Magic bits?

[BannerBrat]

Hello,

First off I know there are no magic bits. But I am curious if you wanted to add what bits work for you about the horse they work well on. I am especially interested in mylers, but welcome anyone's experiences.

As for me I started my gelding in a D ring stainless steel single joint snaffle. From there I switched the myler snaffle and then to a french link butterfly bit, and then to a very nicely sized down mullen mouthed snaffle, and now on to a bean link butterfly.

The D ring I had great success with, and I still drive him in, the reason I switched is because I thought he'd be more comfortable in a different bit as he has a shallow palate. But I still drive him in the single joint from time to time due to varying circumstances.

Then I made the jump into the myler. The construction is amazing. Best made bit I have. The amount of money for it is ridiculous.

He works well in it, except for the life of me I can get him to stretch down the bit.

Probably a huge reason I haven't progressed as much as I hoped to.

Yet if loosened the reins I could get him to walk - trot - canter with his nose the ground.

He is very comfortable in the bit. I am learning more about the mylers, some good and some not so good. And am experimenting with other bits because hands on is the best way for me to learn about them.

My Mom ended up picking up a french link butterfly, I decided to try it on Banner, and he absolutely hates it.

I asked a few of my horse friends about it and they had various ideas about it. I haven't had a horse like the french links I have, I've put it on four so far.

So I went back to the myler.

Then at the equine affair I picked up I little mullen mouth snaffle.

Another one of my best made bits, and very well sized down.

I tried it with Banner, and he went really well in it, but it seemed to have too much whoa for him. If that makes sense, I tried it for about a week driving a lot.

And so I went back to the myler.

Now I saw a bean link bit that is new and caught my attention that was a bit pricey but after getting a myler you start thinking, well at least it's not $150!

I used it at first and Banner didn't like it. I worked him in hand and actually worked him with a bit of curb.

Not for control but for longitudinal flexion, well we weren't ready for that yet.

So the next time I bridled him he started foaming at the mouth immediately and acting agitated. I'm sure he would've worked through it once he realized there was no curb but I ended up switching back the myler for a while.

Recently though I put him back in this bit and he's been fine and is doing excellent. I plan on keeping him in this for quite a while unless I pick up another bit and want to try it out on someone.

As far as my horse, he has a shallow palate and a pretty big tounge.

So there are my experiences, feel free to ask if something isn't clear or anything.

I would love to hear everyone else’s thoughts/experiences.

 

[Mominis]

My "go to" bit used to be a roller dee snaffle, the copper rollers really produced nice and moist mouths. But then I got my wonderful Dr. Bristol and really didn't use the roller dee anymore as my young horses seemed to respond better to the Dr. Bristol. However, my 4.5" Dr. Bristol is going to have to stay on the wall now that we have gotten our first mini, so I'm looking around at good starter bits that are downsized for mini mouths. I've been considering a downsized Dr. Bristol, but I'm interested in hearing about what you guys have found that works well for you. This should be an interesting and educational thread, thanks for starting it.

 

[rcfarm]

Where do you find these bits? I have benn looking and only see for the larger horses.

 

[Shari]

Myler Bits for Mini's

http://www.kee-port.com/myler.htm

I started out Maggie with a normal snaffle but she soon let me know she didn't like it.. then the Myler comfort snaffle...she didn't like that either. Finally found a bit she did like and went well in.. The high Port Mullen Barrel # EPB 43 HP. Gives her tongue a lot of room.

 

[Sandee]

With my stallion we went through several bits trying to find the "right one". The trainer started him out in a french link which I was told he didn't like. Then he went to a snaffle and that's what we used for a while despite the fact that he continually slipped his tongue over it. We then tried a low port which he picked up and worked with right away but it was too big for him (4" was as small as I could find at the time) and since I couldn't find his size, I had to keep looking. He was definately wanting tongue room. We next went to a myler mullen which has just the smallest of an arch in it but it did fit his mouth. Lots of dough but I thought it worth it if he was happier. This was all in his first year of driving.

We went down to Nationals and a trainer there saw him in the mullen and told me to go get the smallest (diameter) snaffle that the vendors had. He bitted him up and he went like a champ. Took 4th that year in Western Pleasure 32" and under.

Evidently he just needed more time driving to adjust to the bit? I dunno but now he drives in the snaffle and the following year he took 1st.

My mare I started out in a snaffle and she was fine but now she's starting to gape at the mouth (works with her mouth open). I'm not sure how to correct this so here we go again on the bit marry-go-round.

 

[RhineStone]

As far as my horse, he has a shallow palate and a pretty big tounge.

This would probably be why you are having issues with jointed bits. My guess is that his tongue or lips are getting pinched between the bit and his teeth. Also, those joints can push up into the palate, especially if they are too big.

I would put X bit in your horse's mouth and then carefully feel around in there for #1 - room between the mouthpiece and the palate, #2 - pinching at the corners of the mouth, #3 - affect of the bit on the bars. If the mullen snaffle you tried was narrow, it might have been too much directed pressure on the bars, and a thicker mullen might work better for that horse, to distribute the pressure over a wider surface area.

Every bit affects one or more of seven pressure points: bars (gums), tongue, roof of mouth (palate), corners of mouth (lips), chin (leverage bit), poll (leverage bit or a full-cheek snaffle with bit loops), and nose (if the caveson is attached to the cheek pieces somehow).

The design of the horse's mouth has as much to do with the pressure points affected as the bit design. For example, a horse with a thinner tongue may not be able to hold a mullen mouth snaffle away from his bars as much as a thicker-tongued horse, but the thicker-tongued horse may be totally annoyed by having his tongue smushed. The challenge with bit fitting and changing is to find the bit that affects the pressure points your horse finds #1 - either least annoying or #2 - most effective.

You had asked me to comment on my idea that some snaffles are not any more gentle than some leverage bits from the other thread on the other forum. The design of the mouth is where this comes into play. I have two geldings, one big and one little, that are totally annoyed by getting their fat lips smushed and pinched. This basically eliminates all snaffles. Both work tremendously better on light leverage bits. Both have floppy lips and thick tongues. The big gelding worked better on a full-cheek French Link Snaffle with bit loops that applied a little bit of poll pressure and kept the bit "upright" in his mouth for Dressage, than he did on a single-jointed snaffle. But ultimately he is happiest in his Uxeter (low port) Kimberwicke which is illegal for ridden Dressage. So he tolerated the French Link for those tests. When we rode him Saddle Seat, we used a low port Weymouth curb and a single-jointed bradoon snaffle, but we pretty much stayed off the snaffle.

I tried this same 5" Kimberwicke on my 37" mini (after trying umpteen snaffle bits over the course of months), and he was in heaven, too, but I knew that it would look totally silly to use a 5" bit on a mini. I happened across a 4.5" Arch Butterfly, and he is great! Neither bit affects the corners of the mouth, but probably gives a little tongue relief, and affects the chin and poll slightly because of the leverage. If I force either of these two horses into a direct-action snaffle, both will work but are "irritated", like a kid that you just told to pick up their toys. I think that my mini is so annoyed by getting his lips smushed that he took to that slightly oversized 4.5" great because it totally stays away from his lips. Technically, he would probably take a 4 - 4.25" by measurement, and I had him in both a 4" mullen Liverpool, and a 4" low port Liverpool, which he will use, but again he isn't nearly as happy. I have seen these same behaviors on thick-mouthed Morgans as well. My other thinner-mouthed horses are perfectly fine in other snaffles.

There is so much negativity out there regarding leverage bits, that people are afraid to try them because they are so "harsh", when in actuallity, some horses are "screaming" for them, and are thrilled when they get one! Again, it has to do with which pressure point the horse wants to be affected and the design of their mouths. Hence why there are so many bit designs out there!

(I have a bit collection that mirrors a tack shop!

)

BTW, Iowa Valley Carriage has a good selection of mini-sized bits from 3.5" - 4.5" and beyond, in both snaffle and leverage designs.

Myrna

 

[BannerBrat]

My "go to" bit used to be a roller dee snaffle, the copper rollers really produced nice and moist mouths. But then I got my wonderful Dr. Bristol and really didn't use the roller dee anymore as my young horses seemed to respond better to the Dr. Bristol. However, my 4.5" Dr. Bristol is going to have to stay on the wall now that we have gotten our first mini, so I'm looking around at good starter bits that are downsized for mini mouths. I've been considering a downsized Dr. Bristol, but I'm interested in hearing about what you guys have found that works well for you. This should be an interesting and educational thread, thanks for starting it.

I think you'll find you'll go through more bits with the mini's, they have such interesting mouths that they require careful fitting. good luck! I can't wait to hear some more about your new guy.

Where do you find these bits? I have benn looking and only see for the larger horses.

Iowa Valley Carriage, Chimacum tack, Ozark Mountain, Driving Essentials. Google these names and you'll find the sites, I don't know if I can post links. I have found some nice ones.

Myler Bits for Mini'shttp://www.kee-port.com/myler.htm

I started out Maggie with a normal snaffle but she soon let me know she didn't like it.. then the Myler comfort snaffle...she didn't like that either. Finally found a bit she did like and went well in.. The high Port Mullen Barrel # EPB 43 HP. Gives her tongue a lot of room.

Ah! I've always wondered which Myler Maggie drove in! Thank you.

With my stallion we went through several bits trying to find the "right one". The trainer started him out in a french link which I was told he didn't like. Then he went to a snaffle and that's what we used for a while despite the fact that he continually slipped his tongue over it. We then tried a low port which he picked up and worked with right away but it was too big for him (4" was as small as I could find at the time) and since I couldn't find his size, I had to keep looking. He was definately wanting tongue room. We next went to a myler mullen which has just the smallest of an arch in it but it did fit his mouth. Lots of dough but I thought it worth it if he was happier. This was all in his first year of driving.We went down to Nationals and a trainer there saw him in the mullen and told me to go get the smallest (diameter) snaffle that the vendors had. He bitted him up and he went like a champ. Took 4th that year in Western Pleasure 32" and under.

Evidently he just needed more time driving to adjust to the bit? I dunno but now he drives in the snaffle and the following year he took 1st.

My mare I started out in a snaffle and she was fine but now she's starting to gape at the mouth (works with her mouth open). I'm not sure how to correct this so here we go again on the bit marry-go-round.

There are course hundreds of reasons that horses do what you have said. I find that time is one of the most valuable things if the horse isn't actively hating the bit. Maybe take your mare back a step? or get her doing something to get her thinking about something other then the bit in her mouth. How long had she been going without gaping?

As far as my horse, he has a shallow palate and a pretty big tounge.

This would probably be why you are having issues with jointed bits. My guess is that his tongue or lips are getting pinched between the bit and his teeth. Also, those joints can push up into the palate, especially if they are too big.

I would put X bit in your horse's mouth and then carefully feel around in there for #1 - room between the mouthpiece and the palate, #2 - pinching at the corners of the mouth, #3 - affect of the bit on the bars. If the mullen snaffle you tried was narrow, it might have been too much directed pressure on the bars, and a thicker mullen might work better for that horse, to distribute the pressure over a wider surface area.

He goes fine in the single joint, I really don't have a reason to take him out of it. But except for the french link I put him in he accepts the bit without too much fuss. The reason I switch out bits is because of the feel I get from him, so far I am getting the best feel from a bean link bit. And I have felt around with a bit in his mouth and without. The bean bit he's in now is too much for his mouth, sometimes I can see daylight between his mouth because he keeps it slightly open. I know he does it because it's more comfortable that way. If he wasn't happy working in this bit he would definently let me know.

Every bit affects one or more of seven pressure points: bars (gums), tongue, roof of mouth (palate), corners of mouth (lips), chin (leverage bit), poll (leverage bit or a full-cheek snaffle with bit loops), and nose (if the caveson is attached to the cheek pieces somehow).

The design of the horse's mouth has as much to do with the pressure points affected as the bit design. For example, a horse with a thinner tongue may not be able to hold a mullen mouth snaffle away from his bars as much as a thicker-tongued horse, but the thicker-tongued horse may be totally annoyed by having his tongue smushed. The challenge with bit fitting and changing is to find the bit that affects the pressure points your horse finds #1 - either least annoying or #2 - most effective.

You had asked me to comment on my idea that some snaffles are not any more gentle than some leverage bits from the other thread on the other forum. The design of the mouth is where this comes into play. I have two geldings, one big and one little, that are totally annoyed by getting their fat lips smushed and pinched. This basically eliminates all snaffles. Both work tremendously better on light leverage bits. Both have floppy lips and thick tongues. The big gelding worked better on a full-cheek French Link Snaffle with bit loops that applied a little bit of poll pressure and kept the bit "upright" in his mouth for Dressage, than he did on a single-jointed snaffle. But ultimately he is happiest in his Uxeter (low port) Kimberwicke which is illegal for ridden Dressage. So he tolerated the French Link for those tests. When we rode him Saddle Seat, we used a low port Weymouth curb and a single-jointed bradoon snaffle, but we pretty much stayed off the snaffle.

I tried this same 5" Kimberwicke on my 37" mini (after trying umpteen snaffle bits over the course of months), and he was in heaven, too, but I knew that it would look totally silly to use a 5" bit on a mini. I happened across a 4.5" Arch Butterfly, and he is great! Neither bit affects the corners of the mouth, but probably gives a little tongue relief, and affects the chin and poll slightly because of the leverage. If I force either of these two horses into a direct-action snaffle, both will work but are "irritated", like a kid that you just told to pick up their toys. I think that my mini is so annoyed by getting his lips smushed that he took to that slightly oversized 4.5" great because it totally stays away from his lips. Technically, he would probably take a 4 - 4.25" by measurement, and I had him in both a 4" mullen Liverpool, and a 4" low port Liverpool, which he will use, but again he isn't nearly as happy. I have seen these same behaviors on thick-mouthed Morgans as well. My other thinner-mouthed horses are perfectly fine in other snaffles.

That's very interesting, I know what you're saying now. I don't have a horse with real thick lips, and maybe that's why I haven't found this with Banner or any of the other horses I work.

There is so much negativity out there regarding leverage bits, that people are afraid to try them because they are so "harsh", when in actuallity, some horses are "screaming" for them, and are thrilled when they get one! Again, it has to do with which pressure point the horse wants to be affected and the design of their mouths. Hence why there are so many bit designs out there!

(I have a bit collection that mirrors a tack shop!

)

BTW, Iowa Valley Carriage has a good selection of mini-sized bits from 3.5" - 4.5" and beyond, in both snaffle and leverage designs.

Myrna

Thank you very much for your post, I put a few comments through out.

 

[Sandee]

..................

With my stallion we went through several bits trying to find the "right one". The trainer started him out in a french link which I was told he didn't like. Then he went to a snaffle and that's what we used for a while despite the fact that he continually slipped his tongue over it. We then tried a low port which he picked up and worked with right away but it was too big for him (4" was as small as I could find at the time) and since I couldn't find his size, I had to keep looking. He was definately wanting tongue room. We next went to a myler mullen which has just the smallest of an arch in it but it did fit his mouth. Lots of dough but I thought it worth it if he was happier. This was all in his first year of driving.We went down to Nationals and a trainer there saw him in the mullen and told me to go get the smallest (diameter) snaffle that the vendors had. He bitted him up and he went like a champ. Took 4th that year in Western Pleasure 32" and under.

Evidently he just needed more time driving to adjust to the bit? I dunno but now he drives in the snaffle and the following year he took 1st.

My mare I started out in a snaffle and she was fine but now she's starting to gape at the mouth (works with her mouth open). I'm not sure how to correct this so here we go again on the bit marry-go-round.

There are course hundreds of reasons that horses do what you have said. I find that time is one of the most valuable things if the horse isn't actively hating the bit. Maybe take your mare back a step? or get her doing something to get her thinking about something other then the bit in her mouth. How long had she been going without gaping?

..........

Thank you very much for your post, I put a few comments through out.

I took it really slow getting her to drive as she is also my number one performance horse. I started her getting used to the bit then the equipment in the fall of her 2nd year. Because she had so many shows to do we didn't get around to actually driving until summer of year 3. She drove at Nationals that year placing 7th out of 12 in only her third driving "class". Her 4th year, last year, we drove all year and somewhere during the middle of show season she started lowering her jaw and working with an open mouth. She still managed to corner the Wis. State Championship Mini/Pony Driving title.(no Nationals for us last year)

I know she needs to be seen by a dentist but there aren't any "good" ones here and we are trying find Carl somewhere. Other than that I'm not sure why she'd do this gaping thing. So I was going to try to change the bit not just for that but because I was hoping to get her working in 2 different bits so she'd understand the change from Country Pleasure to Roadster classes.

 

[BannerBrat]

You may find a dentist solves all her problems! Good luck with her this year!