Foal color question

[Shaladar]

Here is lil Zippy...he looks to be a silver bay? Or a silver dapple? You can see the dark on his back and the dark stripe down his tail.....it isn't black though, more of a dark brown. His legs are silvery, and his mane is already getting lighter. He does have stripes on his hooves. He is 6 days old. Both parents are registered as Chestnut or Sorrel. Can 2 chestnuts/sorrels have a bay? I will post pictures of sire & dam in the next post.( edited to add....whoops, they all came in the same post.)

sue

Here is his sire

he does have some light hairs in his mane. His dam is black , sire is sorrel.(I've seen them both in person)

here is colt, mom and a bay. Is mom a chestnut?,(she is in winter coat & color, clipped on belly with a 10) Her sire is buckskin and his sire looks like a silver bay.

Added:..went to the Stud Book online....Pearls dam is listed as SCS (chestnut) and in her background is SBK (black), DGR (?) and ANB (?)

Thanks!!!

 

[slaneyrose]

His dam looks silver bay to me...which would mean he could be bay....which he does look to me....his tail will probably go black like his mane as he gets older.

 

[Shaladar]

Thanks, Slaney.....his mane is also brown with very heavy silvering.

His dam can be a silver bay without any actual silver?

These mini colors are so confusing.....I liked the good 'ol days with the Quarter Horses..LOL

I have Minis here that I know are not the color that their papers say they are, (dun, sorrel, etc) but I have no idea what color they really are...LOL

Sue

 

[yankee_minis]

Mom doesn't look like a bay to me-- although she does have the light brown on the nose. So she's not black. I don't see silver bay either- I used to have several and I don't see it here.

I see smokey black or chocolate or some sort of dilute. Her sire was a buckskin, right?

Your baby's tail is not unusual for foal color. It's supposed to be some sort of camouflage.

 

[Dona]

The Colt definitely looks to be a Silver Bay to me.

Sire is sorrel....but could be Silver-Sorrel, as the mane (what I can see of it) looks like it could have silver hairs in it.)

Dam also appears to be a Silver Bay....Altho, she is a very dark bay (black/bay) And her mane & tail have very obvious silver/gray hairs in them. Another possibility for her would be a Silver Smutty Buckskin. Either way, I believe she is carrying silver.

: What many don't understand, is that Silver Bays or Silver Buckskins often don't have the very light "silvery/white" manes & tails. They can sometimes show as little as a mix of dark gray hairs in the mane or tail. These Silver horses don't always have those "perfect" silvery-white contrasting manes & tails.

 

[mizbeth]

Yes momma could be smokey black? Definately has characteristics of black/bay horse though.

Pretty baby tho., congrats!

Beth

 

[keeperofthehorses]

Zippy sure is a cutie pie.

:

I'd put money on his mama being black-based, not red. I think it'd be worth the $50 or so to have her tested for black and cream; oh heck, if it was me, I'd throw in Agouti too! Daddy could hide Silver and Agouti with his red. Mama could also carry Silver and just not express it as 'loudly' as some we see. Zippy looks to me to be Black + Agouti, and I'm wishy-washy on the silver since foal coats are hard for me. It'll be interesting to see how he sheds.

I love this stuff...

 

[ab_smf]

looks bay..silver bay but wow gorgeous baby!

:

 

[Shaladar]

What many don't understand, is that Silver Bays or Silver Buckskins often don't have the very light "silvery/white" manes & tails. They can sometimes show as little as a mix of dark gray hairs in the mane or tail. These Silver horses don't always have those "perfect" silvery-white contrasting manes & tails.

Ahhhh, I didn't know that

:

From Keeperof the horses:

I'd put money on his mama being black-based, not red. I think it'd be worth the $50 or so to have her tested for black and cream; oh heck, if it was me, I'd throw in Agouti too! Daddy could hide Silver and Agouti with his red. Mama could also carry Silver and just not express it as 'loudly' as some we see. Zippy looks to me to be Black + Agouti, and I'm wishy-washy on the silver since foal coats are hard for me. It'll be interesting to see how he sheds.

I love this stuff...

I think I'll do that...so...is there a web site for more information on Color Testing?

I love this stuff too.

: ...even though I don't understand half of it

: ....think I'm going to change that and do some studying.

Thanks for the opinions and complements on the lil guy.....I'm planning on him being my futurity gelding

: I was really hoping that she would have a colt. Then when he appeared to be a Silver bay , I was overjoyed, (though wondering where that color came from)..as I LOVE silver bays.

Sue

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think the mare is Smoky Silver Black and I think the colt is just Bay.

Cream has this funny effect on Silver and prevents the mane and tail from going the classic cream/white colour usually associated with Silver Black.

I also think the sire maybe Red Dun- although it is hard to discern from just one photo.

Sorry Dona, here we go agian....

Current thinking is Silver does not show on Red- I have had and still have many, many Chestnuts exactly that colour with no Silver in their pedigrees at all.

Anyway, the sire is obviously supplying the Agouti, which coupled with Black produces Bay.

That can hide in Chestnuts for many generations.

As said, I see no Silver in the foal at all, it is very common for Bays to have this grey in their mane and tail, and very attractive too, but it does not denote Silver, even though, in this case, it could be present from the Dam

To answer the original question, No, two Chestnuts cannot produce a Bay, this is one rule that is cast in stone, two Chestnuts can only produce another Chestnut.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Hi Sue,

Congratulations again on a cutie pie foal.

I would say dam and foal are both silvers. I have an appy mare that was similar in color to Zippy as a foal. She's a bit darker than Zippy's dam now (with appy white from the shoulders back). I don't have photos of her on our site though.

As for color testing - UCD does many of the tests - UCD Color Testing

 

[Meavey]

It´s obvious that dam is (dark)bay, look at that muzzle!

She could be a dark silver bay too, but bay she has.

A chestnut isn´t that dark, she is obviously a black based color.

Sire could also carry agouti and silver, it only needs a black base to express and the dam is a black base, so here you go.

Gorgeous foal by the way! :aktion033:

Friends had one just like him, wich is a silver on a dark-bay coat.

http://www.stalhazelberg.nl/silver/fotositesilver.htm

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry, Meavey that foal looks nothing like Sue's foal, the mane and tail are typical and hers are not. The coat colour is also different. I do not agree about the mare, either- I was a bit thrown by the nose as well, but sometimes that happens with a Smoky Black, and the mare has Silver as well, so the colours do get mixed up.

I am sticking with Bay for the foal, no Silver.

Time will tell

:

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Just wondering if the mom might be what is called a liver chestnut? It's a chesnut with some modifying factors in there, but I dunno how it may/may not relate to silver bay........any thots on that? This intrigues me............

:

 

[Dona]

Sorry, Meavey that foal looks nothing like Sue's foal, the mane and tail are typical and hers are not. The coat colour is also different. I do not agree about the mare, either- I was a bit thrown by the nose as well, but sometimes that happens with a Smoky Black, and the mare has Silver as well, so the colours do get mixed up.

I am sticking with Bay for the foal, no Silver.

Time will tell

:

Hmmmmmm....don't understand why you think this foal is a "typical" bay, Rabbit. It has the very obvious "smokey" gray looking mane of a Silver bay foal. And, she said it's mane was coming in even lighter. That wouldn't be happening with a "straight" bay foal.

:

 

[Dona]

I think the mare is Smoky Silver Black and I think the colt is just Bay.

Cream has this funny effect on Silver and prevents the mane and tail from going the classic cream/white colour usually associated with Silver Black.

I also think the sire maybe Red Dun- although it is hard to discern from just one photo.

Sorry Dona, here we go agian....

Current thinking is Silver does not show on Red- I have had and still have many, many Chestnuts exactly that colour with no Silver in their pedigrees at all.

:lol: No need to be "sorry" Rabbit. We agreed to disagree long ago on this one!

:

By the way, I'm not saying ALL sorrels/chestnuts with "light" manes & tails are carrying Silver. :no: Of course, there are some who simply have the "flaxen" gene. But, Silver is so rampant in our minis over here, that the vast majority of these colored horses (sorrel w/silver/white manes and tails...or just have a high percentage of silver/gray hairs in them) ARE usually Silver carriers.

: So, I automatically assume they are...until proven otherwise.

:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think the foal has a typical Bay coat- it's mane and tail have some white in them, that is all .

If you look at the picture of Linda's (Meavey's) friends foal, it is a different colour altogether.

I would never assume anything about Mini colours- not the presence of Silver not the absence of it , let alone in Chestnut, where it is generally accepted not to show. I do accept that after all this time you can usually tell with your own stock, but a Chestnut + Flaxen will always show that sort of colouring, especially if you are to add Sabino to the mix!!

:

Karen, if the mare was to be Liver Chestnut the foal could not be Bay- that much is cast in stone

:

 

[Lauralee]

The foal is very clearly, in my opinion, a silver bay.

Mom appears to be some odd variation of dark bay plus silver and dad could also be hiding silver.

 

[Sandee]

.....................................

Added:..went to the Stud Book online....Pearls dam is listed as SCS (chestnut) and in her background is SBK (black), DGR (?) and ANB (?)

Thanks!!!

If I'm right the background ones you are questioning DGR -dapple gray which may or may not have been gray but could also have been a silver dapple miss registered. The ANB this one I'm guessing because they are not using what I thought they should for letters but I think it means a blue roan appaloosa.

Which means there's a lot going on in the way of colors for this foal. You may have to wait for him to shed out that baby stuff to see his color.

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