dog lovers--Parvo questions

[barnbum]

Let me be as brief as possible: Mark and I rescued a puppy someone dropped at my sister's house. We lost Suzy last summer, and thought it'd be a good idea.

Great first week. Love this guy. He was scheduled to get his shots on a Wed. Vet's office said due to Parvo, leave him in the van until they had a room ready. I was going to call Monday and suggest they come here because I didn't want him to catch something.

He had an accident in the barn Sunday morning. From what we can guess, in the 10 seconds I didn't have my eye on him, he caught his head between stall boards. One second he's fine, the next time I peek at him, he's in the same spot, but limp. We rushed him to the vet's--never thought he'd live the ride. He was temp paralyzed and blind, but made it through--came home in four days. A miracle. He's been sore, but getting better every day.

He came home on a Wednesday. Yesterday he didn't eat breakfast. Oh no. He threw-up. Oh no. Called the vet--they said to bring him in. I'm hoping ulcer from the meds. Parvo they say. He's back in the hospital. He hasn't thrown-up again and he does not have diarrhea. We're waiting to see how he does to make a decision as to when he's had enough.

We visited him twice a day before, but the vet strongly suggested we didn't vist now as it'll over stimulate him and because of the spread of this virus.

We've researched this horrid disease and learned the incubation period is 7-10 days. Buddy was at the vet's from days 6-9. He got it there. He has a sister who was taken in by someone else--she doesn't not have Parvo. We asked the vet today if they'd take some responsibility for the financial part of his care. He (one of 7 vets there) said no because it can't be proved he caught it there.

For more details, and many photos of this beautiful boy, you can read here: Buddy's story

So, I have some questions:

1. Do you know of dogs who have survived Parvo and lived long healthy lives?

2. How would you handle the fact that the puppy contracted the virus at the vet's?

This has been a very stressful, emotional few weeks.

 

[Sixstardanes]

Some say Tamiflu can help with the treatment of Parvo.

I personally know of 2 dogs who have survived Parvo.

One was our foundation Great Dane dog, Roku.. he lived to be 9yrs of age. The other is his grandson, Dyami, who'll be 5yrs old in a couple of days.

Best of luck!

 

[barnbum]

Someone on the quilting forum suggested Tamiflu. We asked the vet if he'd use it. He said no because there's not enough clinical evidence to back it up.

 

[Charley]

We had a puppy with Parvo years ago when it was a new disease. My puppy was depressed and had explosive diarrhea and a smell that I will never forget. The vet would not treat him in the clinic, he came out to the car to treat him once a day. I don't remember exactly how long he was sick...seems like it was a week, maybe a little longer. I never thought an animal could be that sick and live...that was how bad it was. But he was back to normal just as quickly as he had come down with it. He lived a long life and had no lasting problems.

 

[chandab]

When I was a kid (like 25+ years ago now) my dad rescued a puppy from the parking lot of his work; she was 4-6 months old, she got parvo a month or so after we brought her home. Took her to the vet, and since my parents were heading out of town for a week, they left her with the vet for a week. She lived to the ripe old age of 13 or 14 years old, and to my knowledge had no lasting complications because of it.

 

[barnbum]

Thanks for the positive stories. The article I read said oftentimes puppies who survive lead unhealthy/weak lives. So--that's why I was asking.

 

[Katiean]

I had a puppy that the day she got her second parvo shot (1st one given and the second 30 days later). I took her to the vet. She spent about 10 days on IV. They took it out as she was coming home the next day. Her intestines compacted into themselves. They put her back on IV fluid and called me. I came to see her and they said we could put her down or operate yo fix the intestine. I asked when they closed and they said noon. I told them I would be back to give a dissuasion. When I got back she was absolutely fine. The vet said this was the first time they had seen the intestine work themselves out. We took her home 2 days later. She was almost 14 when she passed. Oh, and we did visit her every day as she would have died had we not.

Jazz was 12 weeks old when she got parvo and was totally normal and never went back to the vet in her almost 14 years.

 

[jleonard]

Our Cocker Spaniel, Blue, had parvo as a puppy.

We bought him at a horse show for my mom's birthday. They lady selling him and his brothers was a vendor and said she was selling them for her groomer. He was still a tiny little thing, only about 4 lbs. We took him home and all was great for a day or two. He played with our Golden retriever and acted like a normal puppy. On the 2nd or 3rd day home he stopped eating and became very depressed. My mom called the vet, who said to wait until the next day to bring him in. When she told them what he weighed they said bring him in immediately.

They diagnosed him with parvo, but on top of that he was riddled with parasites and covered in mites. He was in horrible shape, and spent 2 weeks in the hospital. We visited him everyday. He would lay in his cage looking lifeless the rest of the time, but would always perk up when we came and talked to him. The vet said our visits made all the difference, they were shocked that he survived.

We told the vendor we purchased him from about it at the next show. She claimed that none of the other puppies had come down with it. The vet theorized that he contracted it from being vaccinated for Parvo when he was too young. Years later the vendor finally admitted that he had come from a puppy mill situation

He is now six years old and has had absolutely no complications from his rough start to life. He is the best dog we have ever had, truly a part of the family. He has an incredible personality, thinks he is a person, and is very attached to my mom and I. We attribute it to all of the time we spent with him while he was so sick. My life would have been so empty had he not survived, I love him more than most people

Blue when he first got sick

Blue this spring

Sending lots of good thoughts for your adorable Buddy.

ray

They can survive and go on to live full lives! Like Katiean said, I really don't think that my boy would have survived without our visits. IMO, If you don't visit, they have nothing to look forward to and nothing to live for!

 

[gimp]

I think I have a bit of an issue with your vet. If I were you I might research the Tamiflu thing since a couple of people have brought it up as a possible help. For him to just dismiss it, and also to dismiss the idea of cutting your bill since that pup quite obviously caught Parvo while in his care is rubbing me the wrong way. He sounds like a few of the human docs I used to work with. Maybe good in practice, but darn poor in bedside manner.

I hope your sweet boy pulls through all this OK. He sure is a photogenic little guy.

 

[Marty]

I just did some quicky research and some articles say the incubation period is 5-10 days and others say differntly. Regardless, the vet knew there was a parvo problem going on in his office so I'd say that's pretty much a given your puppy caught it there. I would get my puppy and go to another vet that will treat him appropriately and aggressivley as these articles suggest you have no time to waste and make that vet eat his bill. He knows he screwed up and has a lot of nerve expecting you to pay him.

 

[barnbum]

I do feel he's getting good care--he's on IVs for fluids to treat the symptoms. I'd bring him home if I thought I could give him better care. The other issue is we're in a heat wave and there he's in AC. But I WILL be visiting today. I always have to wait till 10:00 to call and it was usually 11:30 when they wanted me to visit. but, maybe since he's in a different part of the clinic, I'll be able to go earlier.

This doctor is the only one we've worked with we can't stand. When Buddy was hurt the first time, one of the women who comes out to work on horses was on call and she was fabulous. She stayed with Buddy all day Sunday--just moving his blanket sot get him comfortable and omnitoring him after trying different meds. She saved his life. The other woman we talked to, who took over his care, was wonderful too.

Here's an example of what this mae doctor said: after taking Buddy's temp, I asked "Does he have a temperature?" He replied "All animals have a temperature." So, in my emotional state, I rephrased it "Does he have an elevated temp?" The he said "Good question! Yes, it's 104." Jerk.

Question: Once person told me yesterday that once Buddy comes home he can't go near where he pooped before for seven months or he can get this again. They still will not vaccinate him until he's been well for a week--so a week after I bring him home. Once he's had a series of the vaccines, won't he be immune at some point?

 

As many of you know, changing where he hung out will be a challenge--he pooped in two different locations and it was right in the back yard in the shade where everyone hangs out. We are now planning on taking him out the front porch door--and having his hang out place under the pine trees (huge) in the front yard. But--we never wanted him in the front yard to stay far from the road.

He'll have to be on a leash 100% of the time, or in a "playpen" we bought so we don't have to tie him--until he was completely healed from the first issue.

 

90% of the time when he pooped, we removed it and tossed it behind a woodpile by a field (the late night ones were left till morning). So it never sat in the yard for long. Don't know if that makes a difference.

 

What's your reaction to this idea of keeping him away from the backyard for that long? Did any of you need to follow that? What precautions did you take?

Thanks!

 

[hunterridgefarm]

I lost a Blue heeler to Parvo my vet which is the best around here in our area said the only thing to kill Parvo is BLEACH.

You need to bleach your back yard down. before your dog comes home. you might want to do this 2 times. not just where he used the bathroom but the whole yard

Hope this helps

 

[barnbum]

We have a giant back yard--so that's just not possible, but we'll work something out. We have a big enough front yard too, it's just not as shady and it's closer to the road.

 

[Watcheye]

I think I have a bit of an issue with your vet. If I were you I might research the Tamiflu thing since a couple of people have brought it up as a possible help. For him to just dismiss it, and also to dismiss the idea of cutting your bill since that pup quite obviously caught Parvo while in his care is rubbing me the wrong way. He sounds like a few of the human docs I used to work with. Maybe good in practice, but darn poor in bedside manner.

I hope your sweet boy pulls through all this OK. He sure is a photogenic little guy.

Im with Gimp and Marty on this one.

 

[uwharrie]

Even with precautions dogs can and do contract parvo in vets offices. Dogs can contract parvo and never be off your property or near another dog. You can track the virus in on shoes, clothes, ect.

so while it is possible, even probible the pup got parvo at the vets you cannot really blame them. Anytime an unvaccinated dog goes somewhere there has been sick dogs there is the risk the animal will get sick.

The good news is once a dog has and survives parvo they are immuned for life.

now if you have other dogs coming and going in the same area the pup was when it first got sick I would do some heavy bleaching of the area if possible

 

[Sixstardanes]

Anytime an unvaccinated dog goes somewhere there has been sick dogs there is the risk the animal will get sick.

I don't mean to be argumentative here but vaccines are not foolproof.

Some can and do get ill after having all "recommended" vaccines.

As for bleaching a yard I know of folks who have attached a sprayer to their hose to spray their whole big yard.

Best of luck with the puppy.

 

[barnbum]

All research, and the vets, say having Parvo does not give immunity at all. Puppies who have had it CAN get it again. That's the trouble with bleaching the yard. But, we are going to mark off the area we know he's deficated in and are going to spray it with a bleach solution with our sprayer.

Update:

I called this morning to say we're coming at 10 to get an update and to see Buddy. A vet tech talked to me and said Buddy was quite lethargic and the doc was politely asking that we don't come. Buddy wasn't responding to treatment. I politely said I've felt it was important for Buddy's mental well being to see us and I understood they could only treat symptoms and he wasn't having a specific treatment, but the virus had to run its course and if he hadn't vomited, had diarrhea, and doesn't have a fever I'd say he was at least holding his own. I also told him we agreed at the time of admission to determine day to day if/when he's had enough and it was time to put him down and I could not make that determination without seeing him. I told him many I had talked with said in similar cases the doctor felt it was the visits that gave the puppy hope/a determination to live. He said he didn't know who I was talking to, but for my mental well being (yes, he said that--but the rest I don't remember word for word) I needed to know that it took longer than a few days for puppies to get over this. I told him he misunderstood what I had said...and I just can't remember the rest of those sentences. He said I needed to trust the doctor or I could talk to another. I asked to talk to another about the visits. He came back and said Dr. Pinkey said to come in for 5 minutes. We left right away.

While waiting to be called back I talked to the receptionist there--I love her--she's so very kind and we played flute together all through high school band years. I told her briefly about the situation and told her I'd like to request--no rush--a meeting with two of the partners (Dr Jerk is the third partner) to discuss what's happened--mostly about the bill. As far as seeing the Jerk again--she said she'll put a pop up screen on our account page that says no appts (except emergencies) are to be made with him.

Buddy is in an isolation room with another dog with parvo in a cage next to him and some stray playful kittens in a cage above the other dog--it's tiny and he's hooked up to an IV. He has a cone thing on because he was trying to chew his catheter. He is definitely quite sick--but he perked right up when he saw Rachel and me--and sat up to rub noses. :-D They aren't going to try to feed him today to prevent him from starting the vomiting again. (Oh I will need to fatten this boy up again!) I asked more about the virus and the tech said it's such an up and down disease--it's hard to make a determination about anything.

When we left we had to dip out shoes in a bleach solution and wash our hands. I told this tech that I 100% understood the precautions--from having pregnant mares I never allowed people from horse farms to visit, and I'd bleach my shoes before I visit tomorrow. (I really feel the bleaching needs to happen BEFORE people walk in the clinic!. I told her there are NO puppies at our house and the nearest neighbor is a mile away in all directions. So--there is no spreading of it going on with us. I also told her I would bleach my shoes before I came tomorrow, for I will be seeing him tomorrow. I will only visit once per day instead of twice, for I can see it's a pain for them to have us walking through the areas to get to him.

So--we feel we should give him a few more days to see if he can turn things around. He's not as bright eyed as when we took him in, but everything you and the folks on the horse forum (just posted this situation there last night) have said, and the articles I've read, point to at least 3-4 days to turn the corner. He deserves that much. He hasn't had quite enough time to fight this off. Poor little guy has been through so much.

Thanks for listening... that was a very detailed update, eh?

 

[HGFarm]

Knock on wood, I have never had a dog with this, but have known others who did, and yes, some of them survived!! It sounds like you caught it early enough to give him a good chance.

I know a friend at work who years ago, got a puppy that had had it's first shots already. The dog came down with parvo at their home and after a HUGE bill, didnt make it. They were told to bleach everything and not to get another dog for a year! This stuff does not go away easily.

Fourteen months later, they got another dog... a pup who had already had the first TWO sets of shots.... guess, what? It also got parvo! Apparently the bleaching and waiting that long was NOT enough- their dogs dont leave their yard and no one had been over, so it had to get it from there. There were able to save the second dog. They used to call her their $4000 dog as that is what it cost them between the two puppies in vet bills!!

Hope your pup will be ok. I know someone with a kennel and they give the puppies colostrum when they get it (they tried that the last couple of times) and they had a much higher recovery rate! They keep things clean, bleach things, etc... and they have an occasional outbreak anyhow. Thank heavens, nothing for the last 4 years or so.

Just read your update and yes, dogs can get parvo at any time... coyotes and anything else that comes in contact with contaminated ground, including your own shoes unknowingly, can spread it. A second family I know with another kennel does NOT allow anyone in the actual kennel. They have very expensive dogs whose kennel is an entire air conditioned building by itself in the back and they keep a pan of bleach at the door so when they go in and out. They STILL get parvo occasionally.

Yes, it unfortunately has to run its course. And bleaching does NOT kill off everything. It can help... any manure from the dog should be raked up, bagged and dumped properly... the germs are still sitting there to be spread by birds, mice, or anything else that comes in contact with it. My friends used a spray also that is made to help kill off the parvo... cant remember the name of it, but the vet recommended it, and they sprayed the entire area with that too.

Yes, they can get it again..... but I think if you bleach before he comes home and make sure all the manure is gone- maybe bleach a second time if possible- and you have to bleach everything, not just where he went to the bathroom... the germs are tracked on his feet all over the yard now. It is a nasty virus and very hard to get rid of. I hope your little guy improves

 

[sfmini]

This and kennel cough are why we refuse to foster shelter dogs any more. We will take those that come from private homes, or shelter dogs that have been in a temp foster home for two weeks minimum. Nasty diseases, both.

Good luck for your puppy.

 

[Sterling]

I wish I could swish a magic wand and make your little pup better. I can see it's taking a toll emotionally on you...it would for me too so know that you are not alone in your feelings. I just wanted to tell you that I am keeping your little one in my prayers and hope with all my heart that he gets better and comes out of this one. I agree, seeing you while he is in the hospital will make him happy...I'm glad that you are able to continue to do so. I hope you will be updating us with good news and that soon your little guy will be able to walk out those doors to go home with you.