Need input to make a decision

[Slinkky]

Hi all,

I am trying to decide if I should geld baby Hoot now or wait. I have an appointment scheduled for next Friday. Hoot is 6 mths old. He is not showing any kind of "stallion-y" behavior...in fact, quite the opposite. He still acts very much like a youngster.

I was talking to a friend of mine and her opinion is that since he had such a rough start, she thinks I should wait until he's at least a year old. To give his body time to use some of that testosterone to help build up what he may have lost in the beginning.

I don't have any mares...only geldings. There is a full-size mare across the fence line, but they never pay each other any attention, at least not yet.

So what do you all think? Would it benefit Hoot to wait a while on the gelding. Do you think it might be more beneficial for him given his rough start?

I'd like hear what you think...maybe someone will bring something up that I haven't thought of.

thanks,

Slinkky

 

[iluvwalkers]

HI, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION BUT IF THE VET THINKS HE WILL HANDLE IT O.K. AND YOU THINK HE IS STRONG AND HEALTHY ENOUGH, I WOULD DO IT. I WOULD RATHER DO IT BEFORE HIS TESTOSTERONE STARTS TO KICK IN... :bgrin . OTHERS MIGHT HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS BUT IF HE WERE MINE I WOULD DO IT. HOOT IS YOURS AND YOU KNOW HIM BEST THOUGH! GOOD LUCK WITH WHAT EVER YOU CHOOSE TO DO

, NIKKI

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

I would wait, and I am going to agree with your friend. I never geld mine until they actually start to act studdish, especially if there is no reson to do it immediately. IMO Those that had a slow or rough start will benefit so much more if left intact. You will see a differant built in those that are not gelded early too, those left intact for at least a year or longer-will have a much more stockier built, and they just seen to be so much more mature looking. Corinne

 

[jdomep]

I don't know... I was always under the impression if they are dropped then they got done...I personally would prefer to get him done prior to his starting to act ornery (Just what I would do though but I really don't know about what Corrine and your friend agree on and I guess it does make sense - see I am really no help

: )

Good luck

 

[Slinkky]

Jdomep - you sound as confused as I am.

:

Like you, I had always heard to get them cut as soon as they drop. But I think I'm beginning to change my mind. I can see the merit in leaving him in tact for a while longer, especially since Hoot had such a rotten start in life.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Ohh you guys are funny :bgrin I guess its easy for me to confuse peolpe.

: I'm going to try to explain a little better what I mean so here goes-- gelding is really a personal opinion at what age it should be done, I prefer to wait, but again--its going to be how comfortable you feel handling a intact jack, some can become aggressive and others are sweethearts. I have some old--and I do mean OLD :bgrin :bgrin mule/donkey friends and they always have said to wait as long as possible with gelding. The reason I do wait is because it seems to me that if you geld early there back and neck muscles dont quit fully develope, which is what I am referring to as a differant built--a young one gelded to me always looks more refined and slender, vs one who has been gelded late. Now the reason that height isnt involved and works the opposite is because the bones in a young donkey have growth plates on the ends (the areas where the bones increse in length) Thse close during puberty when the testosterone level rise---when they close thats as tall as the donkey is going to get--less testosterone-- plates close later--so if you geld BEFORE the the majority of testosterone is produced the donkey will get a little taller then if you geld after puberty, because then the testosterone has closed the growth plates. Now--did I confuse you more?? Its basically a built that I notice in a young gelded jack over a older (around 2 yrs) gelded one. Anyone else on here have any ideas on this--Shawna and Colleen where are you when I NEED you???? :bgrin :bgrin

 

[Slinkky]

Arggghhh! Just when I thought I understood.....I don't!!

If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that if I want to get the fullest height out of Hoot, I need to geld early....is that right? I DO want to get the most height possible. Given that we know nothing about his parents, I would like do all I can to insure he gets the maximum height.

Now that said, I don't want to hurt his health. My wanting to ride him is second to his health. But if all things are equal, I will do what I can to help the height.

 

[minimule]

Well.....I'm going to tell you the opposite. All my mules are gelded before or as close to their 3 month old date. Out here, all the mule folks tell you to geld them as early as possible so you don't get the attitude. My youngest, Muchacho, was the latest to geld. He was just under 6 months old. YIKES! He has ATTITUDE! He and Jester are best playmates.

All of my boys are heavy boned, well filled out. Jester, the biggest, has been referred to several times as my mini draft mule. He's HUGE!

Sorry Corrine!

 

[Slinkky]

So Minimule,

Do you agree with Corrine that tend to get more height when gelded earlier?

 

[minimule]

The ones I've had....no. My biggest boy was 25" at birth out of a 33" mare. He is now 37" and not growing. Maestro is 36" and Muchacho, the one we just gelded is only 28".

I've heard if you geld them the body puts more effort into growing than building testosterone. I personally believe that the height comes from the bloodlines somewhere.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Shawna, dont you love a good discussion..when we can disagree.... :bgrin I will agree that a stud mule is definitely not a good choice and that they all need to be gelded, because as they get older they can get horrible to deal with even for experienced owners.I still feel 2 years is the best time to do it..unless of course there is a reason for doing it early. I'm surprised you do yours at 3 months--alot of times my hinnys are not even FULLY dropped by 3 months, mine usually avg about 5-6 months of age, and by the time there 1 1/2 to 2 years old you can tell they are starting to think with there hormones instead of there brain!

: and that is when they get the CRUNCH and SNIP done :bgrin

: I dont even think my vet would geld one one of my hinnys at 3 months if I wanted it done. :no: ..unless there was a reason, and I cant say I know of anyone who has them done that early :no:up our way. . I would think that being gelded at that early of a age would be awfully stressful on them.

: I am sticking with my 2 years of age, for standards and minis,and I will add I have waited till 4 yrs old already too..only because he was causing no problems and acted like a complete gentleman. SO not all of them are horrible either. But I really do think it all depends on how comfortable a person feels with dealing with a stud mule/hinny and the mule/hinny itself. Corinne

 

[minimule]

So far, mine have all been fully descended at birth. This year's boy was REALLY trying to breed any mare that came into heat. If he had just been a little taller

:

: :new_shocked: Little begger....didn't bleed a drop, never had any swelling and never missed a step. He was ready to rip around that afternoon but we kept him in....just in case. I gave him a week and then started weaning him too. Never even really noticed.

I think each animal is different though. All of my boys have been "go getters". Maestro will even cover a mare now if he gets the chance. Jester....could care less. He just wants to play.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Oh --definitely height and bloodlines play a part. But every foal has growth plates and the less testosterone the mule has the longer its going to take for the plates to close. But once the mule has reached his peak with a testosterone level, his plates will close and he is done growing. I know it gets really confusing. I have never had any trouble with swelling or bleeding with any of mine either. My boys are always born descended but they VANISH for awhile :bgrin

:

: -- a short time and then they reappear later.

:

: :bgrin HAY--I got it--thats the differance between mules and hinnys!!! :bgrin

: (joke joke) Corinne

 

[HobbsFarm]

[SIZE=12pt]Boy I'm glad I don't have one to be gelded right now...lol Y'all are so funny. :lol: I have really enjoyed reading this thread and I think I may have even learned something!

: Shannon :bgrin [/SIZE]

 

[Slinkky]

Wow...what a great thread this turned out to be. I have learned a lot. I had no idea the growth plates were affected by testosterone.

I think I am going to wait a while and re-evaluate. I do agree with my friend's comment that since Hoot had such a terrible start, in his case, the testosterone can't hurt anything. And since I have no mares it shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for all the input guys. I appreciate the comments and giving me things to think about.

:

 

[JumpinJackFarm]

[SIZE=12pt]Boy I'm glad I don't have one to be gelded right now...lol Y'all are so funny. :lol: I have really enjoyed reading this thread and I think I may have even learned something!

: Shannon :bgrin [/SIZE]

I am laughing so hard now...almost turning to crying :lol:

Hi All! sorry I haven't responded to this sooner...Great subject though and I have learned alot.

All I know is my E'ore that passed this last May was 10 years old and quite the "sweet stud muffin".

I Never...EVER witnessed him ever aggressive, except with strange dogs or coyotes. He lived with my Jenny's full time and was only seperated from them during birth and a few days after. He was exceptional, I believe

: He was my first donkey and he made me fall in love with donkeys.

:

Hoot still sounds Sweet

: ...that is a hard decision. I really don't know what you do. It sounds like he is going to have a great personality no matter what you decide

: Teri

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Here is a little bit of what I was talking about in regards to GROWTH PLATES and closing..I found this on the net, it talks about stallions. But I thought you might like to read it. http://equisearch.com/horses_care/health/breeding/eqmyth642/ here is what it had to say... Corinne 3. As a rule, stallions are taller than geldings.

Busted! Stallions may appear larger than life, because of their bluster and uppity nature. But the truth is, testosterone-the hormone that makes them act like stallions-also causes the growth plates in their cannon bones and other long bones to close earlier than they would in a gelding. Once these plates close, they seal, halting further growth. Therefore, colts gelded before puberty (in most cases, before they're yearlings) will grow about 1/2-inch taller than if they were left intact

 

[jdomep]

WOW Thanks for sharing that! You ought to put that link on the horsey forum too...

 

[PaintedPromiseRanch]

IMHO geld BEFORE they get attitude... once they have it, it takes a while for the testosterone to settle back down, and who wants to deal with that? especially with mules, since they are sterile and so no reason NOT to geld... with my horse colt, he dropped only one side and not the other, i didn't want to pay for surgery so waited a while to see, he finally did drop the other side and was gelded then, but was almost a year old and i had to stop ponying him as he was trying to mount the horse i was riding - yikes!! of course not an issue with minis but just to illustrate my point...