Neck problem (I think)

[Chilli's Mum]

Hi all - I'd love some advice as I have my first mini and I am worried about her neck since she has lost weight.

She had foundered when I bought her and since then she has lost nearly 30kg. She looks MUCH better overall with her new strict diet and exercise but her neck, which was really hard and thick when she arrived is now quite loose feeling.

When I hold her crest gently and move it from side to side it feels very loose now when it was previously very tight. I am just worried that her crest will fall over but I don't want her to put on weight.

Any advice?

 

[Margaret]

To Help her out durring this time you can trim off some of her mane underneath where it falls.

It will take off alot of the pull, with out being obvious to the eye.

It is good that you have helped her to loose weight, as typically a very tight fat crest is a tell tell sign of possible imminent founder.

Hopfully in time it will all adjust.

 

[hhpminis]

Like Margaret said, trim the weight of the mane and also, you can braid it on top of the neck, kinda like a french braid that will run right down the top of the neck and not hang. Or even braid it the opposite way that it is looking to want to fall.

It is good you got the weight off though, good job.

 

[skanzler]

That is unfortunate. Many times when horses get that obese and then loose the weight they get the fallen crest from the fat depositing in that area. It is great that you were able to take the weight off safely. Most horses do not recover from a fallen crest. You can do as Annette said and undercut and braid, but it will never be totally normal. It breaks down the muscle that runs along the crest. Some horses are more prone than others.

 

[Chilli's Mum]

darn, so from what you are all saying she might not ever get a nice normal topline on her neck because of the damage done by being fat. That's so disappointing and it makes me cranky when it's something that could have been prevented (I know, get off the soapbox now).

I have pulled her mane very short, like a big horse would have and thinned it a lot so that seems to be the right thing to do. Is there any way that work will improve the situation? I long rein her almost every day and hope to have her in harness next year. When she comes onto a contact on the long reins her neck looks better so I was hoping that would help over time.

Grrr, next time I will try to find a mini a bit younger and not so fat! I still adore her of course, no matter what happens to her neck but it's sad that she was allowed to get so tubby. My farrier is a genius and has improved her poor little feet no end so she is sound (as she can be) and is handling her work well. I have her on a vitamin and mineral supplement that includes biotin as well as giving her Founderguard so hopefully with careful management she will continue to be healthy!

 

[hhpminis]

I know this is disappointing to you but if her crest leans a bit it will not effect her in performance.

If you keep her mane light and her weight under control you may be able to keep it from breaking over completely and just lean a bit.

There are many horses in the show ring that have similar problems and do fine.

She is very fortunate to have a new Mom that cares for her so much. You have done well.

 

[targetsmom]

I am glad you have her on Founderguard. I am not sure exactly what that is, but it sounds like a product to help prevent further founder episodes, which is the biggest problem. Unfortunately heavy crests and founder are associated, as I found the hard way 40 years ago when my first horse with a heavy crest foundered. Horses with heavy crests tend to put fat on there first (sort of like hips in some people....) so even if she hadn't been fat, she might still have had a heavy crest (and the pronenss to founder). The Founderguard may help the neck too- I assume it has Chromium and/ or Magnesium in it?? Do you also have her on a low starch diet? (I am not a professional, just speaking from experience).

A couple of other things you might try: Flipping the mane to the other side of the neck completely, and using a one-piece neck sweat that goes from the poll to withers with a belly strap to hold it in place. I think the exercise may help too. Good luck with her. She is very lucky to have found you!

 

[MiLo Minis]

Depending on how well she has recuperated from the founder you might find that correct driving can help to build up the muscles on the topline of the neck.

 

[maestoso]

I showed a stallion this year with a thick and fat crest. The owner talked with the vet about what can be done about this. The vet said that unfortunately once the ligaments on the top of the neck are stretched because of fat, the cannot un-stretch, and there is no bringing the neck back to normal because of this. She was told that if she takes off too much weight, thee wouldn't be anything to support the stretched ligaments of the crest and it would likely fall. She took some weight off of him. He is healthier, still a little chunky but he s a stalky horse to begin with. His crest is loose but it has not fallen. She shaved off half of his mane and it made NO difference, and it is something that I personally wouldn't do. I don't know the science and biology of all the ligaments and muscles in the neck, but what the Vet was saying made sense, and that the best way not to have to deal with this is prevention, which is not always a possibility if you purchase a senior horse.

The horse I showed has been on a healthier, more controlled diet, and his crest hasn't gotten any smaller, lighter, etc, confirming what the vet said.

 

[Chilli's Mum]

I am glad you have her on Founderguard. I am not sure exactly what that is, but it sounds like a product to help prevent further founder episodes, which is the biggest problem. Unfortunately heavy crests and founder are associated, as I found the hard way 40 years ago when my first horse with a heavy crest foundered. Horses with heavy crests tend to put fat on there first (sort of like hips in some people....) so even if she hadn't been fat, she might still have had a heavy crest (and the pronenss to founder). The Founderguard may help the neck too- I assume it has Chromium and/ or Magnesium in it?? Do you also have her on a low starch diet? (I am not a professional, just speaking from experience).

A couple of other things you might try: Flipping the mane to the other side of the neck completely, and using a one-piece neck sweat that goes from the poll to withers with a belly strap to hold it in place. I think the exercise may help too. Good luck with her. She is very lucky to have found you!

Thanks Target's Mom. The Founderguard is a granulated feed supplement with the active ingredient being something called virginiamycin and it is supposed to reduce the riskof laminitis by reducing the lactic acid production in the stomach during digestion. It does say on the tub that it hasn't been tested much on ponies but it does work on big horses so I thought I'd give it a go. Since it won't hurt her and it's cheap (because you feed according to body weight) I'll keep her on it for now.

I feed her cereal hay in the morning with a few carrots and for tea she has a small amount of cereal chaff, lucerne chaff, 1/4 cup of sunflower seeds, 100g (dry weight) of soaked speedi-beet (sugar beet flakes), a few carrots and a small amount of cereal hay. A few times a week I pick a little grass and some milk thistles for a green treat for her. She also gets a vitamin and mineral supplement called CellProvide, which actually has directions on it for feeding to minis (unlike most other things where it appears the manufacturer has never considered that minis need feed supplements too). Once she is in harness I'd like to add a small amount of pellets to her ration but I haven't decided yet what sort to go for. I'm not sure if this diet qualifies as low starch but I do know that the speedi-beet is recommended as a low GI "filler" for horses prone to laminitis. I am very strict with her food and she is not allowed to have snacks or treats (no matter how cute she looks).

I must say that as I'm getting her mane thinner, the neck is looking better but I appreciate what Matt has said about once the damage has been done, it can't be undone and I accept that.

 

[Boinky]

It's interesting that this virginiamycin is used.. I wonder how it works as it's an antibiotic.... I'm going to do some research on it. I wonder if they feel that founder/laminitis is a bacterial based problem?

 

[Chilli's Mum]

Okay, well I didn't know that. The instructions on the tub say,"Founderguard will only give protection against laminitis resulting from the rapid fermentation of carbohydrates such as starch or sugars in the gastrointestinal tract.... it's use to protect ponies from laminitis caused by grazing lush pastures has not yet been fully investigated." The product is made by Vetsearch International and the web site is Vetsearch International - Founderguard

I would be interested in your view on it!

 

[Boinky]

Ok i did a quick google on it.. i'm too tired to do too indepth research tonight (1:02 am), but it sounds logical. It kills off some of the bad bacteria in the hind gut during high starch/sugar phases that lead to laminitis. I guess these bacteria's give off lots of lactic acid increases as well as endotoxins ect. supposidly they've seen a huge raise in this bacteria in horses hind gut in leading up to the laminitic stages with heavy load of carbs/starches/sugars in the hind gut.

Is this something your supposed to feed all the time or just in certain circumstances where the horse may be at higher risks?

My only thinking on this is the wisdom of feeding antibiotics in a low dose all the time.... Many antibiotics cause resistance to many diseases and illness's. I've also heard of problems with feeding cattle grain which regularly carries antibiotics in some brands... can't remember the problems surrounding it but might be interesting to compair and see what the issues are.

It does say it's a antibiotic that works well on erythromycin resistant bacteria.

I'll try to do some more research and see what i find maybe tomorrow if i think of it.

 

[Chilli's Mum]

It is supposed to be fed daily, my mare gets 10 grams a day at the moment. It does say in the product info that it is not suitable for giving in "one off" doses.

 

[Charlotte]

Don't know anything about Founderguard, but don't give up hope on that neck. If you keep the mane very 'light' in weight to allow the crest to remain straight I have seen a considerable amount of 'remodeling' over time. So give this time....as in a year or two.

Actually, I knew one stallion with a MASSIVE FALLEN crest...about the worst I had ever seen and 5 years later it was pretty normal....what the reason was I don't know, but I don't 'think' any surgery would have been used in this case.

Charlotte

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Is there any way that work will improve the situation? I long rein her almost every day and hope to have her in harness next year. When she comes onto a contact on the long reins her neck looks better so I was hoping that would help over time.

It certainly won't hurt.

I imagine when she stretches her topline it takes up some of the slack in those ligaments and makes the neck look tighter.

I feed her cereal hay in the morning with a few carrots and for tea she has a small amount of cereal chaff, lucerne chaff, 1/4 cup of sunflower seeds, 100g (dry weight) of soaked speedi-beet (sugar beet flakes), a few carrots and a small amount of cereal hay. ... I am very strict with her food and she is not allowed to have snacks or treats (no matter how cute she looks).

I hate to point it out, but "a few carrots" at each meal is a rather heavy diet of naturally sugar-intensive treats. Carrot slices make great goodies but should not ever be considered part of the horse's regular diet. At least switch to tossing her a few broken up chunks of carrot instead of whole ones; she'll never notice the difference but will be eating healthier.

Leia

 

[Chilli's Mum]

Aww Leia, Chilli is giving you the evil eye! She does actually only get about two or three carrots sliced up. I have always fed my horses carrots as part of their feeds since we have no grazing at all here and apart from thistles that I pick for them, carrots are the only fresh feed they get.

I do take your point though. I guess what I meant by no snacks was that with the big horses, they might get a carrot when I catch them and one after being worked, whereas Chilli only eats at meal times (except when she grabs a takeaway while I'm working her). I spent half an hour this morning weighing all her feeds and I'm going to do this online diet calculator, just out of curiosity. I was actually surprised how little, in terms of weight, her feed is.

I'm having her microchipped in January so I'll ask my vet then if she thinks she needs to lose more weight and about her neck too. I'm happy with her weight now but I'd like to get her more toned up ready for going in harness.