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wcr

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Would like to know if anyone has any input about getting my filly registered. I have a filly that AMHA won't register as the mother died before she was DNA'd. The mare owner has pulled hair but won't give it to me so I can DNA. Both parents are registered and stallion report sent in. AMHA won't accept vet report that this is the filly from this mare. I do have some hair that came off the dam after she died but Davis can''t test on this hair. Trying to get Shelterwood to dna as a forensic sample. Anyone have suggestions? This is a spectacular filly that should be shown.
 

CLC Stables

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Not sure there is much you can do. Check to see if AMHA will even allow the Forensic DNA as acceptable.
 

lyn_j

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[SIZE=14pt]Why are the owners of the mare refusing to give you samples if they have them? I would question that! that is definitely not right.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 

Magic

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Why won't the mare owner give you the hair for DNA? This is your best chance, and dealing with that issue is your best course, IMO, at least if there is any possibility of getting it. AMHA won't let someone who is not the owner of a horse do a dna test anyway, so perhaps if you paid the owner for the dna test?
 

minimomNC

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Why won't the owner give you the hair from the mare??? Did you offer to pay for the DNA test on the mare? Seems like this is something you could work out if you talk to them. How old was the mare and how old is the filly?
 

Bluerocket

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you can wait and hardship the filly as an adult.
 

~Palomino~

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Bluerocket said:
you can wait and hardship the filly as an adult.
417509[/snapback]

yah but that would be about $640.00 with the DNA testing!!!!! Also buy the time she was 5 the AMHA might be closed! I think it would be easier to get it done right now if it is possible!!

-Gage-
 

bluerogue

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The mare owner is, well, how shall I say it.... not a particularly nice person. I have horses from this person, and let me tell you, if she decides to pick a bone, you are SOL. Thankfully she just sold all her horses, and is no longer in minis. The lady is way out of line for not giving Kathy the hair for DNA. And the filly is truly spectacular! It's a real shame the mare owner is being such a witch. It was not Kathy's fault what happened, and the mare owner is being truly hideous about the whole thing. Since the mare is now deceased, I think it may be a lost cause. I really don't think the mare owner will cooperate.
 

rabbitsfizz

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Was there a bill of sale?? Was the filly represented, either on paper or in front of witnesses as registered or registrable? If so, although there probably would not be come back in a court of law, the AMHA might be willing to step in. They certainly ought to be.
 

bluerogue

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Filly was not sold, Kathy foaled her out. She leased the mare. Kathy is the breeder of the filly, she just did not own the mare. The filly IS registerable.... the mare owner just will not do the DNA on the mare for the papers to be processed. I have been waiting on papers from this lady for quite some time now, so I do know how she operates. Not Kathy, the mare owner. I guess I know too much about the situation, and I am totally 1000% on Kathy's side. The mare owner is totally in the wrong, and is just being a witch because she can, and she feels it gives her power. Unfortunately, it leaves Kathy with a stunning, totally show worthy unregistered filly. Hopefully we'll both be able to sort out our paperwork issues. It's a real shame too, because this filly would have made waves in the show ring this year. She's absolutely stunning.
 

rabbitsfizz

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This just is not right (well, you know that!!) Have you actually approached AMHA with all the details and asked for their help??
 

Littleum

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I've had warmblood friends caught in the same spot- mare dies before she could be inspected, baby is ineligble for papers because baby's dam was unapproved at the time of her death. Nothing can be done. The law (as far as I'm aware on the cases I know about) comes down on the side of the registeries.

You may have some legal recourse to force the mare owner to surrender the hair.... this kind of behavior annoys me, I'd forgoe being nice and talk to a lawyer.

Just thinking outloud and I don't know your specifics....but if I leased a mare and paid $1,000 for it, why would I (a reasonable person) pay that amount if I knew I'd get a foal I couldn't register and couldn't sell for the more then $500? Did your lease contract in any way imply you'd get a registerable foal? I'd take it all to a lawyer, talk to him about the real $$$ reprecussions of registered vs not and see if he can come up with something to get that hair.

Added: Also, if you bring action aganist someone, it normally shows up on their credit report. Just think....if you won a judgement, everytime they had their credit pulled they could think of you and how easily it allllll could have been avoided for the next 7 years.
 
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Cathy_H

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We all know some people value money above friendship so ask her how much money she would have to have to accomodate you.
 

hobbyhorse23

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What a rotten situation. For what it's worth, I have a gelding that got registered after a similar situation. He was four but his owners had never sent in his papers, they just got passed along to me when I bought him second- or third-hand. AMHA told me since he was over two he had to be DNA'd, and if he couldn't be parent qualified he couldn't be registered. Only problem was his dam was dead and had no DNA on file.
To make it even worse, the breeder hadn't sent in her papers upon her death so AMHA claimed she was therefore alive and I must be refusing to send in a hair sample and therefore they wouldn't register him!
Keep in mind the stallion's DNA was on file, the stallion report was in order, the breeder was willing to testify that this was the foal she had raised, and there were several registered full siblings available for testing to confirm the maternal line if necessary. But no dam hair, no papers.

The breeder agreed to send in the mare's papers ASAP so she would be marked as "deceased" and AMHA at that point promised me they would refund me any registration fees if he turned out to be unregisterable and let me send in the test. U.C. Davis said he was his daddy's baby, and long story short he is now AMHA registered for the normal gelding fees and one $42 DNA test as a five year old. So if the dam is deceased it can be done! She just has to be marked as deceased and the foal parent-qualified to the remaining parent and she can hopefully be snuck in.

Good luck!

Leia
 
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Tommy

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This is "kinda" thinking "out of the box", but are the parents to the mare DNAed? If not, see if you can get them DNAed and if AMHA will "buy into" that approach.

Do a lineage check and see.

I am wondering if there is another way to prove parentage by getting the maternal grandparents DNA data, if possible.

Good luck



Tommy
 

bluerogue

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One problem... (if I'm remembering correctly) mare owner bred said mare, and most likely will not tell AMHA the mare is deceased. This way she can make more trouble for Kathi, and this is what is important to her. I honestly don't know if the mare's parents are DNAed. It's a good thought though. It might work.
 

minimomNC

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Not sure if this could even work but are there any full siblings to your filly? If so have they been DNA tested? Now the question is if you DNA a full sibling and compare, would that prove parentage?

And I am really sorry this person feels its necessary to make this such a problem. Why did she bother to pull hair if not for DNA testing. And I would let AMHA know that the mare is dead in case she tries to use the papers another way. Really, if the mare was never DNA'd what is to keep her from sending in another mares hair and calling her registered. Sorry just letting my pessimistic side show through. Good luck and I sure hope it all works out for you.
 

DunPainted

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Even unethical, spiteful, mean, arrogant people can be seduced by a few bucks and a bit of sugar.....however bitter the sugar may taste on the requesting party's tongue. It's worth a try before racking up attorney fees which will cost a lot more than "hardshipping" the filly.

Best of luck.....I really feel bad for you on many levels.

Cindy
 

Michelle@wescofarms

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I don't think Kathi mentioned this, but the mare died after giving birth to the filly in question (within a month +/-), so the filly was orphaned. The mare was going permanent last year, so the DNA request had not been sent in to AMHA yet.

The mare was a maiden. There are many 1/2 sibs to the fiilly from the sire (the sire is DNA tested). There are also aunts, father and her grandmother still alive from her dams side, and Kathi owns the mare's grandsire, which I think could show genetically there are similarities, at least enough to verifiy the filly is a potential foal from the deceased mare.

The mare was known to the vet and under vet care from the day the filly was born, until the final day of the mares life, so the vet has knowledge that the foal was from this specific mare (she was an orphaned foal after her dam died too), but AMHA won't accept this as it is not 'DNA'.

There really isn't a way to account for these issues with AMHA and apparently, none of this is acceptable DNA proof to AMHA. There doesn't seem to be a way around this requirement short of hardshipping this filly when she turns five (which will show her having no pedigree vs the seven generations deep 95+ registered minis in her pedigree right now!

The breeder/owner of the mare is someone I did business with and have felt the repercussions (late stallion reports, DNA issues, holding paperwork, incomplete paperwork, etc) - I definitely learned the hard way with her! As well as her bad mouthing me and others to anyone that will listen.

She has the hair as she routinely pulls hair on all horses she owns if they are leased, travel, etc., so she has the hair in her files (there were witnesses to her pulling the hair as well), she just won't give it to Kathi as that is the kind of person she is and she knows Kathi has a filly that isn't registerable.

Unfortunately, I don't believe AMHA has a way to handle complaints against some of the more unsavory breeders out there or a way to make them perform.
 

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