Laser measuring device! Sounds like something the

[MiLo Minis]

This is an article that came in one of my E mags. It sure sounds interesting!

Measuring Ponies: Laser Device Might Give More Accurate Height

by: Marie Rosenthal

September 29 2009, Article # 14991

A laser device for measuring horses and ponies might give more reliable and objective measurements than a traditional stick, researchers said. Ponies currently competing in Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI) events must not measure more than 151 cm with shoes or 150 cm without shoes when measured at the event.

Researchers working on a recent study repeatedly measured 15 research horses and 38 ponies at home and at competitions.

"Using a laser device to measure the height at the withers of horses or ponies has the advantage that the measurer is not able to influence the outcome," the authors wrote.

A person can decrease the measurement slightly by pushing down on the horizontal arm of a measuring stick, but cannot do that with the laser device used in the study, a prototype made by Sensor Partners BV of The Netherlands.

"What surprised us was that the ponies tended to be higher at home compared with during competition. This was contrary to what was expected," said said Marianne M. Sloet van Oldruitenborgh-Oosterbaan DVM, PhD, Dipl. ECEIM, Specialist KNMvD Equine Internal Medicine. "That expectation was the reason why the FEI allows ponies to be slightly (2 cm) higher when they are measured during competition."

The study, "Measuring the height at the withers of ponies at a competition and at home using a laser device," will be published in the November edition of The Veterinary Journal.

 

[Karen S]

Hi Lori,

Some of us on another forum talked about this recently. Here is what I posted then:

Sounds interesting and would like to see how it is set up, and then what the cost would be, can the Stewards afford it, does it have to be calibrated to be accurate (we all know how levels work) and is it transportable?

Karen

 

[Sue_C.]

I would imagine it would require yearly calibration, but that is no big deal usually. The cost shouldn't be too prohibative, when you consider how cheap it is to buy laser levels in any hardware store...surely they would keep them comparable...they mention people having them at home. Good heavens, look what WE pay for a silly little stick with markings on it?

 

[MiLo Minis]

Lasers used to be incredibly expensive but are no longer. You can purchase home laser levels very inexpensively at the lumber and hardware stores now so I can't think that this device would be any more expensive than our measuring sticks are now. They have all kinds of levels for many different applications now (I did the artwork for a catalogue of laser measuring devices) and they are mostly easily transported, calibrated and set up. I really think it is something the registries MUST look into.

 

[Jill]

Personally, I sure don't want to get drug down by anything negative right now, but does anyone really think "we", our registries, and our stewards are not ABLE to measure correctly now with the current equipment? Honestly... or should I flat out mention honesty? It sounds like a laser would be more precise. It also sounds like measuring like we do other breeds would be a good idea. However, there seems to not be enough desire by those who decide to really measure all horses correctly.

 

[wpsellwood]

It will still come down to how the horse is positioned and where the person decides on the last hair. I think that the sticks we use are accurate, its the rest of the stuff thats involved that changes it.

 

[kaykay]

If you read the article the best thing is the person measuring cannot affect the measurement. Will it solve all the measuring problems? No but its a start

 

[Jill]

If the device does not automatically detect and "lock onto" the site on the body of the horse that is where it's to be measured from (and the same site on all horses, not here for one and there for another), I don't see anything changing. We all know that when you move a little toward the neck, or a little toward the back, you get very different measurements. I do not think a new device of any kind will help until a change in attitude is accomplished.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I don't think the way we change the way we measure our horses will not help at all. It all comes down to honesty and the education from the stewards. At Nationals for example I didn't see much of any changes. I still saw horses stretched out and even one of ours accidently got stretched and I mean stretched but before I could say anything the steward said perfect and measured the horse. If I was the steward I would have said "umm mam could you please square your horse more please". All of ours got into their respected height classes but ours did measure in smaller. I saw 1 person that looked like she was measuring correctly and I know many people avoided her.

Their may just need to be more displinary actions that need to take place for these stewards to take in more attention to what they are doing. If it takes a couple of more minutes so be it. This whole height business really does affect us as a whole.

 

[Joanne]

I read that article to Lori and found it very interesting.

We are a bit of an interesting horse breed where specific heights are required.

I think any device that makes it easier to be more accurate should be considered.

Measuring is fraught with problems; the devise used to measure, the location chosen to measure the horse, the person standing the horse, the jumpiness or lack of the horse, the patience of the person measuring, when it was hoof trimmed, etc.

A friend once commented that surveying land was an art, not a science. Perhaps the same can be said of measuring a horse??

We personally had the same experience that the found in this study; our horses always measured slightly higher here than their official heights at the horse shows.

 

[Katiean]

IMO

you could get slightly taller measurements unless you are measuring to a shaved spot on your horse. I do not think I want a 1/4" o f hair included in my horses height.

Ok let me have it.

 

[~Lisa~]

The issue is not the only the subjectiveness of where to measure but it really comes down to those measuring being able to say SORRY TO BIG WITH NO REPRUCUSSIONS

However that is simply not the case we have all seen those towering minis showing in classes and truth be told I am sure a majority of us that show have hoped- prayed, squeezed in a horse or to into a height break

We could have a million different devices and I personally do not feel it will make any difference at all. Measure like the rest of the horse world and perhaps it will help or at least be a huge start by taking the subjectivity out of the game.

 

[kaykay]

This article goes on to say that surprisingly the horses measured smaller with the device then they did at home. They expected that they would measure taller but they didnt. I know when I measure at home I always measure on the tall side just to be sure.

I know at Congress they made me square my mare up and she wasnt stretched LOL. My mare is very small so I knew she wasnt even close to measuring over. I did think it odd though that 2 of my ponies measured almost 2" taller then they had at a show 2 weeks before Congress. Didnt matter to me as again they were still way under the limit. Did they grow 2" in 2 weeks?? Naw. But this shows how inconsistent our measuring is.

 

[maestoso]

In my opinion I think we need someone who knows nothing about the miniature horse industry to do the measuring, and a different person each year. This person would be taught to find the last hair of the mane, and they would be taught what perpendicular means. The person would be someone who's never seen a miniature horse show, and doesn't know so and so pro trainer from Joe Shmoe the nobody Ammy. The person having their horse measured would not be allowed to speak. They would still be allowed their 3 measurements, but at the end of that, that's it. This would eliminate the need for protests, and any bias or political nonsense. It would mainstream a lot of the measuring.

While I think a laser measurement system is a great idea, all it would do was make it so there was no measurement error, as in, a slip of the finger or the stick not being quite level. What it can't do, which is a huge part of the problem, is require a horse to be stood up properly, only a human eye can do that.

 

[Minimor]

We could have a million different devices and I personally do not feel it will make any difference at all. Measure like the rest of the horse world and perhaps it will help or at least be a huge start by taking the subjectivity out of the game.

You'd think that measuring at the top of the withers would take the subjectivity out of the game, BUT....
I have heard that sometimes ponies....who get measured at the top of the withers, or supposed to be at the top of the withers...actually get measured at the dip in front of the withers. This is by carded stewards that I would have thought know that the top of the withers is the top of the withers. The dip in front of the withers is not the top of the withers, but apparently there are those who will argue that it is!?

 

[bevann]

I agree with Matt.I think the laser measuring device is a step in the right direction.If you added people trained by the registries(unknown to participants)this would go a long way in solving problems.It would be kind of like Academy Awards and Price Waterhouse group.You walk your horse up, hand it off to their person who sets it up properly, you step back and ONLY WATCH , laser is applied, measurement recorded, you retreive your horse, walk away and it's a DONE deal.Less margin for error.This measuring issue has gone on for many years.Time to get it cleaned up and move on to other things.

 

[krissy3]

The best thing about getting rid of the "stick " is that people will no longer be using pins on the measure device to teach the horses (with pain ) to arch their back to measure shorter than they really are, and fit into a smaller class.

 

[~Lisa~]

You walk your horse up, hand it off to their person who sets it up properly, you step back and ONLY WATCH , laser is applied, measurement recorded, you retreive your horse, walk away and it's a DONE deal.Less margin for error.

This would not work for many reasons first liability and then you add to the fact that some horses might be nervous with someone else handling them at a show during the hub bub- Many horses are not ok with that. This would make them measure over no matter what their real height is

 

[krissy3]

If you let other people touch your horse from time to time it wouldnt be an issue...its called socializing

 

[Minimor]

If you let other people touch your horse from time to time it wouldnt be an issue...its called socializing

Touching is a far cry from handling....if anyone comes here to see the horses they get to touch--they generally don't get to "handle" as in lead/set up/groom. Most people that come to look aren't interested in that, and many of them are not qualified--I'm not going to let some total novice handle my rather hot show horses/ponies--and my horse savvy friends are generally busy with their own horses & events & don't have time to come over and handle my horses, just as I don't have time to go over & handle theirs.
So, I do not "socialize" my horses to the point where they would be comfortable being handled by a stranger at a show. I will turn some of them over to someone else to handle in a class, but that's different than expecting the horse to stand quietly and not be tensed up for measuring. Actually even having someone else handle a horse in a class for me can go not so well--some people show very differently than I do, and the horses aren't used to that style of showing.

So yeah, I would have an issue with turning my horses over to a stranger for measuring. They probably wouldn't measure over because of it, because I'm not showing any that are quite that close to being too tall, but I can see where that would be an issue for some horses. The liability is also a problem. If I'm handling my horse I'm totally responsible for his actions; if someone else is handling him & because of handler error causes an accident I wouldn't appreciate being held responsible for the accident just because I'm owner of the horse. Yes, I'll let others handle my horses, but only when I choose that handler.