Is it possible to give too many vaccinations?

[shorthorsemom]

The pros do not recommend not to vaccinate, but to vaccinate initially, don't bolus rabies and other shots, do vaccinations on a less frequent basis such as every 3-4 years....and titer if you can (easily done on dogs). We do not have the data on our horses yet, but need it desperately, but this is a big bucks business for equine vets. The data is already out there for dogs and the recommendations have already come down to the vets from the highest levels, so if you have a dog vet still insisting on yearly vaccines, they are just in it for the money and not the dogs health.

I do vaccinate, but very limited after they are vaccinated initially and never bolus the vaccines. I will always regret taking my vets recommendations of vaccinating a 15 year old pony I was given. The pony got everything under the sun and was vaccinated monthly for three months as recommended by the vaccine manuf. This pony developed cushings and foundered and then that "qualified vet" gave the pony too much bute to deal with the pain and killed the pony. I will never again listen to the logic of that kind of vaccination schedule from a vet. No vaccinations are too extreem and risky, but vaccinating every year for everything is just as risky in my opinion. For those of us who do not travel, vaccinating yearly is just not necessary.

Also, if you have a geriatric animal that has received vaccinations in their lifetime, stop the shots.... much worse on older animals to take this risk.

Best wishes... Bottom line, do what you are comfortable with, but please do the research and be educated on the risks from both sides...

 

[Margaret]

I agree with the previous poster in that far too many people are willing to blindly agree with the veterinarians that get funded from the vaccine system..

Educating yourself/ is helpful in making the right decision with anything.

A good eye opening article to read up on regarding some myths about vaccines, could be googled at Dispelling Vaccine myths by Alan Phillips Although there are many others that are similarly documented from other sources.

 

[wildoak]

Also, if you have a geriatric animal that has received vaccinations in their lifetime, stop the shots.... much worse on older animals to take this risk.

My older QH mare did not have a vaccine in at least the last 10 yrs of her life. We lost her last year - at 30 - but aside from some arthritis she was always very healthy, never even a sniffle. I discussed this with an Intervet rep at a seminar, she of course in so many words told me that was ridiculous, that she could not build immunity over a lifetime of vaccinations. So much of this we don't know for sure.

Jan

 

[disneyhorse]

I vaccinate... just because the disease is generally much worse.

My cats are not vaccinated (had initial vaccinations when I got them) because they are indoor cats in a one bedroom apartment. Since they don't go outside, are on the second floor, and no way to get contact with other animals I don't bother.

My horses are done annually. If I have a horse that is showing heavily, it will get 6month boosters for a few things, like flu/rhino. If the show season is short, they just get vaccinated annually right before the show season.

I haven't vaccinated for Rabies. Not really in a rural area with the horses.

My vet is pretty adamant about needing tetanus every year... routine things like cuts, teeth floating, etc. he says is very risky to not have tetanus.

Andrea

 

[user 3234]

Thank you for all of the input. My husband and I live in an area where there has been reported Rabies cases in the wildlife, so not giving the Rabies shot is not an option. Since the Rabies shot is given once a year by a vet with a physical (required by our state law). I feel this is being proactive and a preventative mesure that our minis are examed by a vet at least once a year. The Rabies shot is only given once a year and at a different time from any other vaccination.

Since I was concerned about giving too many vaccinations at one time. I choose to go with a five in one that covers most of the vaccines in one shot. I have tried several different products and the Intervet Prestige V vaccine has been given with with no side affects for several years. Other brands I have tried has caused swelling and soreness for several days.

My only concern was giving the Intervet Prestige V twice a year. I now think this is one too many times and will scale down to once a year in the fall.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

That would be a mistake. The reason they suggest twice a year is because some components of the vaccine are only effective for six months. Tentus is good for a year, but WEE/EEE/flu/rhino/etc are good for six months (or less!! Flu/Rhino are good for three months). Many people only do these once a year, in northern climates that have a true winter. But they do them in the spring, to get the best protection in the bug season. If you do them in the fall, and live in a temperate climate, your vaccine will be wearing off right as its most needed. If you choose to do the vaccine once a year, do it in the spring, not the fall.

 

[shorthorsemom]

That would be a mistake. The reason they suggest twice a year is because some components of the vaccine are only effective for six months. Tentus is good for a year, but WEE/EEE/flu/rhino/etc are good for six months (or less!! Flu/Rhino are good for three months). Many people only do these once a year, in northern climates that have a true winter. But they do them in the spring, to get the best protection in the bug season. If you do them in the fall, and live in a temperate climate, your vaccine will be wearing off right as its most needed. If you choose to do the vaccine once a year, do it in the spring, not the fall.

Honestly without titers and research the suggestion by the vaccine manuf. that their vaccine is only effective for 6 months is not backed by science but rather by lack of data. They are not allowed extend the recommendations of their vaccine without the data and titer information, so they give a short schedule. That is why we need the research. I hope they start doing the research soon on the horses like they have done on the dogs. So many vets rip us off on our dogs. My mothers vet refused to giver her a 3 year Rabies certificate, saying that they vaccinate yearly for Rabies (the 3 year shot is the same as the 1 year shot, just a certificate difference). This is in Delaware where a 3 year vaccine is accepted as normal and standard practice. This is for a senior citizen on limited income with a bishon that is leash walked and brought right back into the house, never runs loose. Every time this dog is vaccinated, within 2 weeks (for 3 years in a row) the dog gets very sick, must go into the vet hospital for extended stay and cost my mother about $700 in vet bills. Small town, one vet, really a crime... how sad. Dog gets hot spots for about 3 months following the shots too, obviously a dog that is reactive to the shots.

A friend of mine had a dog that also reacted badly every time he was vaccinated. They stopped the shots and began to titer. The dog went 10 years without a single vaccine except Rabies every 3 years, however when titered this dog had levels much higher than recommended 10 years past his last vaccination. Dog lived to be 17.

My horse vet is only just now accepting and agreeing with a reduced vaccination schedule so minds are opening up there. I would be afraid to elimate vaccines all together, and if I were showing and exposed to many other animals, I might rethink my reduced vaccine decisions. I do think some animals titer easily and then when you vaccinate an animal with a high titer then they react. My one mini got an eye infection within a week of vaccinations every year, we still vaccinate him, but only do one shot at a time now and a separate each shot at least 1-3 months.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Believe it or not there is research to determine intervals for vaccinations, based on averages. Vaccines are getting more advanced and are lasting longer (remember when flu shots only lasted 2 months? Now they have a 12mo vaccine available). The reason they don't do titers is because the titers cost more than the vaccines do! Why spend $30 for a titer, when the shot is $5? And has shown no evidence of the problems that dogs and humans have?

 

[shorthorsemom]

Believe it or not there is research to determine intervals for vaccinations, based on averages. Vaccines are getting more advanced and are lasting longer (remember when flu shots only lasted 2 months? Now they have a 12mo vaccine available). The reason they don't do titers is because the titers cost more than the vaccines do! Why spend $30 for a titer, when the shot is $5? And has shown no evidence of the problems that dogs and humans have?

http://www.headshaking.com/ourview.htm

One of thousands of available articles on over vaccination in horses. The titer cost is minimal to the damage done by a $5 yearly vaccine. Actually you do not need to titer yearly if you believe the research that is readily available. The latest research is that over vaccination in horses contributes to insulin resistance, cushings, headshaking syndrome and countless other issues. Costly and heartbreaking. There has never been a documented case of Rabies in a horse that has received at least 2 rabies shots in its lifetime.

The research is out there that the vaccine titers last much longer than thought, not that the shots are lasting longer, but that we were ignorant on what we were really doing to our animals. Vaccinating an animal with adequate and decent titer levels is dangerous and counterproductive. It is not a better vaccine they are making, but rather a knowledge of what we are actually doing to our pets immune systems. The statistics are alarming enough for the american veterinarian association to send recommendations for reduction in vaccination protocols.. cheers

 

[krissy3]

I met Jean Dodd after her daughter died (if its the same person) I cut off her long hair so she could go through the grieving process. (Indian ritual) She is an interesting person to talk to and very intelligent.I am leaning more towards homeopathy (sp?) for my horses and for myself. I have mixed feelings about this issue, but I purchased a 20 year old QH from Pat Parelli s ex, and Raven never had a vaccine a day in her life. She is 26 now going on 10... strong , fit and healthy, she also lived in a huge pasture at least 50 or so acres all her life. I also have a 30 year old Donkey, no shots either, he is in great health. I do vaccinate my shetlands and american miniature though , but only 1 x per year and its a 3 way I believe, its in a different language. we dont have west nile here, so we dont vaccinate for it .I think its an individual decission...if your traveling a lot with your horses and they are exposed to a lot , then you have to protect them against the horses that are not as well cared for and may be sick. If you have a horse that is healthy, lives a healthy lifestyle, minimal stress, and good feed and water, then your probably OK with giving the minimum or nothing at all. I dont think there is an answer for this one.

 

[kaykay]

Some forum members may remember years ago when my vet gave the Fort Dodge 5 in 1 with West Nile. My friend ginny was there and we both questioned the vet on weather it was safe. He said it was. Well a few hours later I had an entire herd of horses reacting (12) Two were very very bad. OUr stallion at the time went temporarily sterile. Ultimately Ft Dodge ended up paying all my vet bills but I learned a hard lesson. Ft Dodge even said that miniatures should not get the 5 in 1 that it was too much for them. (of course that is not what the info with the shot said) To this day Patches (my largest Shetland that reacted worse then the minis) can never have a shot of any kind (which is why she retired from showing) We tried just giving her Rhino a few years ago and the reaction was very bad.

We now give the least amount of shots needed.

 

[Zora]

I met Jean Dodd after her daughter died (if its the same person) I cut off her long hair so she could go through the grieving process. (Indian ritual) She is an interesting person to talk to and very intelligent.I am leaning more towards homeopathy (sp?) for my horses and for myself. I have mixed feelings about this issue, but I purchased a 20 year old QH from Pat Parelli s ex, and Raven never had a vaccine a day in her life. She is 26 now going on 10... strong , fit and healthy, she also lived in a huge pasture at least 50 or so acres all her life. I also have a 30 year old Donkey, no shots either, he is in great health. I do vaccinate my shetlands and american miniature though , but only 1 x per year and its a 3 way I believe, its in a different language. we dont have west nile here, so we dont vaccinate for it .I think its an individual decission...if your traveling a lot with your horses and they are exposed to a lot , then you have to protect them against the horses that are not as well cared for and may be sick. If you have a horse that is healthy, lives a healthy lifestyle, minimal stress, and good feed and water, then your probably OK with giving the minimum or nothing at all. I dont think there is an answer for this one.

We use Homeopathy for us and the animals too!

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thanks for sharing your experience Kay Kay.... when it touches you personally it can sure change the way you look at vaccines forever. My sister in law's vet vaccinated her 6 Morgans all at once bolus style a nunber of years ago. She lost two horses with in a couple of weeks and within 6 months lost another, one set of vaccines, three horses lost, their system completely shut down. Vaccine reaction they called it, these three were older horses, never left the farm, the vet convinced her it was "necessary". She lost the law suit too. sad.

 

[krissy3]

I lost a cat to a Fort Dodge vaccine , and almost lost my pug...fortunatly we were still in the vet office when he fell over and went into convoultions...never heard my vet swear before this visit ...it was very scary for both of us. I get very scared now when I have to vaccinate anything. I have a friend that had a strangles vaccine in the horses nose at the same time as a 3 way(or 5 way) the airborn strangles vaccine got into the needle asperation area and gave the horse a "streyl abcess" the size of a melon on the side of his neck. I dont allow more than 1 vaccine per visit , even if it costs me a fortune.later UC davis said it was possible for the strangles vaccine to get into the area where the needle gave another vaccine, and did not recommend doing both at the same time .

 

[Zipper]

We give all our horses their needles EEE/WEE/Tetanus Vaccine, West Nile, Rabies.

I am always afraid someone is going to react but touch wood nobody has but I am so glad we do give needles because a person we know lost a minature to West Nile and it wasnt nice just back in the fall.

I always question the vet about how our 2000lb. horse gets the same dose as the 125lb mini and she never has a answer.

I will give everything this year to everybody as I will be showing and I dont want to chance anybody getting sick.

I dont like giving them but the risk outweighs what could happen if I didnt give them.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Its not the vaccine that causes the problems... you can give all your vaccines at once. A 10-way is perfectly safe. In theory. The problem is the ADJUNCT, the media which transports the vaccine, preserves it, and facilitates its uptake by the horse. The adjunct is the same (generally) for all a paticular manufacturer's vaccines. So if you react to one shot, you'll react to all from that maker. Fort Dodge is notorious for having a very reaction-prone adjunct, to the point where I don't use any of their vaccines other than Arvac, which is the ONLY vaccine on the market for EVA. And it makes NO DIFFERENCE whether the horse is a miniature or a full sized, the reactions, processes, and problems are the exact same. It does not change based on weight.

The reason you give the same volume for a draft vs a mini is you aren't treating based on weight, you are treating per immune system. So unless your horse has two immune systems, all you need is one dose

 

[Margaret]

The cannine veternairians that I have talked to have told me that most adverse vaccine reactions with dogs usually happen with the smaller toy breeds..

The smaller size pups carry the greatest probablility for reactions due to their lack of body mass...

( think about it... a pup that weighs 4 to 8 ounces compared to larger breed pup that weighs 20 pounds or more all recieving the same dose.

But due to the vaccine regulations it cannot be altered.

So if you think about it, the smaller size animal can pose a higher probability of reaction to a vaccine..

 

[shorthorsemom]

"Vaccination is a potent medical procedure with both risks and benefits. While there is evidence that some vaccines provide immunity beyond one year, revaccination of patients with sufficient immunity does not necessarily add to their disease protection and may increase the potential risk of post-vaccination adverse events."

"Adverse events may be associated with the antigen, adjuvant, carrier, preservative, or a combination thereof. Possible adverse events include, but are not necessarily limited to, failure to immunize, anaphylaxis, immuno-suppression, autoimmune disorders, transient infections, long-term infected carrier states, and local development of tumors. The role of genetic predisposition to adverse events needs further exploration and definition."

These are direct quotes from the American Medical Veterinarian Association vaccine protocol page... The current guidelines for dogs since 2006 as quoted directly from the American Veterinarian Association is that we should give puppy shots, booster at one year and every three years or more... thereafter. This includes RABIES recommendations as well as Distemper parvo etc. Many of the shots are not even recommended at all unless your dog is at high risk. If anybody wants the link to the vaccine protocol as recommended for well over three years, I can link it. They expect this recommendation of three years to be raised, my vet is adopting 3 years for high risk (show dogs) and much longer for low risk dogs....

In my opinion any vet that insists on yearly vaccines for dogs and cats is in it for the money as they are going against the Veterinarian assocation published guidelines. Fact not opinion that vaccines can cause major problems when boosted yearly and that even without titers they are good for at least 3+ years.

 

[~Lisa~]

Actually my vet has never given our chi pups any full dose of a vaccine he has said he has seen way to many reactions that way and gives 1/2 dose- makes sense to me so we went with it.

Granted they are not around other dogs and not out in public so the risk is pretty slim if he was wrong

 

[krissy3]

Its not the vaccine that causes the problems... you can give all your vaccines at once. A 10-way is perfectly safe. In theory. The problem is the ADJUNCT, the media which transports the vaccine, preserves it, and facilitates its uptake by the horse. The adjunct is the same (generally) for all a paticular manufacturer's vaccines. So if you react to one shot, you'll react to all from that maker. Fort Dodge is notorious for having a very reaction-prone adjunct, to the point where I don't use any of their vaccines other than Arvac, which is the ONLY vaccine on the market for EVA. And it makes NO DIFFERENCE whether the horse is a miniature or a full sized, the reactions, processes, and problems are the exact same. It does not change based on weight.
The reason you give the same volume for a draft vs a mini is you aren't treating based on weight, you are treating per immune system. So unless your horse has two immune systems, all you need is one dose

this is correct, I was told the same , its not the vaccine itsself , its the carrier of the vaccine. I dont vaccinate my chihuahuas. I had a dog die of distemper even with the vaccines, so its not always a 100% guarentee preventative. ho... hum... moderation might be the answer for this post, moderation , and do what you think is right for your animal.