For those of you that Pasture Breed..

[Mona]

I got a new stallion home April 27. I had a mare in heat so decided on the 29th, to put him in with my mares, and try him at pasture breeding. I really prefer to hand breed, so I know exact dates, but thought I would try him with pasture breeding. I moved my two two year olds to a different pen, and let him on. This was on the 29th. All WAS going well, as far as I knew, up until today!

A little about him...he is 3 years old, and 29.75". He has never been in with mares, has been pastured with others around his age.(stallions) Never been with mares, never bred a mare.

He did well, breeding a 35.5" mare his first day in. Then I noticed he started running the 2 yearling geldings I had in with the mares. The mare he had just bred, was the dam of one, and she protected them, keeping the stallion rounded off and away from the colts. However, I decided it would be safest to move them out of there also, so now he was in with mares and foals only.

Today, I noticed he was running the daylights out of one of my mares. That was bad enough, but was made worse by her having a filly at her side that was being forced to run too. This was NOT play....he was SERIOUS! He was right on her butt, and she kept kicking and kicking. Nothing stopped his craziness!

I noticed when it started, that he was "dropped", so am thinking maybe she is in heat and wouldn;t let him breed her, so he retaliated?? She is a mare that has been kind of hard for me to get settled, as she is hard to tell when she is in heat or not.

I tried opening a gate to get the mare to run through, so I could get her away from him, but she just kept running by. This is in a fairly large pasture, anhd through trees, over rock hills, some wuith steep side to go over if not careful! NOT a place to be running in a crazed state of mind! This did not work, so I thought I would grab the grain and put it in the feed dishes along the fenceline, hoping they would notice, and come for that. After a few minutes, they were slowing down, interested in the grain. I was able to catch the stallion and put him back into a pen of his own.

WHY was this going on? Was he that frustrated? There are others in heat willing to stand for him. WHY did he go after this one mare like that?? I am sure not going to take chance like that again!! I guess I should have just listened to myself and stayed with the hand breeding.

Is this a "normal" even if occassional occurance that a stallion practices on a pasture breeding situation? This is a sweet stallion...easy to catch, halter and handle, minds his manners, not mean or nasty. I was shocked to see this side of him!

 

[Reble]

I am just guessing, but thinking he is just going through a pecking order. Since he has only been with stallions, he has learned to be aggressive. Yes, can look like he is ready to kill.

Try to find the top mare, and socialize them first. If possible put the mare and him at night side by side in a stall. Than in about two or more days, but him out only with that mare.

He needs to find the top mare, an become a partner to feel comfortable. Also a mare to teach him manners.

Has he been nose to nose with everyone he is being put out with. I always make sure they have the time to smell each other through my circle pen for at least a week. Than put him out with a couple at a time. Usally one aggressive mare and one down on the pecking order.

Hope this helps, always have pasture bred, and have my gelding, my stallion and mares with babies as one unit.

All my minis are socialized together.

Some will say lucky, I say good training and teaching it slowly.

Aslo have had my babies stay until they where a year old. My Stallion did most of the babysitting.

He just needs some tuning in and the best one to do this, is the mare who is head of the herd.

Good Luck don't give up, it can be done without anyone getting hurt.

 

[Reble]

Sorry something is wrong with trying to post.

 

[Reble]

don't know why duplicated.

 

[kaykay]

also keep in mind some stallions and mares just dont like each other. sounds to me like he was trying to breed her and she wouldnt let him. shes probably a mare that has to be hand bred especially when she has a foal. just like people not all horses get a long romantically

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I've heard of this in larger horses. I was watching a show on the wild brumbys of australia, and the stallion did this to one of the mares. Apparently, the mare wouldn't allow him to breed her, so he decided to run her until she tired out, to make the breeding easier. I am not a pro, and this may not be what happened in your case, just what I saw.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Mona, this is just one of the MANY reasons I do not pasture breed.

That and the fact that I do actually want all the mares in foal, not just the ones whose colour he likes

Some colts, and this chap is just a colt, just are not up to the job, coupled with the fact that he has had no socialising.

I would NEVER have geldings in with mares and foals, let alone turn an entire out with them- Gosh, someone was watching over you, you are SO lucky no-one was seriously hurt.

Basically my advice is bite the bullet, bring him back in and breed in hand, this year at least.

Next year, break it down into easy stages- Mare in season, loose.

Mare in season with foal at foot, loose.

Both mares loose with stallion to whom they are formally introduced.

And so on until his herd is built up to where you want it.

And please, for the sake of my blood pressure, no more geldings out with them??

:

 

[Frankie]

Not to change the subject,

but Jane,

I do not see why the geldings can not run with them.

Just curious.

I know many, many who run their geldings with their mares and foals.

I think I have always had a gelding with the girls, right now I have 2.

I have never, ever, never had a problem, actually, my gelding Wings, protects ALL of my horses.

Just wondering.

 

[capall beag]

Hi Mona,

I am no expert but have seen this before.

I think it is just a case of a young stallion on hormone overload!

I think it was just too much too soon for him. Try pasture breeding him to just 2 mares, this way he can learn the way of doing things!!

Your mare with foal is probably in season or coming in and he is so anxious to breed anything he is being over zealous, and it would seem with the wrong mare. I have seen young stallions do this before, they focus on one mare at a time and are very determined to breed. My Miracle did this and he was similar in temperament to your little guy. He ran the heck out of one of my girls, he terrified her and he got the crap kicked out of him but to no avail. I quickly seperated them. One on one in the pasture he was a gentleman stallion, although highly efficient at his job

: he learned how to be a tad more diplomatic in his approach

: He became very suave and got the job done fast!!

I think your little stallion just didn't know what to do with himself so he went overboard

:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Carolyn, it is hard for me to answer without sounding hypercritical and /or arrogant, neither of which are helpful to Mona!!!

What I will ask is would you do either with a 15.2hh horse???

 

[kaykay]

carolyn i also put my stallion with a gelding but never when hes breeding. Its just their instinct to want no other males around when they are breeding mares. Also some geldings are so protective they wont let the stallion breed the mare. Just not worth taking a chance on.

Kay

 

[txminipinto]

To answer the gelding question: just because a stallion is gelded doesn't mean he or any other stallion knows it. Some geldings (with retained testicular tissue or not) can still act stud-y. These studish geldings can still drop and penetrate injuring mares. Also, stallions (or geldings that think they are stallions) may hurt a foal if they think it's not from their genetic pool. Geldings turned out with mares may take on the role as herd sire and protect their band of mares. If you throw a true stallion into the herd, the males will fight for the stallion position. Some people turn geldings out with mares w/foals others do not. Personally, I would not recommend it.

When I owned big horses, I had a gelding that would mount (I never SAW him penetrate) any mare that was in heat. I was lucky and never had any issues, but the risk was always there.

 

[txminipinto]

To answer the gelding question: just because a stallion is gelded doesn't mean he or any other stallion knows it. Some geldings (with retained testicular tissue or not) can still act stud-y. These studish geldings can still drop and penetrate injuring mares. Also, stallions (or geldings that think they are stallions) may hurt a foal if they think it's not from their genetic pool. Geldings turned out with mares may take on the role as herd sire and protect their band of mares. If you throw a true stallion into the herd, the males will fight for the stallion position. Some people turn geldings out with mares w/foals others do not. Personally, I would not recommend it.

When I owned big horses, I had a gelding that would mount (I never SAW him penetrate) any mare that was in heat. I was lucky and never had any issues, but the risk was always there.

 

[Mona]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Reble, I really don't think it was a pecking order thing. To me, it seemed to be more of a (sexual) frustration thing? He was in with the top mare too. She was the one he bred his first day in there. She is also the one that kept the young geldings safe. When he bred the other mares, he was not studdy at all. I am serious, he was VERY much the gentleman! He tried breeding, and if the mare would circle and he was unable to hang on and penetrate, after several tries, he would give up, and just go back to grazing. He is a very calm fellow, and that is why I was SOOOO shocked to see this side of him. I really think he really hated that particular mare because she wouldn;t let him near her. Before I put him oput with the herd, he was nose to nose with them for 2 days, sharing a common fenceline.

kaykay, and KanoasDestiny, yes, I believe you are right. This was the feeling I got from watching them. However, he was not charging at her with teeth bared or trying to attack her with his mouth, he was merely running her with no let-up in sight! This mare acts scared of stallions, and maybe he sensed that and when she tried staying away from him, it prompted him to terrorize her all the more, I don't know.

rabbitsfizz, I am not sure what you mean by no sociallizing? Do you mean with mares specifically, because he was in a group setting, but they were all boys. I also don;t know why geldings cannot safely be pastured with mares and foals? These colts were gelded at 3.5 and 6.6 weeks of age. They have never had the chance to know what a sexual drive is. They are only yearlings now. He is out, and believe me, I do plan to continue with my handbreeding, as I have almost always done in the past. I did pasture breed some mares last year, but that worked out well. I guess I should have just left well enough alone, and not bothered to change things. Just got lazy I guess! I won;t be turning the stallion back out with the mares, but the gelding colts definately will be returned to the mare group.(one has already, the other is now in for company for a yearling stallion)

Frankie, I think what rabbitsfizz meant was to not put the geldings in with the mares when you have a stallion in with the herd?? I jave not had any problem with these geldings in with the mares.

capall beag, thanks for the tips...maybe another time years down the road, or maybe when I have more than one stallion to breed with, but for this year, it looks like I'll be doing all hand breeding for the remainder of the year. I am thinking if I put this particular mare in with him, I am sure the same thing would happen. I was most concerned because she had a small foal at her side, and I sure didn;t want her running so hard like that for so long. :no:

txminipinto Well, I guess the mistake was mine for adding the stallion to the group of mares when there were geldings in there to begin with, even though I removed them when I first noticed any trouble. I guess I assumed because they were still only yearlings, and already gelded, they would be OK.

So yes, I guess I am always still learning!

 

[txminipinto]

Mona,

No mistake made if nobody got hurt! I can understand your concern when you saw that behavior! I had a very good friend turn out an inexperienced stallion (note INEXPERIENCED) with a group of mares. Everything was fine until he started to persue one of her formal show mares - a very valuable mare. He chased her almost into the ground before I was able to convince this friend to seperate them.

We make the mistake thinking that "natural instincts" will take over in these situations. Unfortunately, these horses are never raised "naturally" therefore they don't learn the proper ways of equine heirarchy. Stallions in the wild must fight for their mares and the mares are exposed and learn at a very early age what stallions are all about. When you take un-educated stallions and throw them into a group mares, its sensory overload and they don't know how to behave, especially with "special" mares that need some foreplay and sweet whispers.

:

 

[Stacy Score]

Mona,

I have been in the same boat as you, but thankfully there was no foal at side. It is terribly distressing to witness and one of the reasons that I don't pasture breed. I have found that if a stallion has a particular dislike about a mare that if you can handbreed them thru a heat cycle that often after that they are more tolerant. So since I like to be able to turn my stallions out with my mares, I hand breed in the morning with the mare that I think is the "hottest" and then turn my stallion out for the day - and then handbreed him again at night. To be truthful this seems to work well, he is not frustrated and kind of hangs out on the perimeter of the mare herd all day, and the "hussies" amble over to where he is if they want to get bred, sometimes he does the deed, and sometimes he doesn't think it is necessary - but all in all it is working well and my boys are happy campers, the mares get bred and the foals are safe!

Stacy

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Hi Mona,

I've seen stallions run mares when a stallion is trying to assert his dominance - usually a new stallion that doesn't know how to pasture breed will do this. We only put mares/stallions together in the cool part of the day for that reason and we stay with them until everyone is getting along agreeably. I don't like to see foals distressed. Our junior stallion is in with two mares right now and tried the running thing - well they (two of our dominant mares) straightened him out quickly. The babies in with him were literally running laps around him as he was a bit out of shape being in a smaller pen for a few months and they've been in a 2 1/2 acre pasture.

Some mares will accept a stallion as 'the stallion' quickly, other won't. Generally this happens with new or inexperienced stallions that we've seen. I've only once had a stallion mare combo that absolutely hated each other (loved each other through the fence, but not together). We removed the mare. She was a maiden at the time and they were both ready to kill each other – there is a definite difference between the dominance stuff and ‘I’m going to hurt you’!.

As for keeping geldings with mares. A mature stallion will view anything that isn't a mare or foal as a rival. We have one that is in with our mares 24/7 and has been since he was born seven years ago. He was gelded at 9 months, so has never acted 'studdy'.

But, he's not in with a breeding stallion ever - that is a recipe for disaster. When Woody was a yearling he did get in with our stallion and the mares Woody normally ran with - well he found out that wasn't a good thing! He lives with our main broodmare band year round which is good as he's a good size B mini, that dislikes canines and makes a good babysitter.

Our geldings that are older that 'think' they're stallions still, live with our other stallions in a bachelor herd on their own acreage.

 

[Christine]

I remember someone else asking this question a while back it got slamed down but i was still curious as to why the stallion was doing that as well glad people anwsered this post good to know.

 

[Kendra]

Last year our new boy, Raz, got it into his head that he hated Bobbi ... he would run her and run her, even drawing blood. Obviously that wasn't going to work! We did try once more, putting her back in with him once they were in a big pasture, but still he'd spend all his time after her. So we took her out and bred her to Tibbs instead (who likes her!) and got this:

It's funny too, because Raz is kind of a chicken with most of his girls, and it wasn't the colour or anything, because he had other sorrel pinto mares, even marked similar to her. Anyway, we're not even going to try again, he's got lots of other mares to breed, Bobbi can be bred to the stallion that likes her!