I have a problem... very long- May be sensitive..

[Sun Runner Stables]

A few of you may remember my wonder mare Sassy, and the drama from her somehow getting bred (Shakes angry fist) and her foundering. Thankfully, she's doing Fantastic, the resulting foal however is my problem.

Let me start off by saying I don't believe I would have crossed these two horses to begin with. (Sassy and the Sire, he's a halter bred paint stud that's got skin and conformation issues)

The foal Jazzy( whom I've tried every way from Sunday to love) and I just Don't get along. Period.

Consequently I've single handedly created the biggest equine mistake of my life.

I never messed with her enough, and when I did, I either spoiled her too much and gave her into Her way or we got into Huge arguments, the kind where it's you on one end of a lead rope with treats Begging them to come along Please.

She's been willful and flighty from day one. (Completely Unlike her mother, which is what I think the problem is for me, she's not her mother)

I've raised lots of babies, both my own and clients, I Know better, and I Know what to do.

But somehow, I've just ruined this mare.

She's okay for the farrier, as long as she's standing Right On her best buddy,( a 4 year old mare I own, who's also her sister and a saint, and whom I've trained to do everything already)...

She's like heck incarnate for the vet however.

I can barely catch her, she won't tie (We've lost 3 halters and a few decent lead ropes), hates baths, goes through fence kicking at her neighbors With hot wire on, runs me over and is just a living bit of heck.

I refuse to go all cowboy and starve her, or beat the daylights out of her, though I've wanted to more then I can tell you!

I am ashamed. I Know better. I'm the one people come to with these messes, and I can't even fix my Own Home bred One!

To make matters Much worse, she's got a horrid skin allergy, which gives her an almost scaly appearance all over, incl her tail(Thanks to her sire, sigh)

and I can just almost get her to give her meds for it, but as it's a shot, it's a constant rodeo, and therefore it's Not always getting done.

So to sum it all up I have created a dragon. Really. To send her out and fix this, even if I can Find someone and get her on a trailer will be expensive.

The money is not my problem.

My problem is that this is an unregistered, plain headed and flighty mare. Putting the $3,000 or so into her will be a money pit, and may get someone very hurt. (Yes, she's That bad)

I feel like it's my problem and I shouldn't get someone hurt trying to clean up after me; and as I am running a business, that $3000 could go toward an animals vet bill or god knows what else. I don't see her selling for very much despite her pretty paint color and half way decent conformation, so that's hard to figure in business wise as well.

I'm strongly considering putting her down.

From the trainers I've talked to, horses this spoiled end up being terrible to do anything with, and many resort to very harsh ways of training. I don't agree with it, and it just grabs at me to do that to a horse. It akins to abuse, and to me, it's just not fair to do that to her when I messed up. I feel like putting her to sleep would be kinder.

So What do you all think? I realize this may be a heated topic, but please realize I Know I messed up. But I also know this is an animal who can now hurt people. (She's a solid 15 hh at 2 btw.)

What would you do here?

 

[crponies]

Wow, that is a tough one. I am sure you are not making this decision lightly. I do not envy you one bit. Too bad you can't find a trainer that you could just give her to who could use her as a demonstration or special project or something. Are there any colleges that have horsemanship programs that do stuff like that? I honestly don't know what I would do either. I have a mare that is extremely hard to catch and the thought of putting her down did come to me before I figured out a way to do it. I wasn't going to have a pony I could not care for properly (vaccinate, deworm, etc.).

 

[Marty]

You are not alone, but please stop beating yourself up first.

I'll give it to you straight from the hip since you asked for it.

From where I sit, you didn't want this foal anyhow before it was born. Wrong sire. So you had it in for her from the get-go. Ok, that's a mental block with you.

The horse is not ruined like you think she is. You are looking at the big picture instead of taking each thing she does wrong, and working on one thing at a time. The way you are looking at it is that she is a complete bumble.

I have had two horses in my life that I had a personality conflict with. No matter how hard I tried, I could not connect. To me, that was a mortal sin. Everyone expected me to be able to go forth and conquer but my heart was not in it. I just did not feel the love that I thought I should have. That's why I said you are not alone. And no, it is not a crime not to get along with your horse.

I do not believe that you should keep this horse any longer. I also do not believe that you should send her away to a trainer and dump money into her. Even if someone straightens her out, she will go back to you with a negative attitude and you can undo the possitive things that were done, even not realizing it.

I used to thrive on working with horses that were problem cases and there are much better people out there than me that still do. Eventually I'm going to be taking in problem minis to work with, not big horses cause I'm too old and broke down. But if I were you, I would put a very resonable price on this horse and sell her. OR You could donate her to a rescue. But, I would be very careful how I placed her. Cowboying this horse is out. There ARE people out there that want a horse such as this to work with that are capable of re-programing her and make a nice horse out of her, skin problems and all. I do know someone in your neck of the woods that is a rescue that maybe can help. PM me if you want her name.

For now, stop blaming yourself. Stop blaming the sire, and just chalk it up to one of those dumb horse things that can happen to anyone. Be good to yourself! (((( ))))

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

While I apprecaite your guilt and such I really dont think she sounds like a canidate for putting down. She is young horse.

I do think she is fixable and I dont think it would be that difficult for someone who was willing and didnt have the guilt/resentment that you do towards her. I am not blaming you I know these things happen but I also think that there is someone out there for her and me personally would want to explore those options first.

 

[wade3504]

Call me. It can be worked out.

Amanda

 

[Reble]

Trust is what you and the horse need to have.

I know some people do not agree,

but getting someone in that knows how to throw a horse might help

Instead of putting her down for good.

 

[Reijel's Mom]

I think you've gotten some great advice. I also think that you and this horse will continue to have a personality conflict if you keep her. It happens.

 

[wildoak]

It's hard to sell a horse that you don't like, because it's hard to say good things about them

If you price her reasonably or find a program to donate her to, I imagine there is someone out there looking for a project horse who would take her on and turn her around. I raised a QH filly years ago who was nuts from the day she was born. Of the 4 babies that sweet old mare had, she was the only one with no brains (but the best looks). I was pregnant and couldn't take a chance on getting hurt, so I basically dumped her in an auction...and wept all the way home LOL.

Jan

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

Thank you everyone.

I am well aware that she and I have a problem, and that I need the work here as well.

I agree that she is very young, and that there could be hope. I'll look into a place to donate her, I just never thought someone else would want my problem, and I worry about her getting passed around. I really feel like I brought it here, I need to worry about where it ends up.

I'd love for her to be a demo for someone, but I just doubt anyone would want her. The horses I see for those things are lovely, and while she's in perfect weight and sound, she's truly ugly with her skin problems.

Used to be a pretty mare though darn it!

How in the gods do I write and ad for something like that-

One two year old grade paint mare- not much tail or mane, or manners,...

Free.

Sigh.

Edited to ad pic's of her when she had hair as a long weanling

 

[minimule]

I wish I were closer to you. I love working with problem horses. I've taken in a couple that the owner's couldn't get close to and in a short time I'm leading them around with just my hand under their jaw. I'd love to take your girl in, ugly and all, and see if we could turn her into a good girl. Just too far away.

 

[Kitty]

ANY horse can be trained. Being spoiled or personality conflicts, or whatever.

The problem with this filly is she has ALWAYS been in control. You pull her, she pulls back and wins. You pull her, she pulls back and breaks the halters, again she wins. You pull her, try to give her a treat and she wins.

In her eyes she is the lead horse. I have seen it, I have trained them and yes they can be turned around. I have taken a untouched 2 yr old mare running in a 50 acre pasture, loaded her and trained her to lead, back and LISTEN. I have taken a 16 hand stallion that would try to bite your arm off and kick just for fun. Horses honestly want to listen, they just need a tool to do it.

It starts with a round pen, a rope lunge rope, and some time and "googling- John Lyons". I promise you his methods work and are amazing in the first lesson. And I swear the full sized horses are easier to train then the Miniatures. Minis are too darn smart for their own good.

Boy I wish I was closer.

 

[TriggynBluenDaisy Too]

First off please don't blame yourself for not being a perfect match with this or any horse. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be but I think you can find someone who may be better suited for her personality. It's not a failing at all and you are a mature enough horsewoman to know that she and you are not going to be a team. Too bad more people weren't so in tune as you. I've seen plenty of people get their egos tied up in trying to win a losing game with a horse that will never be right with them. I wouldn't put her down without doing everything possible to find her a good match. She's not ugly at all and it just may be the way you see her since you don't mesh, she's going through the usual yearling/two year old gawkieness but I think she will pretty out as time goes on.

My Fia is all legs and a huge head at this same stage and certainly wouldn't win any beauty contests. She's willful and snotty and generally a PITA most of the time but I wouldn't expect her to be any different from others at her age. With her elegant carriage, I think she will be a fabulous dressage horse and since I don't do dressage, I think I will find her a good trainer who can help her meet that goal with or without me. Who knows I may go a completely different direction in my riding because of her.

I do hope you are able to find her a suitable home in which she can develop to her full potential without being abused. Trainers who use abusive methods ARE NOT fit to be called trainers and probably shouldn't have any horse under their care. Good luck for a better ending to her story, I think it's too soon to think about euthanizing her.

 

[Jill]

Oh

I am not about to judge you because I can understand how all this "happened" and can very much relate to how you are feeling about this filly.

Can you advertise her very inexpensively priced to a "special" home? Someone who has the knowledge and time to try and straighten her out and turn her into something useful?

If you cannot find a qualified person to take her and really try and "fix" her, I do understand why you would consider putting her down because I think I would as well. Hopefully, though, there's someone out there who will want this kind of a project and turn it into a win-win.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I do hope ypu give someone else a chance with her.

Oh

I am not about to judge you because I can understand how all this "happened" and can very much relate to how you are feeling about this filly.

Can you advertise her very inexpensively priced to a "special" home? Someone who has the knowledge and time to try and straighten her out and turn her into something useful?

If you cannot find a qualified person to take her and really try and "fix" her, I do understand why you would consider putting her down because I think I would as well. Hopefully, though, there's someone out there who will want this kind of a project and turn it into a win-win.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Hey was thinking of you today and was wondering how things were going

 

[Miniv]

Just read through your thread.........a bit late. I agree with both Lisa and Marty. A personality conflict is not your fault.

Larry and I have stumbled onto two mares that we now own because of personality conflicts and couldn't be more pleased. One of them resulted in a TRADE situation!

Please keep your options open.

MA

 

[babygoose]

I was just reading something recently either on another board or magazine, heck maybe it was this board, I can't remember anything anymore! OH! Anyway, it discussed that when there is a personality clash that sometimes the bad behavior goes away in a different place with different people, etc. There was an example of someone with a horse that was difficult for the owner, but an absolute saint with a little kid.

Maybe advertise her with an honest description of her problems. Work with the buyers that if they can't work with her that she comes back to you. That will save her getting sold and resold. If she is difficult for everybody and just can't find the right home, then I wouldn't blame you for considering euthanasia. It would be better than getting shuffled from owner to owner until something bad happens to her. But maybe she would click with someone else. And also don't blame yourself, I believe that some horses and people just don't get along well. My husbands horse has never "liked" me much, and is a lot more happy around him.

 

[Champagne Valley Farm]

You've gotten some real good advice. Don't blame yourself too much. A lot of this sounds like it's a personality conflict vs. lack of training. I had a BS paint filly whom I got when she was 18 months old and not weaned yet! She wasn't halter broke, didn't know much about being handled really. I sent her out to a trainer as a 2 yr old. Now mind you prior to all this she didn't like me much. She loved my father and would let him do a lot of things I couldn't do with her even if I hog tied her down! LOL. Even at the trainers she was still carrying an attitude but learned to respect people and what they wanted. When she came home I would still ride her and all but it was NOT fun. We just didn't get along. Plain and simple. I put my father on her one day (mind you he is a beginner rider) and she tried a couple things with him but I told him how to reprimand her and make her do what he asked. The only thing she did to him was give a little hop buck and that was it. She went on her way listening to him and things went great! The only way I could keep her fit was to pony her off my gelding (whom she ADORED!) and she was wonderful. That was the only way we got along

When I moved here to FL I had to sell her as I wasn't going to keep a horse that I didn't get along with. I had many people come look at her and later call me and she didn't get along with ANY of them. She reared with one girl and later that night she had called me and told me "oh once a horse rears they always will do it and they will never be a good horse yada yada yada." Well I had to inform her that it really just came down to the fact that the filly didn't like her nor like her style. In the end I sold her to a wonderful man from Wisconson. He LOVES her and they get along wonderfully. No rearing, no huge problems. It just came down to the fact that she didn't get along with women and preferred men. Plain and simple.

I think you should give this filly a shot and just be honest about her if and when you write an ad. I've ALWAYS been honest in writing ads for any of my horses. If they bucked me off every time I mounted up, I'd write that in the ad. Would always mention the downfalls of the horse and yet I would also state that it may just be a clashing of personalities. What's funny though is many people don't believe the ad and that someone would write "bad" things about the horse. Yet we'd sometimes get a call a few days later saying "gee I didn't think you were really serious about the horse ________ (fill in the blank) and he did just that.) So be honest in her description and in the end the horse will go to a much better home then if you're not.

There are a lot of horsemen here in FL and I think there are some that would be willing to even help you with her, or even give you small things to work with her on. Sometimes getting the input from many outside opinions you can mold together methods that will work in your case.

Best of luck

 

[mydaddysjag]

I had a horse that had some big time problems a few years ago. It was a 3 year old QH mare, and my first horse. When I got her she was thin, and was willing to do anything you asked of her. Easiest thing to ride, etc. Well a few hundred pounds later she was heck on hoofs. She would try to kick me when I brushed her, you couldnt bath her, she would kick her stall walls and whirl if you came within 10 feet of her stall when she was eating, she would flip out (and one time over) when you would try to saddle her, she would bite for no reason, etc. This horse was supposidly professionally trained. Well, I was a young teen, and honestly, I was scared crapless of her. Not to mention, this was the horse my dad got me to show in 4h, and he said I HAD to show her. My dad had never been around horses in his life, and he had the idea that you could strong arm a horse into behaving. He also found out how truely wild this mare was. I had her at different trainers, tried parelli, etc. We tried working with her for almost 2 years. I got her to the point that I could brush her as long as someone helped me. How embarassing was that, I couldnt bursh my own horse alone.. This mare wasnt anything special, 14.2 hand QH mare, crazy, and not rideable. Well I ended up giving her to a trainer in Ohio (My dad was beyong angry that he couldnt recover any money out of her) She never did live up to what she supposidly was when I bought her, but the trainer worked with her daily for about 6 months, and she is now someones happy trail horse.

 

[runamuk]

I don't envy you. I have hesitated to share my story, but decided I would.

I worked for a lady who had a small barn full of show horses. My favorite gelding in her barn was a horse with issues. He was a gentleman all the way on the ground. Kind, loving, huge heart. However he could not be ridden safely. She got him when he was around 7, he had raced briefly then was sold as a show prospect. He had been through multiple well known trainers barns and several owners before reaching her barn. He came with a warning...."He is crazy and should be destroyed before he kills someone".

If you worked with this horse from the ground you'd never have guessed how bad it could be. When ridden he was fine until he wasn't and when he wasn't he would bolt and there was no stopping him. It was like his mind would suddenly snap and he wanted away and fast and you could not calm him (nobody home). We worked with him for a year before she decided to try riding him, and it went great for the first 3 rides, the 4 th ride however he lost it, she bailed when she couldn't stop him and he finally stopped after hitting the arena wall several times...it was the most terrifying thing I have witnessed.

It was like he'd check out and when he checked back in he was his normal kind self. She decided he would just live with her as an ornament.

Well life happens I moved on had a baby and we lost touch for about 6 months. Her marriage went south and she had to move and some horses had to go. She thought she had placed him a fully aware home. Well it was a great home for about 6 months in fact they even rode him some on trails and he was fine.....until the day he wasn't....that fateful day he spooked, bolted dumped the rider and ran into a highway........not a happy ending for such a kind horse. Would it have been kinder to have made a different decision, I don't know

.....I am glad that no human was killed, but it broke my heart the way he went. I loved that horse with my heart and soul and he trusted me, I never wanted to ride him just being his groom and exercising him and playing tag was enough, I felt honored that he looked forward to seeing me. And honestly I felt guilty for not realizing he needed a home that understood until it was too late

As I said I don't envy you. Personality conflicts can often be remedied but every so often something else just isn't right and can't be fixed.