Halter Horses VS Preformance Horses

[Miss_Fortune]

Ive been noticing alot of people have halter horses & preformance horses. There arent as many horses that do both. The majority of halter horses seem to be very fine boned, while the preformance horses seem to have a bit more bone.

Shouldnt we be breeding for a horse that can do both. A horse that is conformationally correct & beautiful to look at but also one that is functional?

I would be the first to admit that the current halter horses are beautiful, but they look fragile to me. Ive also noticed that the stallions dont always have a very masculine apperance. Some do, but most look very femine to me. I dont see many muscular horses that scream stallion to me.

On the AMHA website, under the standard of perfection: General Impression, it states "Refinement and femininity in the mare. Boldness and masculinity in the stallion - the general impression should be one of symmetry, strength, agility and alertness."

Im not sure Im seeing that in all horses.

This is just my opinion, and Im sure not everyone will see it the same way I do. This is not meant to start an arguement, Id just like to hear others thoughts on this.

 

[disneyhorse]

I'm not sure I'd make the statement that halter horses are finer boned and the performance horses are heavier boned. I sure do see horses that do both though, too! I think many times a breeder will pay $$$ to get their horse promoted in one or the other and then once they have titles, retire the horse. Very few people can spend the effort and money to do both, on a TOP placing scale.

But there ARE horses out there... the only one that comes to mind this very second is Candylands Best Kept Secreat who was National Grand in pleasure and halter... and I'm sure there are lots, lots more.

Some of the top driving horses aren't necessarily heavier boned but may have faults that make them less-than-halter. And let's face it, not all beautiful horses can move.

It's hard enough to find a horse that is exceptional in halter OR performance, much less BOTH!

Andrea

 

[Pepipony]

Just like the AQHA and other stock breeds. They have these gigantic bulldog halter horses that are SO dang 'big' with teeny tiny little feet. To me if a horse cant place in something other than halter, it does no good for the breed. JMHO

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Pepi, I could not agree more. We had this is Arabs and still do.

A very prominent Arabian Gentleman when asked, many, many years ago why he had placed a rather skinny horse first in a halter class, against all the overtopped, overfed, crazy youngsters in that class said

"In my country we have a strange custom.

We like to ride our horses, not eat them!!"

If my horses cannot do , or are at least not capable of doing, EVERYTHING I am going wrong somewhere.

What use is a horse that can look pretty standing still??

 

[Getitia]

Our entire breeding program is based on the fact that a successful halter horse can also be a successful driving horse. Form to function.

Here is one example

He has multiple wins in halter over 2 years at the National Level and last year he made his winning debut at the Nationals in driving - It can be done, but it is not easy. Horses should have the athletic ability and "mind" to do more than look pretty at the end of a lead rope -

Another example

 

[kaykay]

getitia what great examples!! i said on a previous thread and ill say again. the horses show in halter when they are younger then when they hit 3 they start showing in performance. too many people think because the horse only showed performance at a certain show that they never showed in halter. Our stallion crunch has his hof in halter and is being broke to drive this summer. After he starts showing in driving/performance we wont show him at halter anymore. We showed Tamale in halter when he was young and he is also started driving now. So when he goes back he will just show in driving. We just cant afford to do both at the same time. I think it works well though to do halter when they are too young to do performance.

 

[Jill]

Well, I love a nice halter horse who is built to perform and think both my stallions, my B gelding, and my A gelding fit the bill. Three of them have been very successful so far in Halter at the National level, and the other one will show the first time this year but I think he'll do well.

The A gelding is going to be professionally trained to drive (by Rhapsody Rhodes / Appy Hollow Farm) this fall. The B gelding will also probably be trained to drive this fall. The two stallions will be when they are old enough and they are SP type movers.

What I like about the halter horses I own is that they are refined but they are built in a way that doesn't make it seem like they could blow over in a stiff wind.

Here they are. I think they are BUILT and I think they do look masculine.

Ericas Echos of My Destiny, 2yo stallion, AMHR National Top 5, AMHA Honor Roll and Multiple Grands in both registries:

Ericas Gone and DunIT, 1yo stallion (pictured a little underweight and untoned but we are working on him and he's improving by the day!), AMHR National Top 10 / AMHA Honor Roll:

Tibbs Sundowner, 8yo gelding 3x National Champion / 6x Res. National Champion, Halter HOF w/ 197 pts:

Little Kings BT Bacardi Gold, 2yo B gelding, son of BTU, as of yet unshown:

I really feel these horses have the refinement you want in a halter horse yet also have a lot of substance. They've all either been bred by or hand picked by Erica Killion. One thing I have admired about her horses for years is that they are very nicely refined but they are also BUILT to do things horses are supposed to do. They are a lot more than just good for looking at!

 

[JeanH]

Scott Creek Fancy Pants is a AMHA National Champion in halter and AMHA National Grand Champion Single Pleasure Driving horse. He is a 2 time AMHA Best All Around horse at the National Show. Fancy is a AMHA National Champion Hunter horse too.

Fancy is also only points away from his Pinto Horse Association Supreme Champion status. To accomplish this, he had to successfully compete in halter, driving, jumping, halter obstacle and obstacle driving. To get this award, you earn a number points in halter with a required number of grand champions at a required number of shows under different judges. In performance, you have to compete in driving and "specialty" classes (jumping, halter obstacle and obstacle driving) - also at a required number of shows under a required number of judges. You earn points based on the number of horses you compete againsst. It is a very difficult award to obtain.

Stacy Score's Summer Rose is another beautiful example of a horse that could "Do it All".

Jean

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I hear this often and I always wonder.. wow are they seeing the same horses walk out of the National ring that I am ? I just dont find it fact that top winning halter horses are weedy, lack any substance and are fragile. In fact (this will sound different in print then if you could hear me so keep that in mind) I find most who say these things havent been to not only a National show but more then likely not lots of local sanctioned shows either.

Are they big and thick nope but then again a horse with a huge thick neck and to much body cant really move the way he needs to nor bend at the poll the way he needs to .

The horses I have seen in person walking out of the ring as Halter champs are truly well put togther, with body I do think the reality isnt in the horse so much but in the finances. It is very expensive to promote a horse to the National Level and on top of that most of these horses are plain and simple shown for a bit then promoted in the breeding shed.

I think there are far more horses that do cross over then people know and it isnt as simple as refined means halter and thick or coarse means driving.

Yes sometimes there are horses in the driving ring that couldnt cut it in the halter ring and vice versa but it simply goes back to finding the right job for the horse. I personally feel the breed is going in the right direction and the horses today are incomparable to the horses of the past say even 10 years.

 

[willowoodstables]

"as pretty is as pretty does" is my motto. In a halter horse, you want as close to perfect conformation as possible. Longer neck, tied in well with shoulders, clean throatlatch, sloping shoulder, level topline, good hocks well set under them etc etc. Read....you need the SAME conformation to have a decent driving horse. Period.

Thus IMHO if the horse is drop dead gorgeous and can't pull a cart, then we are breeding them too "chicken-hearted". A driving horse must have the right mind set, as a halter horse should (but we can "hide" it a lot better on the end of a lead, vesus a cart.

ALL my horses must meet a criteria of correct conformation, and they MUST be pleasing to the eye. There is NOT one horse in my barn that I wouldn't hesitate to show in halter. The head may be a little coarser than a true halter horse, but a blinker bridle hides a multitude of sins LOLOL.

That said, I think the fact it is easier and less expensive to show a halter horse (no cart and harness involved and less to haul around), I think that is why you see more halter horses than driving. It also takes a certain talent to break a horse properly, and this is still hard to come by. I like em "as pretty as pretty does."

Kim

 

[Kendra]

I'm very glad that we don't have the disparity between our various divisions that AQHA does, and I hope that our breed is aware of that and takes steps to preserve our "all around horses".

We've always bred for a horse that will do everything, with the conformation for halter, the athletisim for driving and jumping, and the temperament for obstacles and showmanship.

If we have a horse that doesn't drive and do other things, we sure have a hard time justifying taking it to a show for it's one halter class, no matter how good they look!

 

[Pepipony]

I'm very glad that we don't have the disparity between our various divisions that AQHA does, and I hope that our breed is aware of that and takes steps to preserve our "all around horses".

Ever watch an AQHA Western 'Pleasure' class? What is that odd crab jog/lope thing? GROSS !! Makes me sick to think that they do this. Even iller when they claim its 'natural'. Give me a break!!!! Even Reining has gotten into that fake convex frame. I Just hate it.

Marty, I'm with you. I often wonder if the Judge even actually looks at the horse, or if they just stand there daydreaming and award going by whom is on/handling whom.

Kendra, me too. I used to do everything with my ol man, from halter to reining. But we only did open shows, tried the breed show thing and it wasnt for me. I dont mind loosing, Lord knows I have LOL I just hate loosing to someone who breaks rules left and right and still wins.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I strive to breed a horse that will do both halter and driving. It isnt unusal at all..New Hopes Carbon Copy is a multiple grand champion halter mare and national top 5 halter and roadster.. Michigans TV Image has her halter hall of fame, single pleasure hall of fame and roadster hall of fame and was multiple times reserve national champion both in halter and performance. Sweet Tart is working on his halter hall of fame, is a multiple grand champion in halter and has now started driving training. Teddy, Michigans Father dowling, a gelding I owned now owned by Robert Samuels has multiple halter championships and national top ten in both halter and country pleasure. If a horse is bred right, they can and do accomplish both.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[sfmini]

We also strive for horses that can halter and drive. Three examples are LBFs Commodity Blues, AMHA and AMHR national champion and top ten in both, SF Mahogany Bay, AMHR reserve national champion senior stallion and AMHA top ten in driving and hunter. Then there is C Kings Running Brave, AMHR top ten over two year old and at 4 years old gunning for Driving at the AMHA World this year along with multi color and hopefully Ammy halter stallions.

 

[Amy]

We breed , train & show in both halter & performance.

Our Stallion Boones Little Buckeroo Charmer has many National Top Ten wins in the halter classes, He was Reserve National Champion in the Youth Obstacle Driving class(2004) and he has just last month completed hiis points for his HALL OF FAME in Country Pleasure Driving as well -- He is small -- 29 inches and he can do it all !!

We also have many other National Top Ten Horses at the farm, including our National Champion in the Chariot & our Team who took Reserve National Champion as well at 2005 Nationals.

They are also shown in Halter classes and have done excellent there as well.

It does take an enormous amount of time to train a horse for both halter & all of the performance classes.

However, at our farm, we all love to do the performance classes so it is worth the extra work & effort.

You also have to cart along many extras-- 2 or 3 show carts, same number of harnesses, show halters for halter classes, extra clothes for both types of classes.

Then all of those harnesses have to be cleaned & polished before each & every show -- and sometimes if it is wet & muddy -- again while you are showing.

I really think it is a personal preference as much as anything.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

off topic but for those that were talking about the QH and lope- I was at a AQHA show last weekend and the new term for the lope is lope with forward motion.. When I first heard it I kept asking is that a 2nd type of lope and was told no it is the new term to try and avoid those.. trotting in back kinda canters.

 

[Margo_C-T]

I have ALWAYS had, and used, the ALL-AROUND horse-and I want nothing else. I was that way when I had QHs, Paints(also showed Pinto), and I am that way with Miniatures. I recently got back the 'official' notice from AMHA on my TWO AMHA Champions-both geldings, both trained(and one, bred and raised, too)entirely by me. They haltered(I could care LESS about showing at halter, but I do want a horse that is conformationally very correct, so they DO halter). Both horses took Halter championships(one of them took a Supreme, as a gelding), excelled in not just various driving classes(one in Roadster, one not), but in Hunter, Halter Obstacle, and Obstacle Driving-even in Color(which, IMO, should NOT be a required class for an AMHA Championship, but is????)Both also excelled in Showmanship, but those points go to the handler, not the horse(I had a Top Ten Honor Roll in that.)The versatility, the challenge of training, is the REAL fun....yes, it IS easier to show horses only at Halter--but it's a LOT more fun, along with a lot more work, to develop their performance abilities, and then enjoy the fruits of that labor in competition, as well as in everyday use! (And yes, a horse does need substance, and conformational correctness-AND, a suitable temperment, and the HEART to work, to be a truly all-around horse-none of these can be missing! )

(and perhaps OT, but I HAVE to say....) HOORAY, Kendra, and Pepipony!! I STARTED in Quarter Horses, MANY years ago(produced my first registered filly in 1957), and it has made me VERY sad to see what has happened to the quinessential "all-around", American-made, breed.( I don't go to QH shows anymore-I used to work at the area QH shows, but just flat QUIT on the day that I was strolling down the horse arena aisle, and PASSED a horse 'trotting' in the show ring.....just couldn't take seeing that(and the sad, 'whipped pup', slab-sided look of the horses)any longer. I had gone to Paints in the mid-70s, but quit the stock-type horse show ring entirely when 'peanut rolling' and all its related CR*P got well-established, because I am NOT training a horse to 'go' that way. I was 'there' when the NRHA was started-I loved reining!-but Pepipony, you are right-it is just all about 'patterning',nowadays. As for the 'lope in forward motion'-why the HECK can't they specify that it must be an actual, true lope--that is, a THREE-BEAT GAIT-AND actually GO somewhere????? (Tearing out handfuls of my hair....AARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!) They flap their jaws, but nothing really changes......

Margo

 

[HGFarm]

Pepi and Rabbits I could not agree more!!!! Having some of the large breeds as well, I HATE what has been placing as halter horses. Many years ago I saw a pic of one of the Appaloosa mare halter champions. I swear she weighed 1400 pounds, and looked it, and wore a 00 shoe!!! It looked like they had taken a photo of a big horse and from the knees and hocks down, superimposed a pony's legs on it. It did NOT look good or even balanced that way

:

Our goal here also, is an all around horse that is pretty AND athletic as well!! And watch some of those halter horses move!! They really cant!

 

[Southern_Heart]

If that were the case then there would not be any Versatility classes!!!

JMO

Joyce

 

[ckmini]

A horse that is conformationally correct & beautiful to look at but also one that is functional?

I would be the first to admit that the current halter horses are beautiful, but they look fragile to me. Ive also noticed that the stallions dont always have a very masculine apperance. Some do, but most look very femine to me. I dont see many muscular horses that scream stallion to me.

Well not only are halter horses "beautfiul to look at and conformationally correct" but driving horses need that too. If you have a horse with a lower neck carriage and a thick short neck, they cannot set thier heads up into a bridle like a "conformationally correct" horse can. A horse with a steep shoulder cannot get the extension and lift on the front end that a sloping sholdered horse can. A horse with a weak hip, doesn't have the impulsion and drive from the hind like a horse that has a strong hip. Good driving horses are conformationally correct. I woun't go on about my horses but look at them, all have multiple stakes wins (even National titles in driving) as well as multiple grand champions in halter.

There is a huge difference between a "very masculine horse" and a fat coarse horse.

Don't take this personally, I've had a bad day, so sorry if I'm comming across as mean