Food aggression

[zyndyna]

I need ideas on how to deal with a food aggressive mare that I have. She is aggressive to people and and other horses. How can I work with her on this?

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I had a colt that was extremely food aggressive. Keep in mind this was an extreme case so extreme measures were called for.

I would enter his stall, he would turn his butt to me and back up fast, I whopped him just as hard as I freakin could with a whip and just screamed at him, then dropped it immediately and gave him another chance. Repeat until I got a front end. Hay did not go down and he did not get a bite until he was pleasant and out of my space. No 'sassy face.' Said colt came over a fence at me to 'guard' his hay, so I punched him in the nose. Another horse would've kicked him in the face - don't think a hit from my rebuilt shoulder could hurt that bad. I then drove him off his hay pile like a boss mare would, then allowed him to come back. Repeated a few times that day.

We had to have TWO lessons and he magically decided it wasn't a great idea to guard his good from me. However, a small child / timid stranger he will still be sassy too.

Work on letting her know YOU are in charge. It is your hay you allow her to eat? Is that not correct? Get that attitude! But don't get hurt! Consult a pro if need be, but ground work on respecting your space is always always always where I start. Said colt I mentioned above knew that concept well, just turns into a freakin 'poophead' at feeding time

 

[Minimor]

Aggression to you--what was said above.

Food aggression to other horses--I don't try to change that. I simply would feed the horses far enough apart that she isn't so likely to feel threatened by the others--and they won't feel threatened by her. Put out one pile of hay extra--5 horses. 6 piles of hay. Grain--separate her while everyone eats his/her ration.

 

[zyndyna]

Thanks. So far I personally haven't really had a problem with her, but previous owners had a problem with her kicking if you tried to walk into the stall while she was eating. I have only had her a few days and so far the only major problem I had was when one of my other Minis slipped into her stall behind her and that ensued a war. Other then that she has laid her ears back at me during dinner and I just didn't give her anything to eat till she stopped. I am just wanting to get ahead of the game so I can correct as I see it happen because I know she is just starting to get settled in.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

You may try going into her space with a short whip. Use it as an arm extender to move her back out of your space. Sounds like you are aware that you need to start out well with her.

When you are asking her to move out of your space, focus on yourself as a giant. Swell up and hold yourself with a strong tension. No sweet talk, and perhaps nothing vocal at all unless it is a stern command. Say her name, then command her to move.

This is an exercise I need to work on myself constantly, as I am a softy. My horses begin to take advantage of me and I have to renew my authority. If I could discipline myself to focus all the time we would all be a lot better off!

 

[Miniv]

What Marsha said... To teach her to stay out of your "space", I've used a riding crop.

I will place it between me and the horse and if the horse crowds me, the horse gets poked.

Find a command that suits you...I use "Back Off".

When we feed more than one horse in the same area, we just place the food far enough

away that the horse needs to travel to invade....The more aggressive horse will often

just want to check both piles/dishes and before settling on one. If we place the food

too closely, the aggressor will try to guard BOTH.

 

[lkblazin]

I had a mare that was people aggressive in general. She bit and kicked me and anyone else that was near her. So when she came to bite me/ charge me she got a knee in the nose. She may be 30inchs but wow. And she was not a real kicker, shed rather use her front half to attack. Now she loves me and will go to the ends of the earth to protect me. I believe that in some respect horses need to be treated socially by us as they would by another. My girls know I have a look that means back off. When I give them that look its stop or go button. But when I do it they are supposed to freeze and wait for the next que.

 

[shorthorsemom]

I halter and tie the horse... feed... then let the horse go again once food is gone. I do not brush or pet while feeding. I do not approach while holding feed bucket. I catch...halter, tie, go get feed bucket, feed.. then when feed is all gone.. approach, untie and unhalter.

No hitting, no yelling. Just show this horse .. "no tie... no food" . If I cannot catch and halter this horse, that is a different training program all together. No hand feeding on food aggressive horses.. Stand near by while horse is tied in case of problems. I have a hay rack and they can eat from both sides and circle. If I push the hay rack up against the fence the food aggressive horse will pin the other. No matter how much hay is in the rack he will defend it. With the ability for him to own a whole side of the hay rack and the ability of the other horse to move out of his way, the fights are gone...

I have two horses. I have tied both during training process. It takes time, it is worth it. They both eat in a designated spot. Now I do not need to halter either, they stand in front of their buckets. They eat and do not compete. If I feel the "feed tude" is returning, we go back to haltering and tied horses.

My problem was with one gelding that would squeal and kick and protect his feed both pellets and hay. Tied for feeding took away his shark attitude, allowed him to relax because this is the rule. It also makes a nice horse to catch because reward for halter and tie is food.

Since he also would attack my other horse when I was approaching with the hay... I walk to my hay storage area, toss a bit on the ground over the fence as I walk by. Piggy boy goes for the tidbit of hay... I then have time to take the bulk of the hay to my hay rack.

This system works very well and has created a very nice happy boy out of the little stinker he used to be... He used to bite at me and the other horses and everything around him prior to this training. He now has an expectant happy face and knows the rules..

 

[zyndyna]

Thankfully so far the only problem I have had was one of my girls slipped into the same stall with her out of confusion (used to be her stall ) which in-sued a full out kicking war. Other then that she has been fine. I feed her in a stall with her trough at the door so no one disturbs her while she eats and she has been ok. All the advice helps so I know what I need to do if it escalates. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[AngC]

I don't use whips/crops; they're always hanging on the barn wall when I might need them. I have used the really long whip once when my husband left a barn door open, and the girls escaped to richer pastures--I used it as an extension to our spread arms to herd them back in.

I'm puzzled by the comments about keeping the horse "out of your space." Why would you do that? Much of what I want our horses to do occurs in what is "my space" ???

If you've only had the animal a few days, wouldn't it make more sense to wait and see a bit? ...see how she reacts to you and her new surroundings?

Baby went through a phase where she laid her ears back at me; I just set a finger behind each ear and pushed them forward for a few seconds until she got tired of ear pinning. If somebody kicked me, I'd smack them hard with my hand and probably yell at them. I've only been kicked once, and it was the first day for Nicky, and I was being horse-dumb.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I really only use a whip when I knew Eddie was going to be aggressive. I wanted to smack him from far enough away not to be kicked. I knew he was going to fly backwards at me to kick. Wanted to catch it in the fly backwards stage. But no I usually don't carry a whip. Horses are smart. They figure out quick they only have to be good/will be smacked if needed when you're holding it.

I've always hit horses int the face, with a whip, etc when needed. Being that I take on a lot of extreme cases, it's probably more than most need to. But, I have never had a head shy or whip shy horse. They should know WHY they are being smacked, and if the reaction isn't either a) 'holy poop, you actually stood your ground!' Or b) 'yeah, ok, I deserved it.' It was probably too harsh and uncalled for. Now, a 'boss mare head shake' from me will get Eddie to knock it off.

You want horses out of your space as a sign of respect. My 'bubble' is slightly smaller than my arms length. They stay out until they are invited in. It's also a matter of safety.

 

[Minimor]

I personally do not care if a horse is close, in my space, as long as they are not being pushy or trying to bite. I do not have pushy, aggressive horses, they are polite and well mannered. There is a line they cannot cross, and they soon know where that line is. I rarely have to remind any of them of it.

 

[AngC]

I really can't see whacking a horse on the head with a whip. I'm not anti-whip or anti-discipline. But...

If whipped Coco in the head with a whip I would lose about 2 years of progress with her. She's rather independent, but she's smart.

I guess if NIcky "got in my space" I could beat him on the head; I suspect it would be for naught, since he can't see; he'd freak out wondering why I was beating on his head.

That said, there are different circumstances for all. For example, I was checking out a horse trainer in this area (on the internet.) Then I heard through the rumor-mill that they use electric cattle prods. That didn't seem like my cup of tea; but, not long after, Baby went under one of our electric wires when we were opening the gate for her ---bad precedent--- so when Baby tried it the next day, my husband zapped her on the nose with the gate-handle. Baby really respects that electric now! Is that all that different than the trainer using the cattle prod?

 

[Minimor]

The danger in whacking a horse in the face with a whip--if you happen to strike the horse across an eye you could cause serious eye injury.

Ang...teaching a horse respect for an electric fence is one thing--I have moved the hot wire to deliberately touch a horse with it...but I have never been able to see ANY value in using a cattle prod on a horse. I guess it would have to be one heck of a rank horse that was intent on running me down and stomping me into the ground--just can't imagine needing to use one for anything less.

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Ang C i would NEVER hit a horse around the head with ANY Item be it a whip, hand, rope. I have seen to many horses over the years (mainly thoroughbreds) that are that head shy from being struck around the head, some are beyond repair. My own TB now 14yo came to me as a 7yo and took over two years before the trust was gained. Any sudden movements around his head and he would assume he was going to cop it and flip out.

There are far better ways to help a horse find his/her "manners" than to belt it in the head with a whip. And there are far better methods of training to get a horse to respect your space.

And as Minimor said you take a massive chance that you may do serious eye damage to something you really do care about

 

[Danielleee]

I don't use whips to correct horses. Then again Ive never had a horse bad enough where I felt the need to. (except while lunging but thats different) using a whip on a face? no. never.

a crop? yes if I had to. (dont carry those either but situations vary) but crops are usually a long enough extension of your arm to get the chest or butt.

hands however YES I will most certainly hit a horse in the face if it bites me or tries to. Out of the 14 horses we have right now almost all of them have been hit in the nose one time or another some a lot more than others because they were mouthy and none of them are head shy. Some people go completely overboard though when its not necessary. Now horses being in your space.....my own horses are allowed in my space because well I'm normally all up in their space haha kisses and scratches and cuddles galore. But they know if I don't WANT them in my space and I push them away they will respect that. My grandmothers yearling however has no concept of personal space and shes pushy about it so she gets corrected.

And touching a horse with the fence or turning the fence on while their touching it is COMPLETELY different than using a cattle prod! Respecting the fence is absolutely necessary. They usually figure it out themselves though.

And about food aggression since that was the main question, everyone else had good suggestions and I'm glad you're not really having a problem with her!

 

[AngC]

Good point Danielleee, the original topic was about food aggression. I observed Coco doing that to Baby a few times... swinging her head at Baby and making a chomping noise. I just stayed out of it and watched from a distance: No harm; no foul.

Sorry, I guess I wandered off-topic, mostly because I read mention of whipping a horse in the head. Minimor's and Ryan's comments made me realize that I was having a knee-jerk reaction, because I have a mostly blind horse (not from whipping on the head, but from cataracts and an eye injury) which cost lots in vet bills, but even more in ongoing heartache. And he now gets his fat butt in my space all the time, but I don't have the heart to turn him away. It may not bother Nicky to run his head into the side of the stall, but it bothers me so he's all in "my space" at feeding time when I steer him away from the side of the stall.

Anyway, I'll shut up now. (I really don't like the terminology of "in my space") I reckon.