Gelding those colts.

[Lizzie]

As some of you know, my daughter has Gypsy Horses. In the last year the Gypsy Horse breeders have been on a huge push, to encourage all colts to be gelded before sale, unless absolutely top quality. It's no secret that selling a less than breeding quality colt with a gelding contract or without papers, doesn't stop the new owner from breeding. Gelding seems to encourage sales and also secures (most usually) a happier life for the colt.

This came to mind, since I often see on all-breed forums, people who have picked up poor quality Mini stallions free or for next-to-nothing and immediately proudly offer them for stud services. Do any Mini breeders already do this or has it been discussed?

Lizzie

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Discussed alot.

We geld a high percentage of our colts and older stallions too. This year we did a two year old and his sixteen year old sire. This fall I have two more (possibly a third) yearling that will be gelded.

In the past I have sold a couple on gelding contracts, but don't anymore. If a buyer wants a Mini on a gelding contract, it is gelded before it leaves here. I'm lucky to only be 15 miles from UCDavis and they're reasonably priced ($100 +/-).

I think the biggest problem (not to use as an excuse), but the cost of gelding Minis in many areas ($300-700)for a colt that people have a hard time selling for $500 +/-, keeps many from gelding. It's a total money loss, if they can sell the same colt for $500 without gelding. (I'm just throwing out a price of what I've seen as of late on sales boards.)

Most responsible breeders do geld, but there are enough people selling unregistered stallions/colts for a few hundred dollars that all its' doing is taking what would be better than average colts out of the breeding pool (breeders stock) and allowing fairly low quality stallions/colts (mostly unregistered) to fill the gap. I'm not saying you can't find a good horse in this economy on Craigs List or the local auction as I've seen a few, but it's more of luck than consistency in quality. There are some wonderful deals out there for buyers right now, but 'cheap' shouldn't be the first thought when making a purchase.

A bigger push to make geldings the choice for pet homes, driving, and all around show horses helps and it's really changing the mindset of people (Nootka was one that helped change my view a few years back).

Now, when I get people out here that want a 'pet', but insist it must be a mare over a gelding, and they really want the mare double registered and cheap, it's highly likely they plan to breed but don't want to pay for a 'breeding quality horse'. I tend NOT to sell to those people. It's different than someone that dislikes geldings (bad experience, etc.).

Both registries have been offering gelding incentives, but I really wish they'd make the cost of registering geldings nominal and stallions fairly high. It won't stop everyone from breeding but will make you think twice if you can register a gelding for $10-20 or a stallion for $1-2,000.

Then again people will still breed unregistered Minis which hurts everyone.

 

[Sue_C.]

Exactly what frustrates me.

One very-very seldom sees a yearling _______ horse colt for sale. You will much more likely see geldings. Heck, I would geld my weanlings as soon as fall hit, both riding horses, or minis. "Everyone" gets on the bandwagon against "backyard breeding", yet they continue to pop those dozens of colts out and sell them off as colts/stallions...seriously...what is needed, is a reality check. NO...all of those cute little guys do NOT have to go forth and procreate. No..."Tom and Jane", who've likely never even owned a horse before...DON'T need that mare and stallion "starter package" so they can show their children the miracle of birth. How about taking them to a run-of-the-mill-dump-the-horse-auction so they can see the despair; the shocking result of over-population of horses in North America.

And NO...the price of gelding a colt can NOT be used as a pathetic excuse for selling them off as colts. If you cannot afford to geld them, and make a dollar, THEN DO NOT BRED MORE OF THEM. Period.

There...off my soapbox, but ready and willing to jump back on.

 

[Carolyn R]

I have been keeping low key on many topics, especially since I am selling all but two of my minis, I prefer to stay a bit more to myself. This is just one more thing that drives me crazy (the non-gelding of minis). I have to say that while one has the right to do what they will with their horses (and Lord knows I would not want my rights taken from me) I have found the attitude of many breeders, anyone from backyark to small and those not so small, to be "why should I geld and cut back on my market, it may not be breeding quality for me, but may work fine for someone else."

It is quite ironic that, when getting into minis 8-8.5 years ago, I have always hoped for the best and prepared for the worst. Paperwork, expenses, upkeep, not always having things go as planned have NEVER been an issue, number one issue for me, not being able to deal with many of the,.....ummmm, eccentric....individuals that go hand in hand with breeding.

Lizzie, too bad your daughter lives clear across the country,I am banking my funds and holding out for the dream horse I have always wanted, a vanner. Its time for us to get back to a point where we enjoy things again.

 

[Matt73]

I have a very correct, refined, gorgeous colt that I'm gelding...that could very well be breeding quality....BUT, I said I was going to keep this baby and I have no use for a stallion on the property

(and would geld before selling, too)

 

[CharlesFamily]

Yes, this topic has been discussed many times - and I think mostly it falls on deaf ears. Those of us already on the gelding bandwagon can yell at the top of our lungs, unfortunately, the ones who most need to hear this typically are not those participating on this board.

I only own geldings. I have no intention of ever getting into breeding again, regardless of how cute the foals are!

I live 30 minutes from the 2010 AMHR Breeder of the Year (Hi Getitia!). Why would I ever try to recreate what they are doing? And if I can't come close to competing with them and their amazing horses (and I know I couldn't and that is fine with me!), then why would I try to compete for sales in the same market? To me, it's like business. Yes, I could produce a sub-standard product and probably sell it to those who were looking more at cost than quality, but in the long run I would be harming the industry. And these aren't widgets we're creating, they're living beings.

Too many people think that if the small breeders quit producing, there will only be high-priced horses for people to buy who maybe can't afford high-end. That's just silly. Every farm has horses who aren't quite what they want for their program and mostly they want good homes for these animals. I am blessed with two awesome geldings because their previous owner was not afraid to make that decision.

I am completely a believer that if your horse is not WINNING in the AMHA or AMHR show ring (halter or performance) or other driving events, then they do not need to be reproducing. Show them, love them and enjoy them, but don't breed them just because they can! Bloodlines alone are not enough of a reason. For example, a horse that I love dearly, but everyone and their brother just about has one horse in their barn that has Buckeroo in their pedigree. Not a good enough reason.

Okay, jumping off my soapbox now, too!

Barbara

 

[Mominis]

Like Charlesfamily, I only own geldings--both of which I feel are exceptional quality (of course, who doesn't think so about their own horse?). Personally, unless one intends to actively breed and feels that the horse they are standing has somthing stellar to contribute to the breed as a whole, they should all be cut.

I think that any breed, be it Clydesdales or minis, should have a standard through the registry in which stallions may be approved as breeding horses. Maybe an approval process, as seen often in the WB market, or whatever. I just don't think a person or a business should be able to stand a stallion with registerable get that isn't evaluated objectively and approved for breeding within the studbooks. However, this opens a whole new can of political worms....

 

[susanne]

Ditto all that has been said except for the idea that those who need to listen don't come on this forum.

There are, sadly enough, many on this forum who get up in arms at the mere suggestion that most colts should be gelded. The very suggestion that they should be denied their lifelong dream of creating new unwanted foals makes them see red...until it's the ink on their bottom line, which leads to a dispersal sale.

Still others will agree that those fugly, ill-begotten colts THAT BELONG TO OTHER PEOPLE should be cut...but not their perfect specimens, hehe.

Sadly, in the miniature horse world, including LB members, you're either preaching to the choir or shouting into the wind.

 

[targetsmom]

We breed - at at least we try to - so I guess we are part of the problem too. But in over 5 years of breeding, the only living progeny from our breeding is a yearling GELDING. Yes, his older 1/2 brother Max was not gelded, but he was also - in his 2 month long show career - regularly beating World Champions. I wish that mini geldings were as popular as big horse geldings. We hope to produce performance horses that will appeal to people not just interested in making more minis. So as far as we are concerned, a colt is as valuable as a filly, except for the $450 it will cost us to geld him. Realistically, we expect that we may end up giving them away. Time will tell. Check back in a year and see if we are still breeding.

 

[lucky lodge]

great topic but here in australia you must have a vet check and a stallion certifiacte to make sure your colt is off the best quality

if not thay must not breed and be gelded.

but that doesnt include back yard breeders

 

[mydaddysjag]

Anything that comes here loses its gems. Actually my new stallion should consider himself lucky, he'll get to keep his treasure for a few more weeks. The vet wants to wait until it cools down a bit. She said she doesn't like to geld when the weather is so hot and humid. Gelding is already a surgery, and a lot of horses in this area have been having heat stress. The new guy is a very nice horse, 2007 Western Regional Champion Weanling Stallion, Top 10 in the 2007 AMHA World Show, top 5 AMHR nationals. Hes STILL not nice enough to keep his nads though...

 

[lucky lodge]

Anything that comes here loses its gems. Actually my new stallion should consider himself lucky, he'll get to keep his treasure for a few more weeks. The vet wants to wait until it cools down a bit. She said she doesn't like to geld when the weather is so hot and humid. Gelding is already a surgery, and a lot of horses in this area have been having heat stress. The new guy is a very nice horse, 2007 Western Regional Champion Weanling Stallion, Top 10 in the 2007 AMHA World Show, top 5 AMHR nationals. Hes STILL not nice enough to keep his nads though...

Got photos of him

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I am completely a believer that if your horse is not WINNING in the AMHA or AMHR show ring (halter or performance) or other driving events, then they do not need to be reproducing. Show them, love them and enjoy them, but don't breed them just because they can! Bloodlines alone are not enough of a reason. For example, a horse that I love dearly, but everyone and their brother just about has one horse in their barn that has Buckeroo in their pedigree. Not a good enough reason.

Love this! Our Buckeroo grandson, who is very cute, drives, jumps and does obstacle, has been sold to a 15YO girl and will be gelded as soon as our Vet says GO. JUST because he's a Buckeroo doesn't mean he gets to keep the twins. His foals were nice but average. We had kind of decided even before he was sold to lop them off and he hasn't been "used" for several years anyway.

Now the two other stallions we have are winning in both halter and driving and have sired very NICE foals. Neither one has any "blood" at all behind them. No Buckeroo, no Rowdy, no Arenosa.... but they can DO stuff and do it well! So they get to KEEP their jewels!

 

[kaykay]

Both registries have been offering gelding incentives, but I really wish they'd make the cost of registering geldings nominal and stallions fairly high. It won't stop everyone from breeding but will make you think twice if you can register a gelding for $10-20 or a stallion for $1-2,000.

Stallion to Gelding is now free for ASPC/AMHR

Please for all you gelding owners enter your gelding in the super gelding program!

www.supergelding.com

You can still nominate for this year!

 

[Tremor]

I gotta say this. I LOVE geldings. I have two of them, one a dwarf and one a yearling. They are so much more calmer than my mares. My two boys were calm before hand, but afterwards they are like, dead. Lol. I love them.

This year, we had our last foal. I was PRAYING for her to come out a colt. I was so excited to geld her. Alas.....she came out lacking the wee wee I was hoping for. Now she's an arrogant little filly which will soon become a bratty mare. Pray for me. lol.

Some people mentioned the prices for gelding minis. Around here its actually $100. That helped a lot of things for me to pay for. Had it of been $300-500 I would have struggled to pay for that. I doubt my parents would have let me geld my two little guys. I'm glad I did though. My boys are happier, my mares are SAFE, and the dwarfism won't be passed on by both boys. I just wish my mares were little studs instead. That way I could geld them.

It makes me nervous having the mares that I do.

I have a possible dwarf yearling, (a flashy 25'' silver black pintoloosa) a palomino pintoloosa, a dwarf mare, a cremello mare, and a palomino filly. It scares me having horses who are small and have "nice" colors. I would go crazy about selling them. None of them have the conformation or the genes that should be passed on what so ever. All I can do is hope that life stays constant for us and the horses. I wish there were cheap and effective PERMANENT birth controls for miniature mares. I would invest in five of them.

But I do think geldings are gold, lol. My two boys are my little brothers and angels. One of them even took up the position as herd protector. (and possible Man of the Herd!)

 

[Magic]

I completely believe in gelding colts. We have five mini geldings here and I'm hoping that my vet will be willing to geld the weanling colt this fall (last year she preferred to wait on the other weanling colt til spring). I LOVE geldings!

But-- there is some frustration with people, especially those with big-horse backrounds, who want a gelding but state their price range is "$200 to $400". I'm afraid that I replied to the last one by saying that her price range was the cost of a *gelding procedure*, not a horse.

 

[Lizzie]

I suspect if the cost were not so prohibitive in many areas (such as California) we would see a lot more people gelding their colts. There again, everything is more expensive in California. We cry when we hear how much people pay for vets, farriers and hay etc., in other states.

Lizzie

 

[Riverrose28]

God Bless the Geldings! They are the best suited for little kids, old people, and newbes.

Hubby caslls me the "Nut Cracker", cause I neuter the dogs and geld the colts. (It's crude, I know). We have three yearling colts right now waiting for fall, that is if they all drop, one is slightly cow hocked and head is just a little too long to be a great stallion, the other two are beautiful. The "B" colt is so gorgous I gave him to my grandson as a weanling, so he must be gelded to stay here, and the other one is great too, and three crosses to Gold Melody Boy, Boones Buckaroo, Little Kings Black Velvet(my favorite), Roan Ranger and NFC Sugar Boy, his dam is an Egyption King mare and his sire is our own Champion, but there are too many great stallions out there for him to stay intact. I believe a good stallion makes a great gelding.

The cost is prohibitive though if you want to sell, as you pay for papers, well foal exam when born, $230 here, then $260. to geld here, so in order to make a profit you would need to adjust the price accordingly. Of course if you are a softy like me and a little kid comes along and falls in love, well you get the picture.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Lucky lodge, here is a current pic of him setup out in the pasture in a barn halter. He looks awesome gooped up for shows. Hes calmer and quieter than my other show gelding, Im not gelding to calm him down, in fact I hope he doesn't calm down anymore. I dont plan to ever breed. Ive seen enough foaling tragedies on the forum and I dont have the knowledge to help a horse having issues foaling. Why leave him a stallion when I dont need him as one, and as a gelding he can have a companion?

Here he is as a yearling

Sorry Mo, call me cruel, but I cant wait to have you gelded.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

That's good to know Kay. I have a couple or three geldings that need to be 'changed' with AMHR.

Stallion to Gelding is now free for ASPC/AMHR

Please for all you gelding owners enter your gelding in the super gelding program!

www.supergelding.com

You can still nominate for this year!

I'd really like to hear more from other breeders on how they're managing this issue that faces us all. How are you (meaning breeders) contributing to quality control? promoting geldings? show incentives?

The current economy aside, is there anything as a group (all Mini owners) do to promote gelding more?

As the cost is prohibitive for many people, have they considered gelding clinics? I'm fortunate, as UC Davis is inexpensive versus the majority of the vets in this area. I've had other people's horses gelded too, when we're only doing a couple (UC Davis will do four max on a trip). I've also referred single horse owners to a rescue in the area that has monthly gelding clinics.