Laser measuring device! Sounds like something the

[MiLo Minis]

There's no need to tell me you're sorry, Lori. When I said I'm more than a little tired of hearing the measuring discussion / complaining year after year right after Nationals or Worlds, I wasn't thinking of you or ANY specific individual. I think you've been around LB for at least a couple of years, so I think you probably are aware that each and every fall, "we" have a several threads revolving around what a joke the measuring is, how much we wish it was better, and ways to improve it. However, it's not that "we" are currently unable to correctly measure a mini. It's that not everyone wants a correct measurement (owners, trainers, stewards........).

I started this thread and I feel it IS a subject that still needs discussed because there haven't been any actions taken to improve things in all reality. I really believe that this instrument might be a solution to a lot of the problems with measuring due to the no handling aspect of it. I didn't start the thread as a reaction to Nationals at all. As I said, there will always be cheaters and nothing will prevent it entirely. If we all sat back and said we will no longer discuss it because we are tired of hearing about it there would be a LOT MORE cheating goin' on though. Maybe you should just avoid reading the threads that discuss measuring?

 

[Jill]

... Maybe you should just avoid reading the threads that discuss measuring?

Lori, I'm just sharing my perspective. Please don't let it upset you if my opinion on what the real problem is happens to be different than your own opinion. It's nothing personal, trust me. And you don't need to recommend or comment about what threads I do and do not chime in on.

When you start a thread, you should be open to opinions that may not be the exact same as your own and expect that people will build on ideas presented. It's not always going to be high fives and echos.

Like I said, and I know many share this opinion -- I do not think the problem is that there is an inability to correctly measure miniature horses. I think that there is in fact the lack of a desire to measure all miniatures correctly.

 

[MiLo Minis]

... Maybe you should just avoid reading the threads that discuss measuring?

Lori, I'm just sharing my perspective. Please don't let it upset you if my opinion on what the real problem is happens to be different than your own opinion. It's nothing personal, trust me. And you don't need to recommend or comment about what threads I do and do not chime in on.

Jill I only suggested that you avoid threads about this topic as you always seem to get upset over them. Of course you are free to comment on whatever threads you so choose.

When you start a thread, you should be open to opinions that may not be the exact same as your own and expect that people will build on ideas presented. It's not always going to be high fives and echos.

I am well aware that not everyone shares my opinion about any subject and have no problem with discussion but you seem to want to prevent discussion on this subject. That is what I am opposed to.

Like I said, and I know many share this opinion -- I do not think the problem is that there is an inability to correctly measure miniature horses. I think that there is in fact the lack of a desire to measure all miniatures correctly.

Then you and I are in agreement.

I don't think the problem is that no one is capable of measuring a Miniature accurately either. I think the problem is that there are people who like to cheat just as you do, and, as I mentioned earlier, I feel that this device may help to prevent at least some of the methods used to do so.

 

[Jill]

Jill I only suggested that you avoid threads about this topic as you always seem to get upset over them. Of course you are free to comment on whatever threads you so choose.

I'm not upset about this thread (measuring related or not), but don't really like that 3x in this thread when I express an opinion about the subject, you've made remarks about how (you think) I personally feel or react along with your recommendations about what I might personally do. That's really not the sort of thing most people appreciate. Besides, if you think this thread reflects me as "upset", I guess you have never seen me actually hot about something

 

[MiLo Minis]

Hi Lori,
Some of us on another forum talked about this recently. Here is what I posted then:

Sounds interesting and would like to see how it is set up, and then what the cost would be, can the Stewards afford it, does it have to be calibrated to be accurate (we all know how levels work) and is it transportable?

Karen

Karen, how would one go about getting this brought to the atttention of the registry? Who would be the best person to speak to regarding looking into these measuring devices or is there already someone doing so? I am thinking that, if the persons working on them knew there would be an interested market for them, it may encourage their development and subsequent manufacturing and availabilty.

 

[Karen S]

Hi Lori,

I would approach Jeanne Bragagnin since she is the chair of the Steward and a director, then I probably would contact the author of that article and see if they would be interest in testing it on our Miniatures and Shetlands for further study since they do have a prototype. They just might be very interested, especially since the miniatures ARE measured at the last hair of the mane. Then I would have them measure the miniatures just like the rest of the horse world to see how much of a difference it would be. We just might be suprised to find our heights aren't that far off. Then if it proves a good point, then I would vote to move our measuring from the last hair of the mane to the withers.

Karen

 

[~Lisa~]

. Besides, if you think this thread reflects me as "upset", I guess you have never seen me actually hot about something

Had to just chime in here with... AINT THAT THE TRUTH

 

[MiLo Minis]

Okay I have sent off an email containing the article to Jeanne and will look into getting in touch with Marie Rosenthal. I will let you know what I hear back!

 

[kaykay]

Thanks Lori for taking the initiative and trying to make a change for the better!

I know when I hit the other link to go to the authors site it said they were still doing further study and would issue more info.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Thanks Kay! Whether or not this ends up being a partial solution I do prefer to be proactive rather than sitting around whining about nothing ever changing. I found the same thing with that link, I am going to try going directly to Sensor Partners and let them know Karen's concerns such as portability and cost, etc. I think her suggestion that the registry get involved with testing would be wonderful and will put it to them.

 

[Jill]

Lori --

I hope you succeed where other, very well organized group efforts have failed in the past.

Personally, based on what we've seen year after year after year and the people just like you who write emails and letters each year -- I don't think anything will change without a few people taking legal action to make the registries accountable to follow their own guidelines.

If you know much about the pride I feel in my horses and their sizable National accomplishments, then you know I'm not whining. I'm just overly familiar with the annual outcry that, unfortunately, always has gone nowhere at the registry level despite some of the best intentions and group organization of some of the good members.

Unfortunately, the miniature horse world does not work like it "should" in some areas, including this one that concerns so many of us.

Jill

 

[MiLo Minis]

Lori --
If you know much about the pride I feel in my horses and their sizable National accomplishments, then you know I'm not whining. I'm just overly familiar with the annual outcry that, unfortunately, always has gone nowhere at the registry level despite some of the best intentions and group organization of some of the good members.

Jill

Jill honestly this thread is not now, and never has been, all about you.

 

[krissy3]

ike LI said, and I know many share this opinion -- I do not think the problem is that there is an inability to correctly measure miniature horses. I think that there is in fact the lack of a desire to measure all miniatures correctly.

Totally agree...100%

perfectly stated !

 

[krissy3]

Lisa , you said winning isnt everything to most of the people on this forum..I am not quoting you , then the next sentance was People show to win. I DONT SHOW TO WIN. I show to enjoy a weekend with my horse , and to be away from a busy Hotel and Restaurant. I pay THOUSANDS of dollars on my hobby, and even sponsor my club generously . I dont give a hoot what measurement my horse ends up being ...as long as there is a class for her , if she ends up a little shorter so be it , bigger, hey , I am double registered , put me in with the biggies . my mare is 33 .75 as of last month, we have a show in Holland in May , maybe she will be in with the AMHR horses, maybe not. I go with the flow. Try running a hotel. believe me its far more stressful then a horse show... there are more things in life to freak out about then a 1/4 inch... Socializing animals do not have anything with measurement ..I know that, my socializing comment was directed to the people that wont hand their horse over to a stranger.Go to an auction and see where the horses that are not socialized end up....on the trucks , yes even shettys. Life isnt fair ... get use to it , try to enjoy your horse and the show even if it measures differently then you expected, I dont see all the fuss.

 

[~Lisa~]

Lisa , you said winning isnt everything to most of the people on this forum..I am not quoting you , then the next sentance was People show to win. I DONT SHOW TO WIN. I show to enjoy a weekend with my horse , and to be away from a busy Hotel and Restaurant. I pay THOUSANDS of dollars on my hobby, and even sponsor my club generously . I dont give a hoot what measurement my horse ends up being ...as long as there is a class for her , if she ends up a little shorter so be it , bigger, hey , I am double registered , put me in with the biggies . my mare is 33 .75 as of last month, we have a show in Holland in May , maybe she will be in with the AMHR horses, maybe not. I go with the flow. Try running a hotel. believe me its far more stressful then a horse show... there are more things in life to freak out about then a 1/4 inch... Socializing animals do not have anything with measurement ..I know that, my socializing comment was directed to the people that wont hand their horse over to a stranger.Go to an auction and see where the horses that are not socialized end up....on the trucks , yes even shettys. Life isnt fair ... get use to it , try to enjoy your horse and the show even if it measures differently then you expected, I dont see all the fuss.

I am currently managing 2 businesses I am aware of the stress. I am also aware life is not fair however we are not discussing the fairness of life. We are discussing measuring issues and simply put I do not agree with you that does not make either one of us wrong just puts on different sides of the fence.Yes that 1/4 inch can mean a horse losing its papers so it is a big deal to me and many others. If there was no reason to fuss about measuring then no one would be having this disccusion

People spend thousands to show in the hopes of winning yes that is true -that does not mean they beat their horses, stick tacks in their backs and do all kinds of other horrible things because it is all about winning. Very few go to those lengths.

I am not going to continue to argue with you over my horses ending up in a slaughter truck simply due to the fact i would not hand them over to just anyone to measure.

If you choose to continue this -please do so privately

 

[Sue_C.]

there are more things in life to freak out about then a 1/4 inch... Socializing animals do not have anything with measurement ..I know that, my socializing comment was directed to the people that wont hand their horse over to a stranger.Go to an auction and see where the horses that are not socialized end up....on the trucks , yes even shettys. Life isnt fair ... get use to it , try to enjoy your horse and the show even if it measures differently then you expected, I dont see all the fuss.

Perhaps you would see the fuss if your horse WAS one of the ones to which 1/4 or even 1/8 inch made a difference? Some people just don't get it unless they themselves are involved in the "fuss", thinking it just cannot be important if it isn't affecting THEM.

That is selfish.

 

[MiLo Minis]

The whole idea behind trying to get a new way to measure has nothing to do with socializing your animals, it is to try and level (pun intended

) the playing field. I don't allow other people to randomly handle my horses either - it only takes one small thing to ruin training in a horse for a long time so the idea of handing my horse off to a complete stranger would not be a good solution as far as I am concerned.

Horses that have never been abused in any way are often fearful and shrink away from a measuring stick giving an inaccurate measurement.

It also isn't a matter of a quarter inch or so here or there, oh well, who cares. We are a height breed and therefore height is of intense importance to most of us. For those who show for fun, are not involved in breeding or just have a backyard pet, no, measurement is not of great importance. But for those who have thousands invested in good quality breeding/show stock and show expense, it is important. Who enjoys paying the same amount of money to show their horse at a sanctioned show only to be beaten by a horse that is not even a Miniature? Who likes to put out thousands of dollars to purchase a "Miniature Horse" for breeding or show purposes only to find once the horse arrives that it is not a Miniature?

It is my thought that perhaps with a laser measuring device that doesn't have to touch the horse at all, and perhaps a camera to record the measuring process for hardshipping to be sure that at least one front and one back leg were vertical, the handler could stand back away from the horse and we might get a little more accurate measurements.

We are never going to completely eliminate cheating and someone will always find a way to get around anything but the more difficult we make it the less there will be of it.

 

[Jill]

ike LI said, and I know many share this opinion -- I do not think the problem is that there is an inability to correctly measure miniature horses. I think that there is in fact the lack of a desire to measure all miniatures correctly.

Totally agree...100%

perfectly stated !

Thanks, Krissy

It's not really a mystery to very many of us what's going on

 

[MinisOutWest]

I still agree and disagree with the last mane hair. I see too many horses with either their mane rubbed off by a blanket or the saddle of the driving harness or by the horse! Mane hairs are very objective, where my horses grew 1 inch and even shrunk 1 1/4 inches at the World Show, it was not funny or fair. I saw marks way up high and way down the back. still too personal when it comes to measuring.

Someone said to me and I kinda agree, we should set the horses front leg straight up n down, a level somehow will tell us when the leg is too far forward or too far back, then it measures straight up the back of the leg up to the wither/ back or where ever it hits, but the measurement should only include the skeletal part of the horse, in other words the coronet band up. Cause all horses have short heels, long heels or medium heels. and this is not a true part of the skeletal height of the horse. I have not went to the barn to see how this works, but I might try these next couple days and see what I get.

to solve this height issue thing, we have got to brain storm everything we can to figure this out.

 

[Sunny]

Lori, I agree that there are some people who don't want their horses to measure correctly, but I applaud you for your efforts in trying to find a better way! From what you've described, I think this laser measuring device is certainly worth exploring. Maybe it will be suitable for our breeds and maybe it won't, but at least you're making an effort. I say good for you, and Drive On!!!!