need advice/help asap!

[angelspeeper]

I have a gelding who seems to have forgotten he has lost certain parts. I got him as a recently gelded 3 yr old last spring. He's been the sweetest boy over the past year (he is now 4yrs old).

He resides during the day with a 2yr old gelding and a yearling filly in a community pen...Separately stalled at night and for feedings. There have been no problems with this arrangement until this past week.

My filly seemed like she was in heat,(but I thought she was still too young for that)so I went to bring her out of the pen to make sure I was right. Well...the 4yr old had a different opinion. He did seem a little irritated when I haltered up the filly, but just stood there watching me lead her off. He waited until I was just reaching for the latch on the gate when he charged me, effectively pinning me in a corner...reared up and started stomping the living daylights out of me.

Nothing I did would back him off. That is until I let go of the filly's lead, and she ran off. Then and only then did he stop, and proceed to herd her away.

Now...I'm VERY glad this wasn't a full-sized horse, because I wouldn't be here to ask for help. That first blow landed right square in the middle of my chest! I am counting my blessings that he is a mini! It hurt like the devil, but certainly could have been worse! I ended up with a broken arm and a WHOLE LOT of bruises.

So my once sweet...now turned monster has be banished to his stall until I can figure out how to deal with this completely UNACCEPTABLE behavior.

Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated!

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

hope i don't get flamed for this

when i was 13 i had a stallion that we couldn't geld yet(he hadn't dropped) well when it became "that time of the month" he jumped on me, and my first reaction was i pushed him and he fell flat on his back. he got up, shook off, gave me a sad "i'm so sorry" look and never did it again. i recommend this if he does it again! it might hurt him a little, but its better than him seriously hurting you! this time it was your chest he hit, but next time it could be your face and he could use his teeth on you too!

 

[ontherisefarm]

I am so very sorry to hear that you were injured. The reaction of the gelding doesnt make sense to me. It would if he were not cut. I dont think I would allow the filly out with him anymore. Maybe it hasnt been long enough since gelding???? I think your boy needs to learn that you are the head honcho and that wont be tolerated. Unfotunately by getting what he wanted (which I know you couldnt help ) it only reinforced his behavior. I suggest speaking with your vet or possibly a well respected trainer on how to deal with your possessive gelding. A way in which no one gets hurt...I again am sorry about your injuries..I hope you have a speedy recovery.... Sorry I wasnt more help...

 

[krissy3]

I can only give you my oppinion of what might be happening , as I have a herd of 3 geldings and 2 mares that live all together. I reciently added another gelding , and one mare went into heat immediatly, so we have a lot of herd issues going on. First , for us it really took a good solid month for the horses to establish a pecking order... and these horses are with another 24 /7 I have 1 big open stall that they share and sleep together in . So , separating them at night then putting them back together in the morning means IMO that every morning they have to re establish the pecking order, this could be frustrating , and stressful for this particular horse. You could try if the weather is warm enough to keep them out until everyone is calm and not worried about one herd member missing.In the beginning when my new gelding was here he would freak if I took one horse out of his group, i guess he was insecure about where he was suppose to be in the pecking order. Now , he doesnt seem to care, and is very relaxed. So I would try keeping them together 24/7 first to see if that calms him down. Once he is calm about the herd, halter him and lead him around the pasture he is in so he can see the others and know that there not going to leave him. Once he is OK with that , do the same with the mare. I think this will help, or at least it would work with my horse family.

Now , on that behavior... When he is calm, and good with haltering him , practice the ground manners with him. Use a driving whip (not to hit him) but as a training aid. Make him walk like a gentelman , and re assure him that you are giving the commands, not him. If he is completely under your control on a lead then he will be that way without a halter in the pasture. Just knocking him over will shake him up a bit , yes, but will have absolutly no purpose as far as training goes, meaning he will only learn to be afraid of you. I think you want a working relationship with him, not a relationship based on fear and power, because he will win that one in the end.

Others might have other methods..Id read through them all , and do what works best for you and the horse. Good luck, and be pacient.

k-

 

[Calekio]

Firstly are you 100% he is fully gelded?? And not a rig? This does sound like stallion behaviour and from a stallion who see's you at part of 'his' herd.. but not the boss... i would certainly ask your vet about getting him rig tested, if nothing more than to be 100% sure he can't do anything else with your filly!

Assuming he is a proper gelding.. watch him with your other ponies for a few minutes and find out if he is in charge? If so he might just be finding the whole 'being the boss' thing going to his head a bit and you need to tell him that actually your in charge and so this behaviour is unwanted and not acceptable.

very hard to tell you the best way of dealing with this behaviour so it might be better to try and call in a trainer who can work with you and your boy and teach both of you.

With my youngsters i teach them about leadership in hand, away from others first if needed, they are expected to follow me.. not the other way round... my yearling colt recently discovered his hormones and decided to try his luck with me at feeding time.. firstly he got chased off.. like one of the adults in his group would do to him... i kept him away from the herd with body language.. once he was accepting me moving him about i let him come into me and then he was allowed back with the herd to eat. I've done a lot of groundwork with him on halter and got him to accept the fact that where i walk, he walks.. but not in front of me.. i have never laid a finger on him as he is so responsive to body language, proberly because he isn't the boss of his herd... i now have a young colt who is well mannered, doesn't pull the lead, moves where i ask him to (i do a lot of work teaching them to move their body away from me... i.e moving the front end only or moving the back end only.. we work it as a game but it does help greatly with them respecting and trusting me)

 

[angelspeeper]

Normally he is a gentleman, with good ground manners. Now I don't know what to do with him...I really don't want to keep him forever in a stall. But at the same time I will NOT tolerate this behavior every time the filly is in heat. I will have the vet check to make sure he is 100% gelded.

Now out of 164 views surely someone can help me deal with this aggressiveness. There are a lot of stallion owners out there. Please chime in with management ideas. It seems to be just MY filly's heat that is setting him off. The neighbors have both big and little horses (minis), and he doesn't act that way when they come into heat. Their pasture backs up to his.

This gelding belongs to my son, so I don't want to force him to give up his horse. But if I can't find a solution to the problem...I won't have a choice.

I've seen so many people help each other out on here, so come on Little Beginnings don't fail me now!

 

[krissy3]

I re read your post , carefully and a few more times... This is easy... Ok the mare could be in season, and being that he is young, and probably the alpha, and without an older gentileman to show him how to behave , you will have to be his teacher. You wont need to get rid of him , and i think in time everything will be fine. this is what I think you should be doing to help him out.

when you go in the paddak bring a driving whip... if he comes near you , you need to ask for your space... If he was haltered I would say give that lead rope a shake until he backs out of your space. but unhaltered means you have to direct him out of your space and away from the gate without that lead rope shake, use your whip. wave your whip, if he doesnt respect that give him a TAP, if he doesnt respect that give him a whap in a muscular or fatty area , not on bone (ouch) . When you have him haltered and out with you sit on a chair , read a book drink a glass of something ( for me wine) and prepare to sit for at least 40 min quietly, when he gets into your spece , or gets restless, give that lead rope a short, quick meaningful shake, just one shake to get him to stop or get out of your space.he will learn after 1 session to respect your space...and attacking you is a HUGE NO. He is a space invader, and probably because there is not a alpha mare in with him to teach him to respect space. An alpha mare will bite his rump to get him away from her, or kick, or turn her butt to him as her first warning, then the kick will follow if he doesnt leave. You got to do that for him , so he will learn. ...another thing you could do , is give him to a friend for a month that has a strong alpha mare . she will teach him herd manners in the same way, real quick, but do the chair thing too, its also a great way to teach him how to be tied and stand quietly for a while.

I think he is just a punk kid , that has no one acting as an athority, so he is doing it himself. You need to teach him about space. As your mare grows up , gets stronger she will probably become the Alpha mare , and be running him off. Right now she is too young.

My donkey bullied a 2 year old mare of mine when she first arrived..

the mare was small , and always lived separate in a stall at the breeders ... she had no idea how to defend herself, or live in a natural herd, she never had to learn. The donkey got so bad that I removed him from the herd, sent him to live with the farmer down the road...

in the month or 2 that he was gone, that little mare gained muscle running in the pasture, and learned from the other 2 that she had legs that kicked. She learned how to defend herself, and how to ward off others when she didnt want to be bothered. Willy the donkey came back, she beat the crap out of him when he chased her, he learned that she would no longer tolerate the bulling, and everything was GREAT.... no problems after that.

Id say an alpha mare needs to kick the you know what out of him to teach him some horse manners .... but you dont have a strong mare... either take him to someone that does , or you will have to be the mare, with your stick , and lead rope, or bite him on the rump . use your body to direct him where you want him or where you dont, just like a horse would.

dont worry though , they are just all young and taking advantage of you. I really dont like the idea of a gelding being an alpha... Its usually the mare,

k

 

[Miniv]

You may be dealing with a "proud cut" gelding..... and if so, that s*cks.

Talk to your vet about that because I don't think, but don't know(!) for sure if it can be corrected.

In the mean time you are looking at teaching the young man some MANNERS. It doesn't matter if he'd been a full blown stallion, that kind of behavior is UNACCEPTABLE!

Carry a crop when ever you take him out of his stall and the MINUTE he acts up, you tell him! (Never near his head, though.) In addition to a crop, demanding him to BACK UP every time he goes silly on you is another good discipline. (Horses don't like to "back" unless absolutely necessary.) Usually just a firm tap with the crop is all that's necessary. I've never used it to HIT out of anger. Plus, stomping your foot while standing in front of him and ordering him to "back".....

The idea is to re-establish your authority. Right now, because he cornered you (he was seeing you as a threat to his dominance over the filly), you have to tell him that YOU ARE INDEED THE HERD LEADER.

Thank heaven, he's a mini, like you said...... Good luck.

 

[~Lisa~]

I was not going to answer cause I didnt want to get flamed but here goes...

First off I have an older gelding who has now decided that if and when one of my two mares (only one shows heat) comes in that mare belongs to him. Now granted he has never come after me like that but he does become aggressive to the other horses trying to keep her all to himself. She is normally the boss of the herd but of course becomes a bit submissive when she is in. It is not horribly uncommon for a gelding to act that way however to become so aggressive is. He could very well just be acting to big for his britches and needs a lesson in who is the boss. Often lower on the totem pole horses have no clue at all how to properly (in herd language) be a top dog. You see that when a lower pecking order horse comes into a new herd often they will be so over the top aggressive trying to figure out how to establish a different order in their new herd

First I would get someone else out there to help you and try to reenact the situation- since you have been hurt perhaps have someone else take the filly out and well frankly if any of my horses came at me like that no matter what the gender - we would have a come to Jesus talk real fast and as often as it took until they were very clear that is not acceptable in any form

I am not sure it will help unless you can get him to show the behavior again as it sounds like on a normal day to day basis there is not an issue with his respect for you or his manners.

He does not have to be proud cut to be acting like this - could just be very unsure of how to "hold" his position in the herd when her hormones are raging.

Whatever his reasons it is not acceptable behavior and you might need to find a local trainer next month with the filly comes in to be able to help you with this on a daily basis for those few days

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

frankly if any of my horses came at me like that no matter what the gender - we would have a come to Jesus talk real fast and as often as it took until they were very clear that is not acceptable in any form

Ditto. I would not hesitate in this instance to put the fear of G*D into him (with me being his god)I don't condone harsh methods with horses as a rule but when a horse comes at you like that he MUST understand beyond a doubt that it is a BIG mistake. For his own good (even a mini who is dangerous will ahve a very sad and short life) I would be bigger and badder than he ever imagined I could be. I would in that instance become a "predator' and remind him he could be prey.

That said I think you might start letting him out and leaving the filly in for part of the day and then switching them. Confinement is not going to help his behaviour. I would not only carry a crop with him but use a stud chain as well until you know beyond a doubt that you can maintain dominance and control. Also if you need to remove that filly in the future assuming your vet confirms he is a 'true' gelding (she really isn't to young to come in heat BTW) halter and tie the gelding first and then go collect the filly.

 

[~Lisa~]

Yep I realize it might sound harsh to some but I assure you I will do way less damage then a boss mare would if a horse were to come at her like that

 

[krissy3]

I agree the behavior is unacceptable...and I urge you to find a good trainer that does not use force to make a horse submissive and scared. That would only make things worse. Please look for a fair , straight forward trainer that can understand whats going on in that horses mind, and help him rethink. I had a wild shetland, native horses in Europe are often left in the wild for a few years to keep them acting native ...well let me tell you it was no fun trying to domesticate him. One trainer tried by force, power , and the mighty stick. This made him worse, he was just confused, and didnt know how to act. The 2nd trainer had to undo the first trainers harshness, and then start to train him , in a sympathetic, natural , way. I dont mean he huged the horse and sweet talked to him, he just said in body language ( that I am sure took years to learn) this is what your going to do , and this is how your going to act , and "see isnt this a better way to live "? Let me tell you this horse went from being hated, to being my most intelligent, well trained, relaxed horse. I am sorry some of you , but putting the fear of god into a horse , or any other animal , is also unacceptable. 2 wrongs dont make a right. He is just acting like a horse, that does not have an alpha to teach him some herd manners. An alpha mare doesnt just kick and bite, there is a lot of other body languages going on long before a kick or bite occures. If you choose to wrestle with your horse , you will surly loose. I urge you to find someone that truely understands the behavior of a herd.

good luck

 

[~Lisa~]

Yep many different ways to do things that is for sure. I always say the proof is in the pudding so to speak- find others around you who have horses whose manners you like. Find those who seem confident in handling their horses in many different ways. Find those who seem to truly understand horse behavior - pay attention to how they interact with horses as well as people since you will need to be working with them Most important make sure you do not have a trainer who puts to many human emotions on to their horses. While they do have emotions they simply do not feel and look at actions the way a person does.

Good luck I think you will be able to fix this without having to get rid of your gelding

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Everyone must do what feels right for them and success can be had by many means. That said I believe I did say I don't condone harsh training methods but... and its a major point to me ...when a horse attacks me (or any animal does for that matter)and it is strictly because they see themselves as capable of pushing me around, IMO that is a dangerous thing for any animal to believe. I doubt very much that the horse struggles with any worries about YOU being scarred emotionally by their behaviour. They relate to us as they would to another horse and if you were another horse who ruled that herd you would NEVER accept being attacked in that fashion with out making your point loud and clear that it should NEVER happen again. Done right the first time there will not be a need to repeat the lesson and strong leaders know that. It is not cruel to make it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that you (the leader, boss, alpha) can not be pushed and aggression will be met with greater and more forceful aggression. This is not a case of a horse just defending himself nor one of a fear reaction,this was an extreme and unwarranted attack. The unfortunate part is that the horse succeeded in defeating his opponent (the OP) and now will need to be reminded at some point by someone that should he forget his place like that again there will be serious repercussions. Again that is JMO .