If you have purchased on AMHR reg. app

[Lewella]

If you have purchased a foal on AMHR or ASPC registration application and all paperwork is in order (stallion report filed, signed registration application and transfer in hand) but have been told that in order to register the foal that the breeder's ASPC/AMHR membership would need to be brought current please write Larry Parnell and your area directors a letter with details of your situation. This topic will be up for discussion at the ASPC/AMHR Board meeting at Convention next month and we would like a better picture of how the current situation is impacting the membership and new registrations during these challenging economic times.

Director's addresses can be found here http://shetlandminiature.com/board_members.asp

Thank You,

Lewella Tembreull

ASPC/AMHR Director Area VI

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Have there been that many problems? 

I am about to register a yearling I purchased on AMHR application (all paperwork is in order) and I definately do NOT want to run into problems! 

Should I call AMHR before sending in the application?

Katie

 

[Annabellarose]

Irregardless of whether or not these are "challenging economic times", forcing the buyer to pay the seller's membership fee before you can register your horse blows! Coming from (and still being a part of) the "big" horse world, this is one of the most retarded things I have EVER heard as far as horse registries and registration go.

 

[Lewella]

Hi Katie,

You might want to check the AMHR website and see if the breeder is listed as a current member. If they are not, under the current rule, when you send the paperwork in it will be sent back with a note stating that the breeder's membership needs to be brought current before your horse can be registered.

Lewella

 

[LaVern]

I kind of wondered when this was going to hit the fan. For some that are completely selling out- I don't think they are going to keep their membership up. Although I have been told that you can pay for their membership, I don't know if that is quite right. What if they don't want to be a member?

I mean what if someone joined me up to some thing I did not want to be associated with?

 

[Miniv]

How about purchasing a mare with everything in order. The buyer is a member and uses their number to have the ownership transferred.......and AMHR/ASPC denies the paperwork because the SELLER'S membership has lapsed!

 

[Lewella]

Send a letter about that too MA!

You have hit the nail on the head as usual LaVern!

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

WHY ON EARTH SHOULD A BUYER HAVE TO PAY THE SELLER'S MEMBERSHIP FEE? 

Honestly, in my opinion it is stupid. I wouldn't want someone signing me up for something I didn't want. Just crazy. 

 

[Annabellarose]

In essence, what this does is penalize buyers. The buyer might be a first-time Miniature Horse owner. Why would the registry want to bite the hand that feeds it? If a seller is selling out, they are no longer going to be a customer of the registry, but the buyer becomes the customer in the seller's place. This requirement or rule does not make sense just because it does not make sense, but it also doesn't make sense from a business perspective! You are not going to win customers by penalizing them!

 

[LaVern]

Maybe this should be on another thread, but it all kind of ties together. It is a wonderful time for many young folks( and old folks) to get into the business. Buy low-. However, I can see so many new folks getting discouraged over paper work that perhaps will not be done correctly in these tuff times. We have to try to get the word out about things like --just because the auctioneer says here is the horses papers-doesn't mean that the breeder of that horse will still be there to back them. I guess the one thing that comes to mind is bred mares and Stud Reports. If the seller isn't even a member, do you think he is going to send stud reports in? Check to see if they have been sent in for breeding of 2009.

 

[kaykay]

I agree that paperwork is a nightmare right now. I have had many new owners email me asking what to do when applications come back no good etc.

But (always a but) it seems unfair to bend the rules because what about us breeders that are members and do pay the fees? Should someone going out of business get a discount and we pay the full fees?? Doesnt seem right. I know I cannot register foals or do anything unless my membership is paid. That is a fact of doing business.

I hate for horses not to get their papers but this could be a slippery slope. What if they say they are going out of business and dont pay the membership fee but keep selling foals and then they are breeding again the next year?? Sorry but I have seen this kinda stuff go on for years. Seems like some farms have a 5 year going out of business sale

Just seems like this almost rewards people for not being a member and penalizes the ones that are members.

 

[Leeana]

What about a higher fee to register these horses who breeders / sellers do not have a membership - No, I do not think it is right that WE would have to pay the membership for the other person but if a higher fee was charged to Register the horse, then the buyer can decide if it is worth it (I think most would decide that it was worth it). I'm not talking an outrageous amount of $.

Of course I know it is just NOT that simple ....

 

[Becky]

Registering foals shouldn't necessarily be up to the breeder, IMO. If all paperwork is correct, then the owner of dam at time of foaling (who is a paid member) should be the one to register a resulting foal. Same is true on a foal sold on application. If all paperwork is correct, including transfers, then the owner of the foal (again a paid member) should be the one to register the foal.

 

[LaVern]

I might be wrong, but I don't think it was always like this. A good friend, who has probably helped more people in the country with AMHR paperwork for twenty years, brought it to my attention. So I called and talked to Zona and she told me that it was always like this. But, both my friend and I were flabbergasted and thought this was a change. We could be getting a little forgetful though.

 

[Horsin Again]

Being someone that has been out of the Miniature Horse world for awhile and reading this, it makes me wonder why I would even buy registered horses? If a breeder hands me all the paper work that is needed to register a horse into my name then I would expect to pay my membership fee and register my horse. Why is that so difficult ? If there is a problem about breeders not being members, then charge a foal application fee (For those who are those 5 year selling out breeders,

). I believe that the registeries are already a rip off. I mean it's like a college degree that costs $10,000 for a piece of paper that you might or might not ever use. The registeries are not there when your horse is sick, or needs groomed or providing insurance coverage and when you call them they are generally rude and you get an answer of "Sorry, we can't help you until you get the paperwork straightened out yourself."

Also, I agree with other people in the fact that if I no longer wish to be a part of something I would not appreciate being joined back up. This also can cause privacy violations later down the road. If a breeder was smart, they would breed the horses and sell them with applications when their membership is expired and let someone else front the expense of paying their membership. That's not right....... It would certainly and is certainly discouraging me about spending the extra money for registered horses when I DO NOT BREED.

 

[Minimor]

Considering how many times we've had people post on this forum about buying horses on application and associated problems they have had in actually getting papers, and not once has anyone mentioned that they had to pay the membership fee for the seller...I find it hard to believe that this rule has come into play much until this year. No doubt the rule has always been there, but I have to think that it hasn't been enforced in many (most? any?) cases--and now for some reason it is being enforced. I'm quite sure that out of all the cases we've read about on here, there's been more than one where the seller didn't have a current membership.

I cannot say for sure of course, because I've always made it a practice to purchase only horses that were already registered...or at least I purchased horses from people that I knew would get registration papers on the foals I purchased. If I had any reason to think that registration papers would be a problem, I didn't buy the horse...but until Lucy posted on here about the Shetland filly she bought on application and then ran into this problem I'd never heard anyone mention that it was a problem!

So, are transfers now a problem too? If the seller doesn't have a membership the buyer cannot use his/her membership to have the transfer processed? Buyer has to pay the seller's membership before the horse can be transferred into the new name? I'd really object to that one. Even in Morgans--where it is the LAW (federal law here in Canada!) that the seller must transfer the papers (at seller's expense) into the name of the buyer within 6 months of date of sale, if seller is not a member and the is...and buyer agrees to pay for the transfer, then the registry allows the buyer to process that paperwork without any hassle and without any surcharge. Actually the Morgan registry does have a non-member fee for registry work, but if seller is not a member and buyer is, buyer does not have to pay the non-member fee in order to have the papers transferred--he can process the paperwork under his own membership...which is as it should be. As long as one of the parties is a member, that should be good enough.

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

My biggest thing is - what if breeders started getting "smart" and just sold ALL foals on application, let their membership expire and then let someone else pay the membership fee? Bingo - instant free membership! 

That is, hoping that someone that bought your foals actually cared enough to pay your membership fee in order to have the registered horse THEY PAID FOR.

Honestly Minimor, I think the reason this is becoming more pronounced is because with the economy, people are cutting back on what they pay out to anyone - including registries. They figure that if they sell atleast one horse to one person who really really cares about having the horse registered and/or tranfered, then they will get a free membership essentially and therefore they just cut back expenses. 

I seriously think there needs to be change with this rule. 

 

[Annabellarose]

Well, the way to answer that is, does the registry require a breeder to be a member to be able to file a stallion report? Because, isn't it correct that you can't register a horse (without a lot of hassle) if the stallion report wasn't filed? More crap in my opinion. Most "big" horse breeds did away with stallion reports eons ago.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I cannot say for sure of course, because I've always made it a practice to purchase only horses that were already registered...or at least I purchased horses from people that I knew would get registration papers on the foals I purchased. If I had any reason to think that registration papers would be a problem, I didn't buy the horse...but until Lucy posted on here about the Shetland filly she bought on application and then ran into this problem I'd never heard anyone mention that it was a problem!

Yup, that was me. I just can't swing the extra $75 to register her yet. I mean- I already paid the $15 to transfer, $20 to register her, and I wanted her Foundation certified, so tack on another $10. I had wanted to show her this month at Glen Rose, that ain't gonna happen. I did contact the breeder, they said they would let me know "when" they renewed. I haven't heard back, so either they can't- or won't- renew and I am stuck. It says I have 60 days to fix this, which is the end of this month, so now I HAVE to come up with the $75 or lose my original $45!

Plus, I looked in the rulebook, I looked on the application, I looked on the website- NOWHERE does it state the BREEDER must be a member to register a foal if the person sending in the forms IS a member! ALL it states is that you must be a member to have registry work done.

My letter is in the mail today.

Lucy

 

[weerunner]

I only have one AMHR registered horse but when I bought her the lady who sold her to me had long ago let her AMHR membership expire. I paid to become a member for one year and transferred her into my name. No hassle at all. So if the rule was there before it was overlooked.

In AMHA it is the new owners responsibility to transfer their new horses. That is the way it should be, that way those that dont really care if the horse is registered in their name dont' have to fork out money for memberships. I'd never go that route, but the 3 horse I've sold so far are still in my name even though they were sold with completed paperwork and pictures to send in!!

Makes me kinda glad most of my horses are AMHA