Driving Problem

[Lil Bit O Country]

I need some help with a driving problem. I have trained several mini's to drive and have had good success, but this one has me stumped. He has been driving since January and is still fighting the bit. I have tried several different types of bits, (from snaffle, to three different myler bits). I have tried leaving the bit in his mouth for periods of time when I am out with him. I have tried the cavison. I have adjusted the bit every way that I can. He just fights it and has his mouth wide open all of the time. He works until he gets his tongue on top of the bit. I have taken him to K-State and had them do a dental on him and they said his teeth are fine, with no problems. K-State just suggested more time with the bit in his mouth, but that is just not working. He looks good driving from the head down, but that open mouth just looks terrible. I am very soft handed with my horses so I know that he is not fighting too much pressure. I would really appreicate some help with this one.

Thank You

Sue

 

[lilmiraclesfarm]

I'm no expert, I've only just started driving my own minis in the last year, but I've seen those bitless bridles. Why not try driving him bitless? I've done it with my own minis, I just put a normal halter on and drive them. They are so well trained that I really don't require a bit.

 

[Lil Bit O Country]

I plan to show him and must use a bit.

Sue

 

[Minimor]

I would try tying a shoelace from bit ring to bit ring, over his nose to lift the bit up off of his tongue a little bit. Tie the lace up to the browband or crown of the bridle to keep it from falling too low on his nose. Some horses don't like tongue pressure at all. If this helps, if you drive him awhile this way you will eventually be able to loosen the string and then eventually remove it completely for showing--at least hopefully you will. This has worked for me with a similar horse, though in the case of my mare if she had some time off (winter months for instance) the first couple drives in the spring I would have to lift the bit up again, and then with regular driving she was okay again. It is worth a try anyway.

 

[Lil Bit O Country]

Thanks, I will go out and try that right now.

Sue

 

[River Wood]

When you said that his mouth is open, leads me to believe that your cavison, where is buckles under the chin, isn't tight enough. If its fitted properly, its been my experience that the horse won't be able "open" their mouth much if at all. This is probably a questions for the driving experts out there.

:

 

[sfmini]

put the bit on him and leave it 24/7. Let him eat, drink, do everything with it. He will get over it. Just make sure that the headstall will break or come off if he does something stupid like put a leg thru it or hook it on something.

 

[Sue_C.]

Have you tried a french link? if not...I strongly suggest you do. If that doesn't work, perhaps a curb mouthpiece will help.

I have seen several nice curbed bits in both the mylar and copies that are nice, "soft" bits. I know that the french link has worked wonders for my horses, and a friend has the curb on her's, and it makes all the difference in the world.

As for cranking the cavesson tighter to close his mouth...I strongly disagree. With that, you might get his mouth closed, but you have not fixed the problem, only used a bandaid, if you will. This will only lead to a reluctant, resentful horse which will show his displeasure in a multitude of wayS.

I too, have hung the bit on a horse, and just let him be; to come to terms with this 'invasion", and it does help for sure. I just use a single thin piece of leather, from side to side, and tie the bit on with thin latigo. This will fall apart very easily, in case the horse rubs or scratches at it.

Kudos to you to ask, and be willing to try different ways, and means to make your horse more comfortable and happy with his work. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[MiLo Minis]

I have met quite a few Minis that have a very shallow palate and not much room for their tongue when a bit is in their mouth. Check by lifting his lips at the front of his mouth to see if his tongue is sticking out between his front teeth and look from the side to see if the bit takes up more than half the height in the bars of his mouth. A thinner bit will really help if this is the case. I would also look at whether or not he has pain elsewhere such as in his back as that will quite often cause a horse to fuss with his bit. Although I don't advocate tightening the cavesson either until all else is ruled out there is the occasional horse that just likes to play and only in this case would I go with a tighter noseband but I wouldn't use a cavesson. A properly adjusted flash noseband will teach him to keep his mouth closed and accept the bit without being painful, at which point I would go back to a regular noseband.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Ouch. This one can be a real pain! I don't like the idea of either tightening the cavesson to the point they can't open their mouths at all (it sort of precludes relaxation and nicely mouthing the bit as well as uncomfortably pinching the skin) and I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with the safety aspect of wearing a bit 24/7. It's too easy to get it hooked on something and the serious yank the horse would give himself would do nothing to make him more comfortable with the bit even if it didn't injure him.

Does the horse fight the bit the minute it goes in his mouth, only when you are holding the reins, or only when you give him directions with them? Does he have a check on? Which Myler's have you tried? Are you using an open bridle or one with blinders, and do you have any reason (like spooking, acting unhappy the minute the bridle goes on before you touch the reins, etc.) to think he's having problems with the blinders rather than the bit itself? Opening his mouth could be an expression of general unhappiness rather than specifically the bit, but it's impossible to tell without seeing video of him. I've got a couple of theories but need to fill in some of these details to get a better feel for the situation.

A couple of thoughts meanwhile: First, if it truly does turn out to be a bad habit rather than a statement of discomfort then one alternative to a tight tight cavesson is to try a flash noseband temporarily. You have to make sure it's fitted right but if it is then it accomplishes the same thing with much less pressure and can be used as a training aid to teach the horse that it's okay to hold the bit in a closed mouth and to show them how to respond to pressure (i.e. round up the topline, not open the mouth). Second, why not do what the old-time bosal trainers do and use a graduated training program with the horse? Teach him to ground-drive in a halter with a lead on each side until he gives easily to pressure. Put on a bridle with a bit under the halter and continue to ground-drive him with the halter until he carries the bit calmly. Then (assuming you have the dexterity! LOL) attach reins to the bit and the halter both and use two sets of reins at once. Generally I believe you'd have one set coming in the top of your hand and one in the bottom so you could tip your hand to control which set of reins you were using. Start to very gradually wean him off the halter cues until he is steering by the bit and then remove the halter reins and then the halter. Voila!

I'm basically a fan of the system that says adding more equipment is not going to solve a problem. If I have a horse that is that unhappy, rather than adding corrective bits (not that you are) or a tighter cavesson I'm more likely to move the horse back to the simplest open bridle I can find. No blinders, no check, no cavesson at all, and a very simple French link or Myler comfort snaffle that they can move and play with all they want. Then I'm going to slap that halter on them so that if they aren't getting it I can guide them gently without having to escalate my bit cues and I'm going to take a very long time getting that horse comfortable with the bit and doing nothing but drive them around in big gentle figures or down a road if they have the personality for that and would enjoy it. Anything to make that bit a trusted piece of equipment and make it a non-deal. Let them have a very long frame and learn to reach for the ground and the bit. Don't worry that it isn't right for the show ring, I promise you if properly brought along they will develop a higher frame in due time. Keep his mind busy with fun things and reward him constantly with soft releases every time he even starts to soften and accept the bit. Massage his mouth with your fingers. Tickle him. Tease him. Play with him. Keep it friendly!

Often if you focus on something other than their mouth the problem will eventually fade away on its own as they focus on the trail you are driving down or the obstacle you are asking them to walk through. As with small children, patience and a sense of humor are key!

:

Good luck.

Leia

 

[River Wood]

It really depends on how "wide" the horse is able to open its mouth. If the horse has its mouth hanging open a few inches, the cavesson isn't fitted correctly. Thats one of the reasons why its there

:

 

[drivin*me*buggy]

It really depends on how "wide" the horse is able to open its mouth. If the horse has its mouth hanging open a few inches, the cavesson isn't fitted correctly. Thats one of the reasons why its there

:

:bgrin No one ever told my gelding the caveson was there to help him keep his mouth shut. He will fight it unless it's as loose as like a halter, but he keeps he mouth closed when it's loose so i just think of the caveson as like a halter attachment where I can lead him with out using the bit Ha ha ohhhh well I guess I'm just one of the different ones

: :stupid:

:

Ash (& Banner the freak

: horse)

 

[Minimor]

In my books cavessons are decorative only and not for keeping the mouth shut. I don't even use a cavesson outside the showring, and if I did happen to have one on at home, it's loose enough to be nothing more than a halter replacement, like Ash said above--something to hook my fingers through to hold the horse for hitching.

A cavesson that is over tightened will be extremely uncomfortable for the horse--it crushes his cheeks into his molars. If you're going to use a noseband for keeping the mouth shut it should be a flash or dropped noseband, never the cavesson.

 

[Lil Bit O Country]

Could someone send me a picture of a flash or dropped noseband, Also a french link bit and where can I buy one.

Thanks for all of your comments, I have several ideas now that I can try.

Sue

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The cavesson in a driving and riding bridle is there to look pretty ONLY it has absolutely NO other function!!

If you are using it to keep the horse mouth shut :-

A) you are using it incorrectly and will damage the horses jaw- at the very least you will rub it.

B) your horse is not correctly trained as a correctly trained horse will not open it's mouth on the bit.

We really have got to get away form this idea that horse do things to annoy us- very, VERY few horses are actually "difficult" as in "they just do it to be difficult".

Most horses are confused/under trained/ or even in pain or at least discomfort.

I would tend to shy away from any mechanical means of shutting his mouth at all as you have stated you want to show and I'm sorry I cannot remember the American rules about showing in a flash noseband- I know I could not do it here, that is all.

I would tend, myself, to take the long route on this, find out WHY and put it right.

One thing I can guarantee you- the reason he is doing it will NOT be because he wants to annoy you!!

So, of the answers given so far I like and would suggest you try

French Link (LOVE this bit, never found a horse that will not go in it- found one that would not STOP in it, but she WENT OK!!!)

Narrower mouth bit- Rabbit has a TINY mouth- very very short, no room for an ordinary bit at all, so I can empathise with this one)

As a last resort- a Waterford- now this is a specialist bit but you have stated your hands are soft and I trust your judgement- be careful, it is a lovely bit in the right hands and the horse cannot evade it, so he will be right there on the bit, all the time!!

 

[Sandee]

Please explain "waterford bit". I tried a search and the ones I found look like a twisted or chain snaffle.

I am experiencing somewhat the same problem that Sue is. My guy looks like he's trying to spit the bit out. He used to get his tongue over it but I've found the solution on that one.

The "tongue over", for my guy, was partly from an inside hook on a tooth that the bit was holding the tongue down on the hook. Now that's not your problem but to keep him from getting his tongue over the bit are you sure your headstall is holding it up in his mouth far enough. It's easy to not get the bit up on these little guys because some have a small head and the "average" headstall just doesn't adjust up far enough. I too was cranking the cavesson too tight until I bought a new harness and had them "fit" it to him. The guy had to cut several inches off the "mini" headstall and punch new holes to put the bit up into his mouth properly. My guy is 31 1/2"; not tiny but refined?

Since the trainer used a french link at the start and said he didn't like it, I've tried a thin snaffle and a mullen mouth. The latest thing I'm trying is a low port, mylar look-a-like. Hoping, with light hands, it will take the pressure off his tongue and he'll work better.

Here's hoping we both get better results soon.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

This is a Waterford

this one has Baucher cheeks on it- might even look better as a driving bit!!

As I said, this bit is not for everyone- in the wrong hands it can be vicious, but I know we are all hyper sensitive here- the horse will find it almost impossible to evade as it makes contact everywhere- used carefully it is a brilliant but, though.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Rabbit please add to your list of "likes" to check for pain elsewhere in the body, not just the mouth. I have personally dealt with several horses that have had back trouble that showed up in a fussy mouth. Once the dentist has given his okay a physical by the vet is in order if I find a horse that won't keep his mouth closed.

I don't believe I have ever seen a Waterford in Miniature size - where on earth did you find it? That would likely be something you would have to have custom made. I have to say though that I wouldn't resort to this more severe bit strictly because of a fussy mouth.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry, YES I missed that one!!!

Please have the horse checked out by a physio or a sensitive person (qualifications are not necessary for a diagnosis, I feel!!) as upper or even sometimes lower neck pain can and does cause head tossing and bit evasion- just looking in the mouth is not always the answer- remember the song "The neck bone connected to the...."???

Now I had (have somewhere) a Mini Waterford and if I find it I shall gladly lend it, but with my memory I would not wait!!!

 

[MiLo Minis]

Perhaps someone else can tell you where to get a ready made flash for Minis. I have never seen one and had an A and B size made up by my local harnessmaker.