Just a thought about the AMHA "over" sized horses

[nightflight]

For what it's worth my thougths on the "oversize" debate,

If anyone ever said breeding quality animals was easy, what they were saying was somewhat less than the truth.

It strikes me as really strange that there are no rules in any of the miniature horse registries that require a horse to have straight legs or an even bite, but we have all culled animals from our breeding program because they lacked these things (we have the standard to shoot for, but it's not required). However, all of the registries have height requirements that MUST be met.... yet people want to breed bigger horses because they are perfect except for being "oversize", not "cull" horses.

If a breeder isn't willing to cull a horse for being in violation of the ONE requirement that the AMHA/AMHR/WC etc... has, how dedicated are they to breeding the best possible miniature horse? It's not supposed to be easy, but we all make mistakes and have to rethink our direction from time to time. I would rather learn from my mistakes and try to do better the next time than to lower the bar to make that mistake an acceptable option.

Regards!

 

[Cathy_H]

because some AMHA members are wanting a place to put their oversize horse withour it losing it's pedigree which it does when hardshipping into AMHR

.... Then would not the smart thing for AMHR to do is let the horses keep their pedigree? Talk about a growth spurt! .................. Regarding the AMHA memberships - I think a lot of us have been patiently waiting to see what AMHA is going to do - giving them that second chance. At the same time we were waiting for AMHR to improve which it has. A time will come when a lot of members won't desire to belong to both................................... Now lets see the numbers for exhibitors at AMHA shows! ........ Read the second paragraph in the latest MHW - page 10 writtten by O'Connell/ Treasurer........"

Revenue continues to run uder the plan driven by numerous factors including a reduction in the number of members (and horses) showing at our shows. This appears to be an industry (equine breeds ) wide phenomenon ( with a few exceptions). We're looking at different ways to increase attendance

-....... Well here's a unique never heard of suggestion -

: how about starting with measuring correctly at the shows!

:

 

[Buckskin gal]

No truer words could be said

:

For what it's worth my thougths on the "oversize" debate,

If anyone ever said breeding quality animals was easy, what they were saying was somewhat less than the truth.

If a breeder isn't willing to cull a horse for being in violation of the ONE requirement that the AMHA/AMHR/WC etc... has, how dedicated are they to breeding the best possible miniature horse? It's not supposed to be easy, but we all make mistakes and have to rethink our direction from time to time. I would rather learn from my mistakes and try to do better the next time than to lower the bar to make that mistake an acceptable option.

Regards!

 

[brookhaven]

I've been reading all the posts on this topic and here's my thoughts. Mona asked us to "think outside the box", so...

Instead of AMHA trying to keep up with AMHR by adding another registry, why not be a trend-setter. Start with 2008 (it will take at least that long to gain acceptance) and MEASURE THE HORSE FROM THE WITHERS, allow the height up to 36" (which would STILL be @34", so not upsetting the "standard of perfection"), anything between 36 to 38 will be allowed as Breeding Stock. Foals from parents that are BOTH breeding stock cannot be registered but foals from ONE parent of breeding stock may be, but will lose papers if they go over. (Okay, so we're back at square one). Breeding two "Breeding stock horses" together will only increase the likelihood of "Over" foals on down the line..the ole "throwback" line. But throwing out an Over horse who comes from a long line of Under horses does seem defeating, IF those horses truly wouldn't throw "overs." We don't need to do the same as AMHR, let's be different!

OR....

Let AMHA start a trend by keeping the 34" standard and measuring at the bottom of the withers! That's where everyone who tries to "extend" the mane wants them to be measured anyway (LOL!)

and it would cut out all these frivolous mane extending techniques.

OR...

Let you enter whatever height class you want to be in. No pre-measuring. You go in, the judge(s) place the class and all ribbon winners are measured in the class in front of everyone! Might cut down on some of those temper tantrums or at least might make for interesting observations!!! If you want to pre-measure your horse, you have that option as well, and will be excluded from embarrassing yourself in the class.

In summary, I have no oposition to allowing Breeding Stock and think it is a good idea, because I have known of way too many small horses that have thrown over foals. Some say, well if they go over...go AMHR. That shouldn't be necessary. If you like the registry you're in, why do you need to join another. (Let me add that I am a member of both and am slowly double registering all of my horses).

Would also like to add my thanks to Ronnie for all of his diligence and participation in trying to better AMHA :aktion033: and that I second Rabitsfizz.....POSTAL VOTING or at least INTERNET BROADCAST OF MEETING WITH INTERNET VOTING :aktion033: . Totally unfair for those who cannot attend the meeting not to have a say and to rely on your regional director, I think, gets lost in the shuffle...

Backing away now.... :saludando:

 

[chandab]

because some AMHA members are wanting a place to put their oversize horse withour it losing it's pedigree which it does when hardshipping into AMHR

.... Then would not the smart thing for AMHR to do is let the horses keep their pedigree?

Keeping the pedigree shouldn't be that difficult.

I bred my AQHA mare to an APHA stallion, the resulting APHA filly has her AQHA heritage right on her papers, no problem. So, I don't see what it wouldn't work for AMHR; just designate the AMHA parents with AMHA added after their name on the papers.

:

 

[Buckskin gal]

Hi chanda, AMHR won't let us use the AMHA pedigree on thier certificates. Yes we can write up our own pedigree for the horse but when harshipping from AMHA into AMHR they have not allowed the use of the AMHA pedigree on the certificates. Hope I made that understandable. Mary

because some AMHA members are wanting a place to put their oversize horse withour it losing it's pedigree which it does when hardshipping into AMHR

.... Then would not the smart thing for AMHR to do is let the horses keep their pedigree?

Keeping the pedigree shouldn't be that difficult.

I bred my AQHA mare to an APHA stallion, the resulting APHA filly has her AQHA heritage right on her papers, no problem. So, I don't see what it wouldn't work for AMHR; just designate the AMHA parents with AMHA added after their name on the papers.

:

 

[chandab]

Hi chanda, AMHR won't let us use the AMHA pedigree on thier certificates. Yes we can write up our own pedigree for the horse but when harshipping from AMHA into AMHR they have not allowed the use of the AMHA pedigree on the certificates. Hope I made that understandable. Mary

I realize they don't, just commenting that it wouldn't be that hard to accomplish (they apparently just dont want to).

 

[rabbitsfizz]

This "not using pedigree" thing is the one that annoys me most.

It is childish and stupid and should be the one thing these two registries should get ironed out straight away.

It is what ALL the members of both societies want, I would have thought without exception, therefore it should have been done.

What really gets up my nose is the way the BODs (of ANY society) think they have the right to make decisions that do not reflect the members because they "know better" that is NOT what they were elected for, not at all.

ALL of the important stuff should be voted on, by every member who wishes, not just the elitist few who are able to get to meetings.

I am a member, I should have a vote.

I want one, so, I would think , does every member.

WHY has this not been implemented??

What are they scared of??

Everyone wants the pedigrees of their animals on the papers, WHY is this not done??

What actually happened to "democracy"??

Measuring is slightly different.

I appreciate that not everyone wants measuring to the top of the withers.

Measuring to the bottom of the withers- and again this varies so much from horse to horse it would put you back at square one, is not done in ANY society.

You either measure to the top of the withers like every other society in the world or you continue to carry on with this farce that makes a horse appear to be a lot smaller than it actually is.

Then there is the measuring itself- wherever it is done to.

Almost everyone that has given an opinion, whenever it has come up on this Forum, has said they would like to see it being done properly- SO why is this not happening??

Why is the AMHA faffing around trying to start a new registry- that has not been requested, when it has consistently failed to address MAJOR issues required by members?????

 

[Southern_Heart]

quote(Hi chanda, AMHR won't let us use the AMHA pedigree on thier certificates. Yes we can write up our own pedigree for the horse but when harshipping from AMHA into AMHR they have not allowed the use of the AMHA pedigree on the certificates. Hope I made that understandable. Mary)

I hate to differ on that one, or maybe I just got lucky! As when I had my Duke from AMHA brought over to AMHR... AMHR put the parents on his pedigree with the AMHA names and stating as so! So at least it shows who his parents are on the AMHR papers!

It reads on my AMHR papers.

AMHA: Flying W Farms Blue Quo Vadis 33.0 for the Sire

AMHA: Starlites Wendy 29.50 for the Dam.

If you would like to see the AMHR papers I will gladly get a picture and post here!

Joyce

 

[HGFarm]

I also got the parents put on AMHR papers on one.... and Brookhaven, you have some GREAT ideas!! Allow to 36 and the rest are breeding stock!!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

This "not using pedigree" thing is the one that annoys me most.

It is childish and stupid and should be the one thing these two registries should get ironed out straight away.

It is what ALL the members of both societies want, I would have thought without exception, therefore it should have been done.

Well while it would be nice why on earth should we expect it? They are two different compaines two different registries i don't know many buisnesses that share paperwork

Heck AMHA doesnt even allow R horses to come in on there paperwork yet somehow we expect AMHR to take over all the pedigrees that by the way they have no data base for and count that.

It would be like the QH registry accepting a full pedigree on a Welsh Pony.. while I do realize that both of our registies deal with the same "breed" that doesnt mean it is even right for them to share pedigrees. Especially ones they have no data base for and really no way of checking or not JMO

 

[HGFarm]

No pedigree bothers me on the imported horses also.... look at Chianti and some of the others that were imported (our neighbor had one from Holland) and the pedigrees were not honored...

It could at least be noted 'Holland import' or SOMEthing to indicate that it was not just a hardshipped horse that no one knows where it came from...

 

[Buckskin gal]

That is interesting because I too have seen on certain AMHR certifcates, names which refer to AMHA and yet when I registered my AMHA colt with AMHR they totally wiped out his AMHA pedigree

: This will be something to find out why it is different for some than others!

: Hopefully someone in the AMHR office is on the forum today, reads this and gives an explanation. Mary

P.S.No proof needed from you because I have no reason not to believe you.

quote(Hi chanda, AMHR won't let us use the AMHA pedigree on thier certificates. Yes we can write up our own pedigree for the horse but when harshipping from AMHA into AMHR they have not allowed the use of the AMHA pedigree on the certificates. Hope I made that understandable. Mary)

I hate to differ on that one, or maybe I just got lucky! As when I had my Duke from AMHA brought over to AMHR... AMHR put the parents on his pedigree with the AMHA names and stating as so! So at least it shows who his parents are on the AMHR papers!

It reads on my AMHR papers.

AMHA: Flying W Farms Blue Quo Vadis 33.0 for the Sire

AMHA: Starlites Wendy 29.50 for the Dam.

If you would like to see the AMHR papers I will gladly get a picture and post here!

Joyce

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yep... and over twenty three years ago when I got shirty with AMHA about Rabbits pedigree they put it on.

I am not being uneven handed- I DO think it should work both ways, of course it should!!!