No driving training to sudden driving pro?!?

[Paige]

I recently sold a 3 year old gelding to a very nice lady. He was sold as not broke to ride or drive as I didn't feel he was mature

enough in the spring and this fall I had health concerns that kept me from training. Two days after I sold him I got an

email saying how wonderful he was and pictures of a little girl riding him. The child had a helmet and the horse was being

led and I knew he was really calm so even though it wasn't something I'd do right off the bat with a new horse I kept my mouth shut. Yesterday I got an email asking me if I'd broke him to drive. I'd only found the time to ground him maybe 4-5 times with his halter and lead ropes before putting him up for sale, so I was surprised when she said they had just hooked him up and he acted like he's been driving all his life. Are some horses like this or will she run into problems later on? When I start a horse for driving we ground drive for at least 30 days and sometimes much longer and then have someone at the horse's head for the first several driving sessions. I wouldn't worry too much if she didn't send a picture of a child getting ready to drive him without a helmet or header. Should I voice me opinion or just leave it alone as he's not my responsibility anymore.

I also have another gelding I just can't find the time to train right now and I'd love to skip a few steps with him so I'm interested knowing whether this accelerated training ever works

 

[disneyhorse]

The more easy-going the horse, the quicker you can advance a horse's training.

Especially in the minis, it is not unheard of for people to rush training along and just hook and drive them.

HOWEVER

It is not something I would personally ever do. I like to give my horses the benefit of the doubt, let their minds and bodies grow and learn and give them every opportunity for a sound foundation. I like a TRAINED horse. Not just a horse I can plug around in and figure it's "okay."

I would never recommend skipping steps, no matter what anecdotal evidence you may find.

Andrea

 

[squeaky]

Hi,

I agree with Disneyhorse. Never skip steps in training, as that will make more problems later on for both you and the horse.

amanda

 

[Sandee]

I'll third that motion. Hooking them up and driving them just because they don't fuss is a poor excuse and an accident waiting to happen. They could be lucky and never have a problem but then there might be that one time when the unexpected happens and they need that horse to reliably stop or turn or "think". If he has no training to "fall back" on, then they're relying on luck. Not a good choice.

 

[Keri]

Some horses are very easy going. Takes things as they come as natural and don't explode. I had a mini that I had in the cart driving in a month. He was just so good. I ground drove him and he did everything I asked right off. Whoaed, backed, etc. Very good boy. So as long as he was doing good there, I hooked him to the cart and off we went. Never had a problem with him and eventually sold him to a family for their grandkids to drive. He was just so easy going. While...I've had others that I ground drove for months. They just weren't safe enough (IMO) to even hook. I had one I never hooked becuase he was just so nuts when it came to things spooking him (explode and go instead of stop and look). Each horse is different. I think you can advance them faster if they do everything right a few times in the ground driving. Whoa when you ask, back, turn, etc. Can safely ground drive them where you plan on driving them and so forth. Some horses just aren't spooky and explosive.

Now, as far as this lady hooking this horse, I would drop a suggestion of doing some ground driving with him first as he hasn't ever been hitched before (when you had him). Just say you would be concerned if something happened in the cart. So just ground drive him to be sure he'll act fine if something spooks him or what not. But it really isn't your place to step in. You sold the horse. But I would at least make a suggestion as to what she should do with him in driving training just so its not on your concience if they did get hurt.

 

[Sue_C.]

I would DEFINATELY tell them to slow down. all is well and good until like already mentioned...something happens, and there is NO training to fall back on.

He was sold as not broke to ride or drive...ground him maybe 4-5 times with his halter and lead ropes before putting him up for sale...she said they had just hooked him up and he acted like he's been driving all his life...a picture of a child getting ready to drive him without a helmet or header.

"God protect us from Drunks and Fools"...is an old saying that certainly fits the bill here. I am sorry...but these people are idiots.

I hate it when this happens, because soon or later SOMETHING BAD is going to happen. Would they give this little girl the keys to their car? What they are doing is just as dangerous...Give me strength...

I find minis are sooo oftern taken advantage of at first, and then blamed for being "bad ponies" when they eventually react. Small yes, horses, yes again. Who in their right mind would just hitch a horse or pony without harness training it beforehand...then had the reins to a kid? Gawd...

(I wish there was a REALLY cranky "smily" here.)

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hmm. I think my first evaluation is that the horse is a saint and the parent is a friggin' IDIOT.

I'm sorry, but my "what can happen" meter is going off the charts and I'm having trouble blocking out the visions of runaways and turn-overs and little children dashed on the ground for no good reason at all except that Mommy and Daddy have no idea how dangerous driving can be and how to safely set both horse and girl up for success. Kids can do a great job driving and many minis really are little saints and let us get away with skipping all sorts of steps that would get you killed with a big horse. But to allow a combination like that in my opinion is darn near criminally negligent.

I'm sorry, but I've had some pretty bad accidents even with taking all appropriate safety precautions and I know how quickly things can go wrong. Sometimes the least little thing is the difference between a trip to the ER and things ending well and I don't want my child placed in harm's way like that.

Let them ride along with you once the horse is steady, but don't turn the kid loose with an unbroken three year old and no header, no helmet, nothing.

Off my soap box, onto a more constructive subject....

Are some horses like this or will she run into problems later on?

Yes, some horses are like this. I about had a heart attack when I found out the person who started Kody had taken him from a barely halter-broken four year old stallion to driving in the cart in less than a week but he apparently understood ground-driving in the first session and was bored silly within a day. Knowing him as I do now I have to admit she was probably right, but at the time I thought she'd skipped all sorts of steps and was shaking my head. I went back and did all those steps just to be sure there would be no nasty surprises later but Kody accepted all of them without a blink. I still feel better knowing he has that foundation to fall back on when his brain goes up in smoke but there's no need to spend forever boring the horse to death if they get it. As the others have said, some will get it without any fuss at all and others will spend months stressing out over the same thing. You just have to move at their pace.

As far as saying something, I think I'd indicate that you had NOT broken him to drive and they should be careful to treat him as the green horse he is. After that the responsibility is in their hands.

Leia

 

[Mominis]

OH wow! Sounds like the little man has one heck of a great mind to be able to cope with all of that and so quickly! IMHO, my concern would be for potential legal liability should something happen. While the Equine Liability Laws would be on your side, you may have a problem with non-disclosure (I'm certainly no lawyer and don't know the terminology, but that's the only way I can think to phrase it) with regard to his training.

Unless you have it in your bill of sale that he was sold as untrained, then even though you told the woman that he was not trained, you may have a potential legal issue. People can be really lawsuit happy. I think you should tell the woman that he had the equivelant of preschool education in the lines and possibly refer her to a trainer near her who is good with kids and excellent with green horses. With a mind like this guy seems to have, she is a very lucky woman to own such a horse.

I have very strong opinions on children being around horses without proper head protection. I think an ASTM helmet should be worn at ALL times, even when grooming. It scares me for that little girl to think of her driving a green horse with no protection at all. God bless that little fellow for taking such good care of the girl.

PS Hobbyhorse, you crack me up! "Hmm. I think my first evaluation is that the horse is a saint and the parent is a friggin' IDIOT." That's just great! rofl

 

[MiLo Minis]

Horses of all sizes that have been handled well and properly by human beings since birth can quite often be amazingly cooperative animals. Size really doesn't have much to do with it, it is more in the temperament. Fortunately for this woman (and even more fortunately for her child!) she seems to have gotten herself a very agreeable little horse BUT without proper training for both horse and kid there is bound to be trouble in their future. I would, as has been suggested, let this lady know the horse has NOT had training and recommend that both he and the kid get some just to cover your own butt. As far as skipping steps with your own horse it is you (and he) that will lose out in the end. Some horses take 5 minutes to learn or get used to something that takes another horse 5 weeks to accomplish and another horse never gets it, every one of them is different. If you skip something in your groundwork now you could easily pay big time for it down the road.

 

[Deb O.]

As a newbie on here and in the miniature horse world, I can only second what these more experienced and knowledgeable people are saying. My first reaction to your thread was whoa wait a minute hold on there. Like you said he's not your horse anymore but If it were me I'd feel duty bound to remind them that he hasn't been trained in those areas and that if something should spook him, she has no way of knowing how he'd react possibly hurting himself and the children.

 

[Aristocratic Minis]

I am a firm believer in having a professional trainer start my driving horses. I would not presume to think I could train myself. Driving is so much fun, but it can be dangerous.

When done correctly, driving looks so much fun and looks easy that many people are fooled into thinking they can do it themselvess. My neighbor was like that.

My neighbor went to the World Show a few years ago, bought a cart and harness and went home and trained her pet mini to drive in 3 days. Now, the neighbor does have a lot of experience with Quarter Horses and cutting horses, but I doubt if she had driven before. Their mini had always been extremely smart and trainable. He knew many tricks and would entertain all the neighbor kids. He's an extremely smart and kind horse.

The mini who was taught to drive in 3 days went on to be driven by the 3 children next door in the Stock Show parade downtown with marching bands, big crowds and banners and flags streaming. I am pleased that this mini never spooked or made a wrong step with the children, but I think his behavior was the exception rather than the rule.

It only takes one slip-up to cause a tragedy for a family.

 

[madmax]

You know, this really bothers me, and there is no easy solution, because once the new owner takes possession, it can become sticky when you want to help, but they can take it as interference.

I have all sorts of personal rules in training a mini to drive, mainly, it is stick to the basics, repetition and go slow, slow. Hurry-up is not in my vocabulary!

I am no spring chicken and cannot risk getting injured, but even when I was younger, safety was always foremost. I want my driving horse to be dependable, trustworthy in a 'situation' and he trusts me to help him through it. This must be accomplished through time, but how can you enforce this? Do newbies have no fear?

That said, I had a spiffy gelding I raised, trained him to drive, yes, my slow cautious rules in place, he had great extension and gaits, but I felt he was a little hot, would not let my grandson handle him. Long story short, I had an auto injury and while recovering sent him off to show; little girl met him, it was instant love on both sides, he would do anything for her, took her on a great safe show ride all the way to Nationals and never was too hot for HER.

So, I guess we can all still learn, but I cannot rest easy on this 'instant cart hitching', I have seen enough accidents on well trained minis in the show ring.

 

[Marty]

Hmm. I think my first evaluation is that the horse is a saint and the parent is a friggin' IDIOT.

Perfectly said Leia.

There's one born every minute.

 

[HGFarm]

Ok, have to add my input here... they need to STOP and teach the basics first- I dont care how gentle the horse 'appears' to be.

Years ago, when I was young(er) and dumb, I skipped some things on a horse that appeared to be a real dream to drive and took right to it... until he got upset one day and bolted- and we had a horrible accident.... It took me MONTHS to heal- I twisted my back out of joint, about ruined my knee that had to be drained etc..... later..... and thank GOD the horse ran between two parked junk vehicles and it was not wide enough for him to keep going- and stopped him cold. Bent the shaft (metal!!) on my cart, but he was not hurt, and the cart was salvagable.

It could have been MUCH worse, lucky for me there was no traffic and I didnt break anything (bones, my HEAD) etc... because it sent me about 20 feet through the air to land on the opposite side of a dirt road- and as I said, many dr. bills and months later, I was basicly ok.

I know many who have almost been killed in cart wrecks... and these 'cute little minis' are a lot stronger and faster than many folks think! And the outcome can be a disaster for driver, passenger, horse or all the above. I consider myself lucky!!

 

[RhineStone]

I have been a lurker for a while, not wanting to join another forum, but I really felt I needed to post to this topic.

Yes, there are some minis that are "easy", however how do you know that until its too late?

Case it point, I was training our 3 yr. old to drive. He was coming along very fast, or so I thought. We had trained very easy minis in the past, so I didn't think much of it. I didn't necessarily skip steps, but just did not "reinforce" them, as he didn't seem to "need" it. He seemed a little "bored" with the whole thing. What I found out was that he was a very "stoic" mini, meaning that he "tolerated" the training until he felt that something wasn't right. At one point out of the blue, he bolted on me. I got him stopped eventually without a wreck, but he was edgy after that for a while.

Personally, I would rather train a "hotter" horse than a stoic one, as you can usually tell whether or not they have "got it". If/when stoic horses blow, they blow fast and hard! I would hate to see that happen to a little child because of uneducation of the parents. Anytime I see someone doing something unsafe, I say something regardless as to who it is. Most of the time, they just didn't know and are thankful for the help, especially in regards to driving.

 

[Peggy Hogan]

I about fell off the chair when I read this post. Wow...sometimes I wonder how people pull this stuff off. Despite the assumptions about clicker training being just for tricks etc., I use it for every subtle nuance of training EVERY kind of behavior from husbandry to driving/riding.

Maybe because I don't like surprises with horse training...and of course I get them on occasion anyway, but STILL to just put a kid on a horse without knowing if it's safe?

That's a little bit like thinking a Disney character is real instead of a human inside a costume (hey...sorry if I burst the bubble of anyone out there LOL). Some people just have a bit of a loose grasp on things.

So I hope she DOES go back and do some filling in of the holes, just to be safe. But it does make me wonder if sometimes I'm just a bit more thorough than I need to be...Mmmmm.

Thanks for the post...very amazing.