How long should I wait

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Should I be worrying? I ahve never had a foal go so long without nursing. He was born over 4 hours ago and as of 15 minutes ago he is still hunting for his food. He is strong, not flagging at all and his suck reflex is good (and he is sucking his tongue and mom's sides) but how long before I intervene and milk the mare? Anyone?

 

[rockin r]

I would have gotten involved within the first hour. Take him to her udder and get him to nurse, put her nipple at his mouth if you have to. If for some reason he can't or won't then you need to milk the mare and get nourishment in him (bottle feed). Newborns can crash at the blink of an eye...He needs to nurse!

 

[PaintedMeadows]

Can you help guide him? I think he should have it really soon but have never had this problem so am not positive.

 

[Matt73]

Yeah, within the first hour. Guide him or milk that mare and get him some colostrum stat! Let us know how it goes.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well, I milked the mare and syringed about 20cc into him but he still isn't latching onto a nipple. This kid is firey! He may have been without food for a long time but he doesn't lack for energy at all. It is all i can do to hold onto him never mind guide him. And of course the mare is a first time mom and she worries if he is out of site so she's trying to turn around and see him.

I think I got another 20cc on me, mostly in mt face. He is sucking everything BUT the nipple. Even the side of her udder. I am starting to think he has eaten at some point since he has sooo much energy and her nipples are not engorged altho her udder is still hard and full. If we don't get some of that milk out of there the next thing is she'll be to sore to let him nurse.

 

[kaykay]

most use the 1, 2 3 rule

up and walking on all fours in one hour

looking for the milk bar and urinating/bm by 2 hrs

nursing fully by 3 hrs

most will do 2 and 3 together. If the foal isnt nursing by 3 hrs or later you must syringe colostrum into him/her they will get the most benefit from colostrum the first 16-20 hrs

Its so frustrating when foals cant latch on. Try smearing milk all over the nipples so the foal smells it. This usually causes them to suck the bag and accidentally find the nipple. Just guide gently

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Thanks kaykay, I don't know what to make of this foal at all. He is FULL of energy and fighting me with great vigor, has pooped at least 6 times (pretty sure more but I've seen 6x over the first 4 hours. He just will not accept latching onto her nipple. My husband tried, I tried and we tried together. He doesn't act ravenous at all and when guided into position he will suck on my fingers (when they have milk on them) but when I try to switch for a nipple he pulls back again. I was out a few minutes ago and he was laying down and when I approached he leapt to his feet like a deer. So he really doesn't seem to be wearing out like I'd expect if he weren't nursing. But if he is why can he not do so when I am present as well as when I am not.

I am really at a loss, and its already getting to the point that Momma starts to fret when we approach because we are handling her little one so much.

 

[Kendra]

Sounds just like a colt we had a few weeks ago, he was bright, lots of energy, good suck reflex, but he just couldn't seem to get it. If it gives you hope, he finally did ... you probably don't want to hear that it took him 15 hours. OH!

Sounds like you're doing all the right things to try to teach him ... keep getting the colostrum into him too. Also a little recommendation from our recent experience ... DON'T feed him from a bottle, it'll just set you back in trying to teach him to nurse.

Good luck, I know exactly how worrisome and frustrating it is!

 

[backwoodsnanny]

Do you have a camera you could put them under so you could watch when you are not there? Is he sleeping curled like a shrimp? Sometimes they take a looooong time. We did everything we could think of to get our Harvey to eat but if we hadnt tubed him I think it would have been too long for him to have gotten the needed colostrum. Good that you got the 20 cc into him we finally had to leave Harvey for several hours to make him hungry enough to eat. For whatever reason boys seem to be slower than the girls. Good Luck!!!!

 

[bevann]

We had a colt several years ago we named Forrest Gump.He was slow finding the nipple and had some leg problems. We milked the mare, put it in a baby bottle and let him suck on that.When he got the hang of sucking on the bottle we put the bottle under the mare's belly from the opposite side where the foal was. We moved in near her nipples and gradually pulled it away.He soon found the nipple and figured out where the lunch bar was.We did physical therapy on his crooked legs and today he is a fine healthy gelding.It was a struggle, but I am sure he will figure things out.Good luck and keep us posted on his progress.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I really appreciate your personal experiences with this Kendra and backwoodsnanny. Kendra if I had been thinking I'd have e-mailed you since I know you have foaled out LOTS of foals. 15 hours? wow, did you have to tube him to get the colostrum into him? Your advice not to give him a bottle is a bit late tho. I just came in from doing just that. I milked the mare and bottle fed the brat. I got about 10 oz. from the mare and put 6 in a small bottle I've got from bottle feeding our orphan filly. He wasn't too enthusiastic at first and really just mouthed the nipple so I squeezed a bit of milk into his mouth and made him swallow and after a minute he really went to town on that bottle. He took about 3 oz. so he's had all together about 4.5 oz. Now I can't recall how much they should have. I only know I felt the window was closing on this guy and if I didn't get some colostrum into him he would be in trouble. So I thought I'd go out one more time before bed and feed him another bit and then we can deal with the hungries if thats what it takes. I just feel better knowing he got some colostrum into him. He sleeps more crashed out on his side than curled up and he is QUICK when he wants to get up. still he seemed to be less strong on his legs in the last while than earlier in the day. Perhaps that was just sleepiness and cooler air as evening sets in tho. And no unfortunately no camera here. I have to make many many trips to check on mares in foal and I put them up where I can see them and check on them from the house. Not the best system but its what we have. The camera would be nice and if it wasn't raining I could have just left them out where I can see from the house but I can't leave them out in the rain. If you recall what the recommended amount of colostrum is or know where I can find it let me know please.

 

[nnadams]

This happened with our second foal this Spring. I tried everything to help her nurse, and she just did not get it. I finally just milked the mare and fed the filly with a baby bottle. Every 2 hours I would try to get her to nurse again and I would end up just milking the mare and feeding it to the little filly in a bottle. It took about 18 hours, but the filly finally figured out how to nurse on her own. Now this little filly is as healthy and strong as can be and is the sweetest foal out of our three foals.

Just make sure you keep getting mom's milk into him and keep him strong. I am sure he will figure it out soon!

When this happened to me, I am pretty sure the recommended amount of colostrum/milk was 25 - 75 cc. I was not as much as I thought they would need, but I made sure the filly got between 40 - 80 cc (or mL) every 2 hours until she figured out how to nurse on her own.

 

[Jill]

How is your foal doing this morning?

 

[Genie]

Hope things are improving today. Such a worry when they don't seem to get it.

We had 2 dummy foals last year and every foal I see now, makes me nervous.

One took 24 hours to figure things out and the other was around 12. Keep giving a bit of colostrum /milk but don;t overfeed.

If the baby gets a little hungry he may start looking himself rather than waiting for the "nurse".

We put the bottle thru between the back legs and the nipple between the mares faucets.

All of a sudden the baby grabs the "right nipple" and you are away.

the secret is to get them looking under the mare in the udder area for the milk supply.

 

[Kendra]

Hi Lori,

I hope the kid is sucking this morning!

We used a baby bottle, and then he would only suck with his nose up in the air, we'd try to get him to suck from under the mare but as soon as he'd drop his head, he'd quit sucking ... we ditched the baby bottle and just used a syringe.

12 hours is the cut off for antibody absorbsion, though within 6 hours is better. I think they should have 20cc per hour, pretty sure that's what I figured out from the recommendations from big horse foals.

Just a thought ... since we weren't sure about how much colostrum we'd gotten into him, we did an IgG test at 24 hours, might be a good idea for your little guy too!

I hope he's figured it out!!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Thanks all for your concern. I still haven't seen him suck but he searches for it in the right place. He seems to spend a lot of time sucking on the side of her udder. OH! Her bag is full and tight again this morning but her nipples are not particularly distended. He is still strong and bright eyed after a 6 hour stretch without me offering a bottle (which I had to hold him in place for and insist before he'd take) I don't see milk on his face like I usually do with newborns (messy eaters) and her back feed are coated in milk. Is it possible do you suppose that she is just a prolific milker and he is a tidy eater? I find it unlikely since they usually get milk on their face because they grab the far nipple and when the mare lets her milk down the closer one drips on them. I have put them back in a pen where I can watch them and if I don't see him nursing in the next 1/2 hour or so I will have to milk the mare and feed him again I guess. He had about 140ml of colostrum yesterday before his 12 hour mark, 105ml before he was8hrs old in several feedings. Would he do you think still be acting healthy and vigorous if he wasn't nursing? I was thinking by now he'd be showing signs of weakening if he was going with out. His legs are more under his control today (darn long things were all over the place yesterday lol) and other than the fact that its darn COLD here today and he doesn't appreciate that he seems pretty good. I'm just thinking aloud (well typing) because I don't really know what to think.

 

[kaykay]

Honestly I would be somewhat worried. If her bag is hard and tight hes not nursing enough. I wouldnt let him go 6 hours between feedings. How many hours old is he?? he sounds like a bit of a dummy foal. Our dummy foal finally woke up at 12 hrs old and nursed on his own. I know my vet said they will suddenly wake up and go right to the nipple and that sure proved true for us. But until he did my vet said to feed him every 2-3 hours.

Also I would milk her as its harder for them to nurse when the bag is full and tight. I would for sure have your vet come and pull a IGG test to be sure he got enough colostrum.

Sending good thoughts for him!! (colts i swear are so much slower then fillies)

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

kaykay I actually am a bit worried. If he is nursing (which I doubt at this point) he isn't taking much. Oddly enough I just came in from feeding him again when I read your post. He only took 2 oz. this time but he continues to root around in the right area while I milk the mare. I take far more from herthan he will eat right now but I am not draining her (don't want to increase her production just now) She gives her milk easily and it runs out once started so if he ever finds the nipple he'll get rewarded easily. He does an odd thing while he eats, he jerks, different from the bunting motion all nursing animals use to encourage milk let down, more like a sharp twitch. I had thought it was a half attempt to get free but now I'm wondering if he has an immature nervous system and that has something to do with why he won't nurse. Oh and in reference to the 6 hours without. I had fed him every 2 hours until then but was concerned he would not be hungry enough to TRY on his own so after he was over 12 hours old I gave him some time to figure it out. It doesn't seem to have worked tho so I will have to feed him regularly until I know he is eating. Mom is not helping and now trys to block me with her body so I can't catch the little brat. Once I have him she's fine just eats and watches. Good grief, its always something and I think I am doomed to never get a full nights sleep again.

 

[Genie]

With our two little dummies last year we were feeding every 30 minutes.

He'll figure it out but can take up to 24 hours.

I hope he gets it soon sounds like Mum would be uncomfortable.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Genie, you're right Mom is uncomfortable and left unmilked she drips constantly. Which is probably natures plan, it not only relieves some pressure but makes the foal more likely to locate the source. Now that he has some food in him again and mom has been milk they are both napping in the watery sun we have today. I'd like to know where it is written that as soon as a foal is born it must be cold and miserable for a week. Same thing happened with my filly in April. Snow storms and COLD. This has been a ridiculous year. (OK can you tell I'm having trouble handling the stress on limited sleep lol)

l