Non-fading greys

[yankee_minis]

I'm a little confused on the grey color thing. I understand the grey horse that turns white.

But there is a non-fading grey?

How do you know which one it is? The horse I'm thinking of is a grey pinto and had a sire who was a "solid grey." That's not just a grey who is taking forever to turn white?

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I think maybe a silver dapple would be what some consider a non fading gray but otherwise as far as I know a gray is just that one that goes gray (white)?

 

[Black Magic]

I gotta tell ya... Cheval products make "SILVER AS KNIGHT"... and that stuff puts color on our guys. Our black guys are on Black as Knight and the farrier can't believe it's the same horse. Look at our Avatar... she's back to that black again. Our silver dapple was fading out, and we put him on Black as Knight... (pretty much the same stuff as BAK wtihout the lameaway). and I was triming his bridal path the other day, and WOW... the color distance was amazing!

They have a website... for Cheval International Products.... great products.. JMO

God Bless,

Lynn W

 

[Meavey]

There is no such thing as a non fading grey, every grey goes white.

Roan doesn´t go all white but changes all year round, the head and lower-legs stay dark.

A silver dapple wil looks silver in wintercoat and/or clipped in summer in natural coat they are almost all very dark, there is no difference in a chocolate dapple or silver dapple it´s the same, they just looks different a certain part of year.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

All the "types" of Grey- Rose Grey, Steel Grey Dapple Grey etc are ALL on their way to white. Grey is Grey- it makes me smile when someone is searching for a "genuine " Dapple Grey ore a genuine "Fleabitten Grey" They are ALL on their way to white, the only thing that varies is how long they take to get there. Silver is a dilute and has nothing to do with Grey, whatever the registries may put on the papers (they REALLY do need to get their acts together!!) But I have noticed that Silver + Grey tends to fade to pure white very quickly- look at FWF Little Blue Boy and HB Egyptian King. Some of these are either born white or go white in their first coat.

 

[Wee Mite Miniatures]

To make it as clear as mud ---- in the horse world grey is not a color as you would find on a color crayon. Grey is a modifer that will slowly turn every color white, some times before the horse is a year old other times it will takes years.

Yes there are horses that are the color of your grey color crayon that will never turn white or even fade in the sun. The horse world does not reconsise this color as grey. Some people do not even admit it exsists. In the horse world this is really a black horse that for some reason is more of a lighter shade then what we call black.

The horse that I have that falls into this catagory is an older mare that goes from dark charcoal grey toward almost black. She does not even have one white hair mixed into her dark areas. Her eye lashes are dark also. She has never shown dapples but a few of her foals have. Since the dapple could not have some from the sire it proves she carries the silver dapple gene even though it does not show as dapples on her coat.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Silver Dilute only affects Black on a horse, turning a Bay Silver Bay, Buckskin to Silver Buckskin, affecting the coat in varying forms and the mane and tail are lightened, often to white. I have never heard this "not admitted" It is quite a common dilute and, as far as I know, generally accepted in the breeds in which it exists.

Cream affects Red fully, turning Red to Palomino. It affects Bay fully, turning it to Buckskin. It affects Black partially or, sometimes, visually , not at all, in any case, a Black horse carrying Cream, which can be tested, is a Smoky Black.

As far as I know this term is also generally accepted in all breeds in which it appears.

Grey can modify any base colour, BUT True Grey is ALWAYS on it's way to white, everything else is just a phase it passes through.

This seems to be the bit people have trouble with.

 

[billiethekid40]

Since the dapple could not have some from the sire it proves she carries the silver dapple gene even though it does not show as dapples on her coat.

Silver Dapple is a bit of a misnomer. I prefer Rabitfizz's "Silver Black" because that is what it truely is. A silver dapple does NOT have to have dapples. Your mare is not unusual in being silver, sans dapple.

Most of the time, my guy doesn't dapple either, and never those pretty starburst ones, if he ever gets them they are very very faint.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

This is Cody, he is a Silver Black (NO Dapples)

Of his two Silver foals this year, one, the filly, has Dapples, the colt has none.

This is quite normal in this dilute.

It has NOTHING to do with Grey.

 

[billiethekid40]

I've even seen the silvers with grey manes instead of the flaxen type color.

 

[wcr]

Last year Sandy and I went back to North Carolina to buy horses and found they were calling silver dapple horses grey. We figured out it was a regional thing but it can sure confuse the issue when trying to stay away from grey horses. We breed for pinto so don't want grey horses in our herd.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

All the "types" of Grey- Rose Grey, Steel Grey Dapple Grey etc are ALL on their way to white.  Grey is Grey- it makes me smile when someone is searching for a "genuine " Dapple Grey ore a genuine "Fleabitten Grey" They are ALL on their way to white, the only thing that varies is how long they take to get there. 

500793[/snapback]

​

Hmm I beg to differ here Rabbit. It may take a while fora flea bitten to get flea bitten but.. they stay that way I have known MANY MANY arabs and T/Bs that never go white as in lose there flea bitten and they have many lived to 30 + years of age so that statement isnt true a fleabitten gray is a flea bitten gray and doesnt mean it will turn white and lose those spots. Unless of course they turned white after there death

There are many examples MANY of aged T/B and arabs that stay this same exact pattern of flea bitten they had YEARS ago not changing anything.

 

[Dona]

This problem stems from many people calling a horse the color it is "visually". For instance, they would call any horse that happens to be gray in color....a "gray". They aren't aware...or just don't care, about the horses true "genetic" color.

 

[user 488]

. It may take a while fora flea bitten to get flea bitten but.. they stay that way I have known MANY MANY arabs and T/Bs that never go white as in lose there flea bitten and they have many lived to 30 + years of age so that statement isnt true a fleabitten gray is a flea bitten gray and doesnt mean it will turn white and lose those spots. Unless of course they turned white after there death

There are many examples MANY  of aged T/B and arabs that stay this same exact pattern of flea bitten they  had YEARS ago not changing anything.

500953[/snapback]

​

Very true Lisa. Flea bitten is the end result and usually horses get more and more flea bitten with age. I have never seen a flea bitten horse loose it flea bitten ness.......

We have a pasture full of older flea bitten Arabian mares......and a few stallions and geldings too. There has been some talk, that the color of the flea bites are the original color of the horse. I certainly disagree.

 

[Franklin]

. It may take a while fora flea bitten to get flea bitten but.. they stay that way I have known MANY MANY arabs and T/Bs that never go white as in lose there flea bitten and they have many lived to 30 + years of age so that statement isnt true a fleabitten gray is a flea bitten gray and doesnt mean it will turn white and lose those spots. Unless of course they turned white after there death

There are many examples MANY  of aged T/B and arabs that stay this same exact pattern of flea bitten they  had YEARS ago not changing anything.

500953[/snapback]

​

Very true Lisa. Flea bitten is the end result and usually horses get more and more flea bitten with age. I have never seen a flea bitten horse loose it flea bitten ness.......

We have a pasture full of older flea bitten Arabian mares......and a few gelding too. There has been some talk, that the color of the flea bites are the original color of the horse. I certainly disagree.

500957[/snapback]

​

Not wanting to stir up any problems here, but I suspect that the flea bitten results from another unknown gene added to gray that may well remain hidden in other colors. JMO

 

[user 488]

I don't think you are stirring up trouble at all. There certainly has to be some genetic mechanism that makes a horse go flea bitten and not white (grey). (not to be confused with white markings which have pink skin) Exactly how it works, I am not going to pretend to know. I just know flea bitten is an end result of many greys. Here is a quote on flea bitten greys from Equine Color.

This term describes horses that have small red or black (or both) dots on their body. Sometimes these dots occur only in certain areas and other times they cover the entire horse.
On some horses fleabites occur as the horse progressively fades and on others they begin to show up after the horse has faded to the point of loosing all pigment.

Some believe that these spots are a sign of what the base color is, while others disagree with this. Sufficient evidence has not been documented to determine whether this is a reliable way to determine base color or not.

SP edit

 

[Meavey]

A thing that also bugs me is that some people call their foals grey, wich are actually black or silvers, they could still go grey, but a grey is born any color, mostly even darker, they are not visually born grey, (a very extreme few exepted)

 

[Ashley]

I am one that calls my foals gray if they are. Yes I do tell potential buyers there born base color but advertise them as gray, because that is what they are. If you dont that is where the misleading "its a blue roan" comes from.

Just ticks me off that AMHA wont registure a foal as gray.

 

[user 488]

I agree Ashley...............a knowledgeable horse person knows the difference between silvers, greys and blue roans. As I market many Arabs I would always tell a prospective buyer if a weanling or yearling is going grey and it is not visible in photos or video. It's all a matter of education.

 

[Sandee]

The whole color combo (breeding for color) thing is confusing. I have a picture on my guy's registration papers from when he was only a couple of months old. He's pinto and looks grey and white (not a big close up) with dark shadows on his eyes. In the winter he looks nearly all white or at least a very light grey but he darkens with summer. Instead of getting lighter his face is getting darker. He's listed as a silver dapple grey.

What might I expect to get breeding him to a roan or an all black?