For those who don't feed hay

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MountainMeadows

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Hi folks

My hay supplier is worried about this comming winter and the quality of the hay that he will have available (can you tell that I am bit picky when it comes to this subject
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) Sooooo, I was thinking about the possibility of having to supplement my horses with beet pulp and alfalfa cubes and or pellets and might have to switch them over to this completely if the hay is too coarse for my "precious darlings
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"

Can anyone tell me if this is something that works for you -- are you only feeding the pulp/pellet combination, or are you also adding in grain and perhaps a small amount of hay.

Thanks a bunch folks!
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Stacy
 
Hi Stacy,

We so far have never had a problem with hay. Our friends that used to raise miniatures alot of them 100 head. They never fed hay, just grain, beet pulp and cubes. Their horses always were in good weight and looked great. So I dont think you will have a problem.
 
Hi Stacy.

As you know, I'm as picky as they come. I don't feel regular hay to Shake. I feed him TNT Chops ($9.95/bag at my local farm store, but you may do better ordering from the supplier directly).

In the show season, I use the Alfalfa only and in the off season, I use Timothy-Alfalfa. The quality is good, the product is consistant, and I've been really happy with the results.

http://www.tntforage.net/custom.asp?id=293934&page=12&shopperid=

I feed him one pound (on a scale) am/pm and three-quarters of a pound in the noon feeding here in the off season, plus his grain. In the show season, I was feeding three-quarters of a pound am and pm with one-half pound at noon. If you check out his photos from Nationals, you will see that he did very well on them.

The bag suggests one pound per 100 pounds of body weight.

Mimi
 
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I feed a product called Dynasty Pride. Its in cubed form and a complete feed and it has beet pulp in it. I also have available especially over the winter a molasses tub that basiclly a minerial supplement and its really good for them, it also works as good as a salt block, they drink alot when they lick this.
 
Does it take them as long to eat "chopped" hay as it does to eat hay from a bale? I am worried about their "chew" time, which they need because horses are grazing animals.

Apparantly here in Florida the local hay is Coastal (which horses do not like and have heard stories about colics from this hay). Other hay has to be shipped in which makes the "per bale" price a lot higher than I am used to when I lived in Oregon. Also, since the humidity is so high here, you can't store hay for a long time, because it will mold.

I am wondering if bagged hay would be a better choice...?

They do get out to graze during the day.
 
This is what the Timothy-Alfalfa looks like, right out of the bag, Linda. It does take as much chewing time, but not as much gathering and pulling time because they don't have to pull it from the flake.

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I've seen some beautiful Coastal from Texas that I completely envy you being able to get your hands on. We, in the midwest, must suffer through on chops and such though. Our grass hay here is garbage.
 
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Well, personnaly, I can't stand to not feed my horses hay. I have friends here that do not feed hay at all. We feed Bermuda hay and our horses like it. We also supplement with grains. I'm like LindaL, I think horses should be able to chew and the hay seems to keep them busy longer. We don't feed much hay, about a good handful per horse. But, I'm probably just old fashion. Obviously those that don't feed hay get along very well. Guess it's just what you feel comfortable with.

Pam
 
The hay this year is crap. We had a drought and its coarse like the end of my broomstick. I have drug the Hus all over this state and no matter where I went, its still quiet coarse. I have enough for now to tide us over but I'm going to need more. However going without feeding hay is not an option here. I tried all kinds of other options in the past during the last drought and it did not work as planned and actually backfired on me and I will not do that to my horses again. My friend is going out of state and she's going to bring some hay back they can eat.

Linda and Castle....Its true about the home raised Coastal Bermuda. It does cause gas colic down there. I have never had a problem storeing hundreds of bales of hay in a wood built pole barn shed, up on pallets and it was fine. The metal roofs down there contributes the hay going wrong.
 
Very interesting that you guys all don't like that Coastal. I did a show with a woman from Texas once and she had the most gorgeous Costal you could ever hope to see. It was just beautiful and, when I commented on the hay, she said her horses loved it. She had been feeding the same hay for years and not mentioned any problems. I'm going to have to check that out in detail if I'm ever in a position to be down South for any length of time. Wouldn't have even thought to question it, it looks so good.
 
When I was in Florida, I had good luck with Peanut hay, its not the tops of peanut plants but an actual grass its similar to alfalfa in nutrition, but cheaper than the prices for Alfalfa in Fl. its messy and weird to look at but it worked for me.

Here in South Carolina, I am able to find decent alfalfa for a decent price. My horses don't like and won't eat fescue hay they think its bedding so I don't worry too much about that but I have a non fescue dry lot for the broodmares.

Karen
 
Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies -- no internet at home these days, so had to wait to get to work and sneak in here to post.

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This is what the Timothy-Alfalfa looks like, right out of the bag, Linda. It does take as much chewing time, but not as much gathering and pulling time because they don't have to pull it from the flake.

timothyalfalfahaychops.jpg


I've seen some beautiful Coastal from Texas that I completely envy you being able to get your hands on. We, in the midwest, must suffer through on chops and such though. Our grass hay here is garbage.

That's some awfully brown, old looking hay
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I feed a timothy/alfalfa mix, too, and it does tend to brown a bit as it gets older, but should still be mostly green.
 
That's some awfully brown, old looking hay
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Marty, I've fed the TNT timothy/alfalfa bagged hay and that is indeed the way it looks. It smells good though and the horses love it & do well on it, so just something in the processing that "browns" it.
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Living in Texas, I've fed coastal hay to horses my entire life. I do insist on finer hay for the minis, and I have a couple who can't eat coastal anymore due to previous colic issues. But by and large if it's grown right and fertilized, it is good hay and it's abundant down here. I also feed alfalfa, but for "chew time" I don't feed the quantity they would need.

The TNT is a good product, and back to Stacy's original post, might be good to get your horses through winter. This is the first year in awhile that we've actually had good hay but I've relied on the TNT the last several winters to supplement what we've had.

Jan
 
Marty, I've fed the TNT timothy/alfalfa bagged hay and that is indeed the way it looks. It smells good though and the horses love it & do well on it, so just something in the processing that "browns" it.
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Living in Texas, I've fed coastal hay to horses my entire life. I do insist on finer hay for the minis, and I have a couple who can't eat coastal anymore due to previous colic issues. But by and large if it's grown right and fertilized, it is good hay and it's abundant down here. I also feed alfalfa, but for "chew time" I don't feed the quantity they would need.

The TNT is a good product, and back to Stacy's original post, might be good to get your horses through winter. This is the first year in awhile that we've actually had good hay but I've relied on the TNT the last several winters to supplement what we've had.

Jan

Well, if it smells good, they like it, and it keeps them healthy...then it's good hay
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Mominis said:
Very interesting that you guys all don't like that Coastal. I did a show with a woman from Texas once and she had the most gorgeous Costal you could ever hope to see. It was just beautiful and, when I commented on the hay, she said her horses loved it. She had been feeding the same hay for years and not mentioned any problems. I'm going to have to check that out in detail if I'm ever in a position to be down South for any length of time. Wouldn't have even thought to question it, it looks so good.
Maybe Texas Coastal and Florida Coastal are different?
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I know Eastern and Western Washington grass hay are very different feeds with completely different nutritional values. One is good and the other is only suitable for ruminants.
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Leia
 
I am another who doesn't like to not feed hay...and I feed a generous amount; all but the one described below gets some alfalfa AND some grass hay(here, that's a mix, usually of brome/orchard, sometimes w/ timothy, sometimes orchard only, always of good to excellent quality--don't like, won't feed, Bermuda...my personal choice), in proportions suited to each individual. That said, I have one mare, now 28 years old, who can no longer manage to properly chew hay (she's always had regular tooth care, and in fact, was 'done' again less than two weeks ago; her remaining teeth just can't do the job anymore; she 'guilted me, so I gave her a TINY handful of soft grass about three weeks ago...and shortly after, she choked! At the tooth floating, my vet opined that her teeth were likely the reason, and that might well be the case from now on, regardless of 'working on' her teeth--so, NO MORE hay!) She gets a 'complete' Senior feed from TC(@ 3 C./day), along w/ small alfalfa pellets(@4 1/2 C./day). This is keeping her in good condition...BUT, she is finished with her pellets very quickly, while the others are still eating their hay for a significant time afterwards.Luckily, she does not seem to 'stress' over it TOO much, though she often is clearly 'looking' for more of the 'eating experience', following me along the fence and sometimes giving her low nicker.(I should add, this mare will NOT eat soaked hay or soaked hay pellets...not gonna happen!)

I firmly believe that ALL of my others would be adversely affected by the frustration of not having enough of the 'grazing' experience; in fact, I've come to believe that providing enough of the kind of fiber that requires substantial chewing, as they would have in grazing(and which their digestive systems very specifically evolved to do)is the MOST IMPORTANT factor in maintaining digestive health(i.e., avoiding colic, ulcers,and other dangerous digestive upsets!)

I feel strongly enough that I've instituted 'slow-feeding' practices for all of my horses who eat hay, along with going to a three-times a day feeding schedule(actually, four times...I feed a 'full' feed of hay and(minimal)concentrates...in my case, TC Senior for the elderly mare, TC Lite alone or mixed w/ 'some' Senior for all the others, also stabilized ground flax, and salt added, to all..in the AM. Early PM, a lighter feed of hay; about 1 1/2 hrs. later, soaked beet pulp to all, w/ a very small portion of whatever concentrate each gets sprinkled over it. Then another GENEROUS feed of hay at bedtime.) Between the 'slow feeding' set-ups, and the generous amounts,my aim is to minimize the amount of time that they have NO fibrous feed in front of them.

I do NOT 'free feed' hay; with the high quality of the hay I feed, they'd all be WAY TOO FAT...and, with the cost of such hay, I can't see setting up for them to waste a good portion of their (grass) hay, which could be another result of such a practice.

I feed all of my horses but two, separately. I do have two geldings, my driving pair, together, because they eat at about the same speed, have similar appetites, and get a similar diet. They eat from a'homemade' 8' long feeder, originally built as a goat feeder, that I bought years ago(one of the best buys I ever made!) It is all-steel, hay rack of welded rebar above, feed bunkers below. Spacing between the hay rack 'bars' is about 3";to make it a 'slow feeder', I took a roll of welded wire w/ 2" X 4" openings, cut out four pieces as long as the hay rack, two pieces 16" wide, the other two 12" wide. I laid a 12" on top of a 16" with the spacing 'offset' to make all openings 2" X 2", then used a lightweight galv. wire to 'tie them together, maintaining those spacings, and did the same w/the other two pieces. Then I placed one 'completed piece at the bottom of each side of the 'V' of the hay rack,making sure the ends of the wires ties faced INWARD, and tied them to the rebar of the hay rack w/ cable ties, also making sure that the ends of these ties also pointed INWARD. It works VERY well; makes the horses work to get each bite of hay, and takes them at LEAST twice as long as before to consume an equal amount of hay! I may try building some similar 'inserts' for my 'hang-up' individual feeders,which I made out of 30 gal. plasic food-grade barrels and galv. thin-wall conduit many years ago!(I bought three of the "BUSY SNACKERS" slow-feed hay bags, but I can see that they aren't going to last as long as I'd hoped, and they are just too expensive, for me at least, to replace very often!

I hope this didn't seem too far OT; but I feel VERY strongly about horses needing to get a significant amount of long-fiber roughage. IMO, one might be able to 'get by' w/ a lesser amount of hay(if using hay pellets, hay cubes, soaked beet pulp, chopped hay, or some combo of same)by utilizing 'slow-feeding' techniques...but I REALLY believe that they should have SOME decent hay, always!I'd surely recommend doing as Marty is, and just keep looking until you find and get, just that....

Best of luck,

Margo
 
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I--so, NO MORE hay!) She gets a 'complete' Senior feed from TC(@ 3 C./day), along w/ small alfalfa pellets(@4 1/2 C./day). This is keeping her in good condition...BUT, she is finished with her pellets very quickly, while the others are still eating their hay for a significant time afterwards.Luckily, she does not seem to 'stress' over it TOO much, though she often is clearly 'looking' for more of the 'eating experience', following me along the fence and sometimes giving her low nicker.(I should add, this mare will NOT eat soaked hay or soaked hay pellets...not gonna happen!)

Margo
Margo,

I wonder if your little mare would benefit from one of the "pasture toys" that hold feed, like Amazing Graze. They are essentially an oversized treat toy, like what you can get dogs. You fill them with pelleted feed or treats, they roll them around to drop feed on the ground; if you don't want the feed on the ground, you could probably put the toy into a large feed pan or something to catch the pellets.
 
I've known plenty of places that feed exclusively hay cubes, and plenty of older horses that do just fine on pellets/seniorfeed/beet pulp.

However, I'm also one that prefers to feed hay if at all possible. When I go to out-of-state shows, I do switch my horses over to pellets (alfalfa and some other low-energy pellet like oat or timothy) because it's easier and cleaner to pack and ship. I just take a few weeks before the show to slowly transition them from their hay rations to the pellets, and visa-versa. My horses do just fine on the pellets, and actually you can get away with feeding less because it's easier for them to digest.

However, I do like the long-stem roughage they get from hay, as well as the mental happiness. My horses are always stalled as we have no access to pasture or large lots for them, so I feel that being able to browse through hay is very important. I also feed a large amount of grass hay, versus the high-quality alfalfa we have available here, where you would feed smaller amounts to get the same nutrition.

Good quality grass hay is important to me, and with high quality hay you don't get hay bellies anyway.

If hay is unavailable, I would not fret. I would feed soaked cubes (cubes typically have longer fiber than pellets, and with how small minis are, I would soak them out of caution).

Andrea
 
It is pretty common is So Cal to have no hay at the boarding stables. Most places feed cubes- and the horses do just fine on them.

We did free feed a few A & M but I can not even find that here wish I could but seems no feed stores here in Idaho has even heard of it.

I would think for those that can not feed hay for whatever reason adding beet pulp is a huge help. 1 cup of dry becomes 6 cups of soaked feed and allows them to eat more and feel full and take longer to eat even though nutrition and calorie wise they are only getting one cup.
 
Hay cubes are compressed hay (usually very high quality hay). That's not not feeding hay. I'd be perfectly happy feeding my guys hay cubes (if that's all I could get) and their ration balancer. That's all I fed to Willow when she was sick; hay cubes...all mashed and mushy with warm water. She loved it. Aren't there people that don't feed hay at all? I'm sure I've read on here that there are. ie. complete feeds etc.
 
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