like to be as honest as possible with everything we can think of about a house when selling

the more questions people ask the better as we want our horses to have a happy home with the buyer

we have communicated with and not be passed from buyer to buyer.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Yes I think you need to disclose the fact a mare or stallion has produced a dwarf if you are selling to someone looking for breeding stock. She should have been sold as a pet with the precaution that she has produced a dwarf. What the buyer does after that you can't be held accountable for. If they choose to take the risk it is on them.

 

[2minis4us]

The dwarf was born at the sellers farm but did not show traits until after he left, but the seller knew. I bought the mare bred from the seller BUT she was bred to a different stallion and she foaled a perfect filly for me.

I WILL NOT breed her again because after the filly was born she coliced and had kidney failure. The mare is ok now after big $$$ spent, but I am ok with that.

It's just the point, I think a seller should disclose ALL information when selling a horse.

The seller also has the dwarf colt's sire for sale for big bucks.... if he were to sell wouldn't you want to know he sired a dwarf ?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

For me it would be exactly the same as not disclosing an animal was LWO...what happens when a lethal foal rolls out? Do you say "Caveat Emptor" then as well? This is just pushing the problem onto someone else and it is unethical, pure and simple.

Everything the owner/seller knows that affects the horse they are selling should, obviously, be disclosed to the purchaser.

 

[Debby - LB]

Yes I would think it wrong.

 

[mel]

Personally I am a breeder and a shower, and YES it is bad buisness to not be completely 100% honest! I have probably talked people out of buying more of my horses because I will tell them the good bad and ugly about a horse they are looking at. In my contracts I list everything that I know is "wrong" with the horse, if its a brood mare the buyer gets a summary of the previous foalings and my personal critiques of the foals. I want my buyers to be happy, and I want my horses to be happy, and I always followup after a sale to make sure the buyer is 100% satisfied with their purchase.

So yes we as sellers need to be honest and release all information that we know about a horse to a prospective buyer, how else is there to do good buisness.

 

[mshasta88]

This is a very touchy subject to a lot of people. I personally have always told people if there was a history of dwarfism, whether they ask or not, but that was never the reason I was selling them. I no longer own horses that have thrown dwarfs but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen.