Panacure Protocal

[LittleRibbie]

Ive been reading alot lately of people doing 5 day. My horses are on regular rotating wormer schedules but have never done Panacure. Could you explain why you like ( I dont know if "like" is the word Im looking for here LOL )doing this. Is it something that you all do once a year to all your horses. Does it target specific worms. Is it forgiving ( if i dont know the exact weight of horse )What would be some of the reasons you would decide to do 1 or more of your horses w/5 day. Ive seen the tubes but honestly never even looked/read them...is it like a regular wormer....1 tube for possibly 4 horses or in this case 1 tube divided into maybe 5 days?And for those that perhaps dont use the Panacure is there something you would suggest or seem to like better and why.

Sorry, i know there are lots of ?'s on this one post but Im just trying to figure out if maybe i should work this into part of my worming regimn.

This maybe sort of a strange question but where I live ( fl.) does that maybe make a difference in when this should be used...I dont know..different worms and cootie bugs w/different times of the year...just throwing it all at ya, sorry

Thanks ahead of time for your assistance

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I have done it in the past, but not recently. If I remember correctly it is to kill encysted small strongyles. You give a double dose of fenbendazole (either Panacur or Safeguard) for 5 days. Fenbendazole is very safe, I don't remember the exact numbers but you have to give a lot more than a double dose to cause problems from an overdose, it's one of the safest dewormers out there.

The number of tubes you will need depends on the weight of your minis, they do sell a "power pack or power dose" to do the 5 days for full size horses. Each tube is for 1,100lbs (they do also sell larger tubes for 4,000lbs).

The only other option to kill encysted small stronglyes is Quest (moxidectin) which I will not use for my Miniatures because of the extremely low safety margin.

My vet recommends only once a year in November for my area, I would check with your vet for deworming recommendations for your area and number of horses.

 

[Eagle]

Heidi have you done a fecal test? If notI would start from there. I do one in spring and one in Autumn

 

[LittleRibbie]

Thank you Kim, that answered all my questions, i appreciate it....is there a reason you havent done it in awhile.

Renee Im embarrased to say that i have not done a fecal test on any of my horses in a couple years. I think it was done 2 years ago shortly after Holly and SB arrived...it was the type that I bought and sent into a company...all was well.And then it was about 2 yrs. prior to that when I brought in a rescue...and the vet did it...both times i had all horses done...all fine. Maybe i just didnt want to spend the money...not really sure why i never did another.. just never did it again b/c the were wormed on a regular schedule..i guess....not the best answer but it is what it is

Anyway what would you do... spend the money and have fecal done on all...then only if needed do a 5 day or just go ahead w/a 5 day anyway if its not going to hurt.

 

[Eagle]

I would do a fecal then you can use a specific type to kill the worms present. It helps to let you see if your worming program is working correct too.

It isn't expensive here in Italy as I drop it into the lab and they email me the result, it costs about $10 x horse.

I always test my youngsters as they seem more prone to get worms than the older horses.

Hope that helps

 

[LittleRibbie]

Gosh Renee im thinking i paid 29.00 for each test ( the ones that i mailed in )but i may be wrong. When you say youngsters..?... what age are you talking about for fecal.

another question...when do you worm new Moms? Do you wait till baby is done nursing and do you go right to the scheduled wormer for that month or do you use something else.

Im still contimplating putting them back on the daily wormer but Im still on the fence with it too :arg!

 

[mydaddysjag]

From what I understand, the worms the the 5 day power pack kills will not show up on a fecal, because they are encysted. Im actually getting ready to power pack both of my horses. I also need to worm them for tapes. Where I was boarding didnt do the 5 day power pack, nor did they worm for tapes. I'll get them both on my worming schedule, then just do fecals every 8 weeks until I see that they need wormed again. One thing I found out is that my regular pet vet will do fecals for horses. Oddly enough, my horse vet doesnt offer fecal tests. Shes a mobile vet, doesnt have a regular office, and if you ask about a fecal, she refers you to the mail in tests.

 

[Eagle]

wow great list Diane, Thank you

 

[Equuisize]

Super list, Diane. Thanks for sharing!

Quote "Im still contimplating putting them back on the daily wormer but Im still on the fence with it too"

This is just my opinion on 'daily wormers' so it can considered a good opinion or tossed away.

I don't believe in 'daily wormers'

Reason being is that wormers are basically poison to the worms, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't believe putting a poison into your horses system, on a daily basis, is a red hot chili pepper idea especially with these wee ones.

I've known lots of folks that used them on their big guys with no issues but I am always

re evaluating what I choose to do with my little guys. Since I've only one big guy left

he enjoys the choices that are made for the little guys.

I've already wormed Zaky twice @ 1 month with Safeguard and @ 2 months with Ivermectin.

 

[jessj]

Awesome list Miss Diane! Also ditto on the small animal vet for fecals. My vet doesnt even charge me for it (of course i am in his office 3-5 times a week for my job anyway so that may be why!)

 

[MeganH]

Thank you for that list Diane!

 

[LittleRibbie]

Great list Diane...its much more informative than the one I have.....but like everything these days cant seem to find!!

What i cant seem to remember is the months or seasons they should be given as I recall being told its useless unless you give them in the proper months or seasons, b/c of the different stages the worms could potentionally be active.

If I remember and could very well be wrong..cant seem to locate a State Line or United Vet catalog either :arg! ( Im reading the empty boxes that i date in my worming box)

first of the year say

Jan= Oxibendazole

March/April = Ivermectins except Quest looks like i used the generic

May and June = Pyrantel ..i think last time I used Pyrantel paste

July or summer= looking at what i have here in my worming box I guess I gave them Anthelcide EQ which must be Oxibendazole...I have it here but neglected to write on the box which month I gave this...so I may be mistaken

about Sept/Oct. or Fall I would start back on my rotation again w/the Ivermectin gold this time.. or I have used the generic ..or just different wormer in that catagory

Nov and dec. or winter I would do a pyrantel again 0r something in the pyrantel catagory. try to do a different one.

This would be the time of year I would think would be the time to do a 5 day power pac

Does this seem similar to what you all do?

did i read correctly that some only worm according to your fecal test...that seems alot easier on the wallet but couldnt you run the risk of being infected w/all these worms at once?

Can you tell this wormer crap drives me bonkers...not sure why Im worring now all of a sudden.. the 2 fecals I have done in the last 9 yrs. since minis.. showed nothing..but like I said I have not done it in about 3 yrs

Just assumed the wormers were doing thier job

 

[chandab]

I only saw one mention of when to do a 5-day purge, so thought I'd ask if there is a usual time of year to do a purge or circumstance which it is called for?

I just did a 5-day on one of my minis, he's more prone to parasite infestations than any other horse I've ever owned. I'd like to get ahead of the problem, rather than waiting til he's skinny and I'm playing catch up. This morning was dose 5, and starting yesterday, his appetite had picked back up, and he was more enthused with his feed. I have discussed this some with my regular vet, but he recently retired and his replacement is fresh out of school (while I will probably discuss it with her, I would like more experienced opinions as well).

Thanks

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Great list Diane...its much more informative than the one I have.....but like everything these days cant seem to find!!

What i cant seem to remember is the months or seasons they should be given as I recall being told its useless unless you give them in the proper months or seasons, b/c of the different stages the worms could potentionally be active.

If I remember and could very well be wrong..cant seem to locate a State Line or United Vet catalog either

( Im reading the empty boxes that i date in my worming box)

first of the year say

Jan= Oxibendazole

March/April = Ivermectins except Quest looks like i used the generic

May and June = Pyrantel ..i think last time I used Pyrantel paste

July or summer= looking at what i have here in my worming box I guess I gave them Anthelcide EQ which must be Oxibendazole...I have it here but neglected to write on the box which month I gave this...so I may be mistaken

about Sept/Oct. or Fall I would start back on my rotation again w/the Ivermectin gold this time.. or I have used the generic ..or just different wormer in that catagory

Nov and dec. or winter I would do a pyrantel again 0r something in the pyrantel catagory. try to do a different one.

This would be the time of year I would think would be the time to do a 5 day power pac

Does this seem similar to what you all do?

did i read correctly that some only worm according to your fecal test...that seems alot easier on the wallet but couldnt you run the risk of being infected w/all these worms at once?

Can you tell this wormer crap drives me bonkers...not sure why Im worring now all of a sudden.. the 2 fecals I have done in the last 9 yrs. since minis.. showed nothing..but like I said I have not done it in about 3 yrs

Just assumed the wormers were doing thier job

I sympathize with you as dealing with parasites; fleas, worms, ticks, lice; can be quite frustrating. A significant portion of the confusion is both in a lack of understanding about their life cycle and secondly an expectation of being parasite free (which should not be an expectation, but at times isn't even what you want).

When we talk about doing 'fecals' we need to be sure we are describing the same thing. Most clinics fecal do floats to look for any eggs at all. Far fewer clinics do fecal egg counts (FEC) which means we are counting an exact number of eggs per a given amount of feces. A far more tedious and labor intensive procedure not to mention the specific instrumentation required.

FEC's are of far more value as they give us an idea about the level of parasites within an animal rather than just the presence of worms. In horses, studies have shown that the correct number of eggs/gram of feces to produce immunity without producing disease is 250 eggs/grm. Worm free horses run the risk of lacking an immunity to worms thus setting them up to possible catastrophe down the road or allowing for other worms to take hold that normally wouldn't. This is why tapeworms are such a problem now. Tapeworms are poor worm competitiors and in the presence of a normal worm load tapeworms will be pushed out and not reproduce into large numbers. But, since the 'over use' of avermectins, tapeworms are becoming a problem as the natural normal worm flora is not keeping this worm under control.

Another thing to consider is a worm's resistance to a particular wormer. Since the advent of wormers, worms have eventually built up resistance to every class of wormer, including avermectins. Rotating quickly through wormers can produce resistance just as readily as never changing wormers. Instead, as with most things, moderation is the key. Wormers should be should be rotated slowly, thus allowing some resistance to occur to one worm class but when we rotate to another class resistance should be minimal for a while then we rotate to another.

Worm resistance is produced slower when we dose our wormer appropriately to slightly over dose rather than under dosing.

Horses should be wormed as individuals rather than worming everything on the farm at the same time. Old, young, and poor horses should be wormed more often than middle aged and fat.

Dr Taylor

 

[TyeeRanch]

Dr Taylor, what is your take on daily wormers?

 

[Shari]

Equimax kills bots... the list previously posted isn't really that complete but a nice start.

Equimax-Anthelmintic and Boticide

FOR ORAL USE IN HORSES ONLY

Removes worms and bots with a single dose.

Contents will treat up to 1320 lb body weight.

Indications:

Consult your veterinarian for assistance in the diagnosis, treatment and control of parasitism. Equimax (ivermectin/praziquantel) Paste is indicated for the treatment and control of the following parasites:

Tapeworms

Anoplocephala perfoliata

Large Strongyles (adults)

Strongylus vulgaris (also early forms in blood vessels)

S. edentatus (also tissue stages)

S. equinus

Triodontophorus spp.

Small Strongyles including those resistant to some benzimidazole class compounds (adults and fourth-stage larvae)

Cyathostomum spp.

Cylicocyclus spp.

Cylicostephanus spp.

Cylicodontophorus spp.

Pinworms (adults and fourth-stage larvae)

Oxyuris equi

Ascarids (adults and third- and fourth-stage larvae)

Parascaris equorum

Hairworms (adults)

Trichostrongylus axei

Large-mouth Stomach Worms (adults)

Habronema muscae

Bots (oral and gastric stages)

Gasterophilus spp.

Lungworms (adults and fourth-stage larvae)

Dictyocaulus arnfieldi

Intestinal Threadworms (adults)

Strongyloides westeri

Summer Sores caused by Habronema and Draschia spp. cutaneous third-stage larvae

Dermatitis caused by Neck threadworm microfilariae, Onchocerca sp.

Panacur does not kill Bots...

Panacur® Paste 10% is indicated for the control of

large strongyles (Strongylus edentatus, S. equinus, S. vulgaris),

encysted early 3rd stage (hypobiotic),

late 3rd stage and 4th stage cyathostome larvae,

small strongyles,

pinworms (Oxyuris equi),

ascarids (Parascaris equorum),

and arteritis caused by 4th stage larvae of Strongylus vulgaris in horses.

This information was retrieved from the manufacturer web sites.