Hey you color experts....

[EllieB]

I just got a 2 yr old filly/mare & she's registered grey. Standing a few feet away, she looks pure bright white. But, when you get up close, most of her hairs have a very light reddish tint starting in about the middle of the shaft & coming out to the tip. (No, it's not pee-stains

). These reddish hairs are more condensed over her front shoulders, neck & rear hips, but they are throughout her entire body.

Her face has a few blotches of light brown; slightly bigger than flea bites, but about the same shade.

Her legs don't appear to be any darker than her body, but our snow is melting & her legs are rather dirty, so I can't tell for sure.

Also, she has a lot of marbley-mottling on her muzzle and on her genitals; it looks like what you see on appaloosas (not the kind like you see on pintos/paints). According to her papers, she doesn't have any appaloosa in her background; but who knows for sure.

Around her eyes is not mottled. Her eyes are not blue; they are dark.

All but one of her hooves are white. The other one is mostly white, but does have 2 black stripes.

Her mother is pure white (I don't know if she has pink or black skin, or blue or dark eyes, though, so don't know if she was actually a grey or a dilute of some kind) out of a Sorrel Pinto and a Light Palomino. The Light Palomino could have been something else, though....we all know how accurate some of the colors on the registration papers are! lol.

Her father is a Buckskin out of a Sorrel Pinto & a Buckskin, according to the papers.

Any ideas on what my girls color is? Whatever it is, I've not seen anything quite like it before.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures to post. My 2 year old daughter got ahold of my digital camera.....end of story....

:

 

[kaykay]

to get a true grey horse one parent has to be grey. if her dam was out of two pintos/sabinos but no greys she could be maximum sabino etc but she cant be grey.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The "light Palomino" could have greyed out??

All is speculation, though without pictures- swap your daughter for a camera for a day- seems a fair swap to me

 

[bitsy]

I just got a 2 yr old filly/mare & she's registered grey. Standing a few feet away, she looks pure bright white. But, when you get up close, most of her hairs have a very light reddish tint starting in about the middle of the shaft & coming out to the tip. (No, it's not pee-stains

). These reddish hairs are more condensed over her front shoulders, neck & rear hips, but they are throughout her entire body.

Her face has a few blotches of light brown; slightly bigger than flea bites, but about the same shade.

Her legs don't appear to be any darker than her body, but our snow is melting & her legs are rather dirty, so I can't tell for sure.

Also, she has a lot of marbley-mottling on her muzzle and on her genitals; it looks like what you see on appaloosas (not the kind like you see on pintos/paints). According to her papers, she doesn't have any appaloosa in her background; but who knows for sure.

Around her eyes is not mottled. Her eyes are not blue; they are dark.

All but one of her hooves are white. The other one is mostly white, but does have 2 black stripes.

Her mother is pure white (I don't know if she has pink or black skin, or blue or dark eyes, though, so don't know if she was actually a grey or a dilute of some kind) out of a Sorrel Pinto and a Light Palomino. The Light Palomino could have been something else, though....we all know how accurate some of the colors on the registration papers are! lol.

Her father is a Buckskin out of a Sorrel Pinto & a Buckskin, according to the papers.

Any ideas on what my girls color is? Whatever it is, I've not seen anything quite like it before.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures to post. My 2 year old daughter got ahold of my digital camera.....end of story....

:

I've got to go along with KayKay, she sounds like a sabino to me. A lot of sabinos have the dark eyes and the fact that the color is predominant over the top and on her face tends to make believe she is a sabino overo.

 

[EllieB]

Thank you for the responses. I'll see what I can do to get some pictures.

Jane, here's one of the last pictures I was able to upload from my camera.....I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working right, until I saw this....!!

:

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[Dona]

Thank you for the responses. I'll see what I can do to get some pictures.

Jane, here's one of the last pictures I was able to upload from my camera.....I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working right, until I saw this....!!

:

:

:lol: That's TOO funny, Ellie!

But....back to the horse.

Yes...it's possible she could be a maximum white Sabino, with a pinto parent.

It's also possible she could be a true gray. Either parent could have grayed out after their original color was put on the registration papers.

She could also be a Silver-White....which is what you get when you combine true Gray & the Silver gene. Silver Whites will "gray" or turn white very rapidly after birth...and are sometimes even born white. The combination of the gray gene and the silver gene seems to somehow excelerate the graying process.

Either one of the parents could have been carrying Silver and/or gray.

So, without knowing what color your filly was when she was born....

and, without knowing if either parent carried true Gray, Sabino or Silver....

AND, without photos.....

It's simply a guessing game what the true color of your filly actually is.

:

 

[EllieB]

Hey, I just remembered that the previous owner had e-mailed me a picture of her. It's not a great picture & she's dirty, but hey, it's a picture.

The shadowing you see on her neck, shoulders & along her back & rump are where those reddish hairs I mentioned are more condensed. They are also on the rest of her body, too, though. Their pattern is like if she'd been rained on; thicker on her higher spots & thinner the lower you go.

I saw her daddy & he was a light buckskin. I didn't see her mother (who was registered as white....), but the owner said she was white from the time she was young, so I'm assuming was probably either a real light palomino or a grey, depending on what her mother's true color was (papers for the granddam said Light Palomino).

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c257/EllieBK/Snowball.jpg

 

[Lauralee]

From the picture, all I can see is white winter hair. Does she look like this mare????

Hey Girl is a maximum sabino mare whose dam was listed as solid white. Hey Girl is registered as a red pintaloosa, BUT there are NO appaloosas in her pedigree. After doing some research, I have found out that her dam was exactly the same color as Hey Girl.

Here are pictures of Hey Girl as a foal, and select body shots showing the "frosting" that remains. The color she has is visible in the early summer, and then soon thereafter she simply appears white again.

She has foaled a pure white maximum sabino colt.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Definitely not Appy- DEFINITELY my kind of mare!!!!

I would have registered her as "different" (I actually did try that with the AHSB once but they were not having any!!)

Lauralee, she is PRETTY!!!!

And a very good example of how people can easily get confused.

 

[Dona]

From the picture, all I can see is white winter hair. Does she look like this mare????

Hey Girl is a maximum sabino mare whose dam was listed as solid white. Hey Girl is registered as a red pintaloosa, BUT there are NO appaloosas in her pedigree. After doing some research, I have found out that her dam was exactly the same color as Hey Girl.

Here are pictures of Hey Girl as a foal, and select body shots showing the "frosting" that remains. The color she has is visible in the early summer, and then soon thereafter she simply appears white again.

She has foaled a pure white maximum sabino colt.

She's a lovely Sabino Lauralee! And she shows a perfect example of the "freckling" (or mottling, if you will) that is common on Sabinos!

: It's that mottling/freckling that comfuses people into thinking they are appaloosas.

:

 

[EllieB]

Lauralee, Yes, she does look very similar to your mare's current pictures (not nearly as dark as her foal pics). According to the previous owner, she was born white. Is it possible for a maximum sabino to be faded completely out with just some leftover frosting already when they're born?

And yes, her mottling/freckling is like what your mare has. That is part of the reason I was curious, as I've not seen that kind of mottling on anything but appaloosas previously, but as far as I can tell, she doesn't have any appy in her background.

Thank you so much Lauralee for posting those pictures; they really help clarify things!

A couple more questions; I know they're probably stupid, but I know very little about these color genes. First, is Maximum Sabino a color all by itself, or would it have to be with Overo, or Tobiano or something in order to be said correctly? Also, is a maximum sabino able to carry Lethal White Syndrome?

Thanks again!

 

[Songcatcher]

Lauralee, I just wanted to say that that mare has one of the most beautiful heads I have ever seen.

Lauralee, Yes, she does look very similar to your mare's current pictures (not nearly as dark as her foal pics). According to the previous owner, she was born white. Is it possible for a maximum sabino to be faded completely out with just some leftover frosting already when they're born?

And yes, her mottling/freckling is like what your mare has. That is part of the reason I was curious, as I've not seen that kind of mottling on anything but appaloosas previously, but as far as I can tell, she doesn't have any appy in her background.

Thank you so much Lauralee for posting those pictures; they really help clarify things!

A couple more questions; I know they're probably stupid, but I know very little about these color genes. First, is Maximum Sabino a color all by itself, or would it have to be with Overo, or Tobiano or something in order to be said correctly? Also, is a maximum sabino able to carry Lethal White Syndrome?

Thanks again!

Some believe that maximum Sabino is likely homozygous. They may also carry other patterns. Sabino alone does not cary LWO unless Frame is present also.

 

[slaneyrose]

I agree with Songcatcher Laurelee.....that mare is STUNNING!!

 

[Lauralee]

Well thank you all for your gracious compliments on Hey Girl. She is my daughter's personal favorite, and such a lovebug. We call her "HAY Gurrrl"....with a redneck emphasis.

She is in foal to a beautiful leggy mahogany bay stallion with blaze, partial blue eye, and two socks. We are hoping for a sabino explosion! LOL

I have clipped her head and neck in the past, and that mottling is EVERYWHERE beneath the hair. Those odd patches of color are quite curious, and apparently tend to occur with the extreme sabinos.

Hugs to all, and glad I could help you Ellie,

Lauralee

 

[Dona]

Lauralee, Yes, she does look very similar to your mare's current pictures (not nearly as dark as her foal pics). According to the previous owner, she was born white. Is it possible for a maximum sabino to be faded completely out with just some leftover frosting already when they're born?

And yes, her mottling/freckling is like what your mare has. That is part of the reason I was curious, as I've not seen that kind of mottling on anything but appaloosas previously, but as far as I can tell, she doesn't have any appy in her background.

Thank you so much Lauralee for posting those pictures; they really help clarify things!

A couple more questions; I know they're probably stupid, but I know very little about these color genes. First, is Maximum Sabino a color all by itself, or would it have to be with Overo, or Tobiano or something in order to be said correctly? Also, is a maximum sabino able to carry Lethal White Syndrome?

Thanks again!

Yes.....Max White Sabinos can be born almost totally white!

:

Here is a photo of my friend's Max White Sabino filly at birth. You can see, the only color she has is a sprinkling of red on top her head & down her mane.

And here is the same filly just one year later. No hint of color anywhere!

To answer your other questions....No, "Maximum White Sabino" is not a COLOR...it is an Overo Pinto PATTERN. MAX White Sabino, is simply a horse who got so much Sabino white on it, that it appears mostly white with very little colored markings. Their "color" would be whatever those colored markings are. So, it's important to make note of what that color is at birth, as it will usually fade away very quickly!

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And Sabinos do NOT carry LWO. Only the FRAME pattern is associated with the Lethal White gene.

Altho...you can have a horse who carries both, the Sabino gene AND the frame (LWO gene) pattern.

 

[EllieB]

Thank you all for your responses & clarifications; I really appreciate it!

One last question. What colors do Maximum Sabino's tend to produce in their babies? Can they pretty much produce anything, depending on what they're bred to? Or do they tend to throw color similar to theirs?

According to my girls papers, it looks as though her mother and grandmother were probably both maximum sabinos, so it's carrying on through the generations here.