Daisy had her puppies!

[Stacy Score]

Ok, so I know that there are a lot of folks on here that also raise dogs. Daisy is a Havanese - and weighs about 10 lbs - she had 8 puppies (yes 8 :new_shocked: ). They seem to be doing well, three are quite a bit smaller than their siblings so I am trying to make sure that they get on the teats at the back with the most milk.

With this many puppies do you think I should be supplementing them with additional feedings? I have the liquid puppy formula (w/colustrum - but I think all the puppies have gotten a few good feedings from mom) - and a bottle w/nipple. I often hear of people "tubing" puppies and quite frankly that seems kind of scary to me - although it is probably a lot faster than bottle feeding.

Any helpful hints from all you experts out there? Puppies were born today between 10 am and 1 pm - it is 5 pm now and I will be getting all their weights down so that I can guage how they are progressing.

I've been told that puppies are "easy compared to horses" - but my comfort factor is in the horses since I have done them for 20+ years and have only had 3 or 4 litters of puppies over that same period of time.

Thank you for your feedback,

Stacy & Daisy

 

[Barbie]

Stacy-

I have never had puppies, but did raise and show Persian cats for 15 years. I would think that you want to watch for fat bellies - want them to have pear shapes. With that many pups you may have to supplement - I always used either an eye dropper or little bottle - tubed my kittens as a last resort. Mom should probably be on a puppy food so she is getting the extra calcium. Hopefully someone who is an expert on pups will get on here.

Best of luck,

Barbie

 

[Reble]

My suggestion get mom to come out of the whelping box and put the 4 smaller ones just on her as often, as you can. Or try two whelping boxes, close together, where she can go in and out of them. Separate big ones and small ones.

If not sometimes the smaller ones get pushed out, at least untill you see they are all getting on with no problem. I have had a dog give birth an raise 11 pups. Had to keep a close eye on the smaller ones.

Nature can be so cruel.

:

Good Luck.

: :saludando:

 

[tshack]

Stacy who ever told you they were easier than horses hadn't raised many. LOL

First of all how is mom's milk? Have you watched each and every pup nurse and if so do they look like they are getting milk or just trying? You can tell cause they'll latch on and work and if they don't get any they'll pop off.

Things that I'd keep handy:

a digital scale that weighs in ounces and fraction of ounces. I got mine at wal-Mart in the food section (it's a life saver in being able to catch the early signs of a weak pup). I'd get this ASAP too, the first 10 days are critical and if your gonna lose one it'll prob be during this time. Weigh them everyday at the same time. Keep a sheet and mark down weights. I usually weigh right after birth and mom has had a bit of time to bond (don't believe in intervening in the birth process unless absolutely necessary.). At each weighing the pups should show SOME weight gain, they will prob be all at different rates but if they are gaining they are doing good as a general rule. Also you may have one or two that stay the same for a day or two that's OK as long as they don't lose. IF you see a pup that's lost I'd go to watching them, try to make sure they get a bit more nurse time and start weighing 2 times a day. Pups can get weak SO quick and you'll lose 'em SO fast it's unreal.

Liquid milk re-placer has ALWAYS worked better for me than the powder, just remember that once opened even in the fridge it's got a short life, get the small cans since it's small pups.

Gatorade, Pedialyte, or Poweraide is also something I keep on hand. I had a pup get weak literally in half a day and refuse to suck. Vet told me to get this into her to bring her hydration back to par, mixed in with some Karo syrup, that's a bit of a sugar boost and is essential to weak pups.

A pup bottle is good IF the nipple is soft, I have never found one though with a nipple that's soft enough, if the nipple is hard they won't have the energy to work to suck on it and will give up quickly. With my JRT's who are born itty bitty I found a preemie human baby nipple and bottle worked pretty well. Also a syringe with the top that sticks out a bit (can't remember what the official name is) is good, they are the kind that you just stick the needle on not screw it on, is good. As always when supplementing with anything go SLOW cause they can get the liquid in their lungs very easily.

I personally would start with the scale (try to get 'em weighed tonight) and watch ,em, maybe weigh 'em again in the morning, if they show to of lost weigh, watch their feeding and weigh 'em at noon or something, or if they don't look like they are sucking good try to warm some of the milk up for them. Remember not to microwave it, put it in the bottle and set in a pan of boiling water. You can check their hydration by pulling up the skin on their neck ans seeing how fast it takes it to go back to normal, if the little pinch part stays pinched then they are dehydrated and you need to get some of the gatorade/Karo mix in 'em, for about 8 hours or until you see them re-hydrating whichever comes first, if not then they are fine.

Make sure mom is on a high protein high fat diet at least 30/18 cause that will help her milk production immensely with that many.

I don't liek to tube and woudl only do it as a last resort because it's SO easy to hit the lungs instead of the stomach, and if you watch 'em you can usually catch it before they get that weak.

I've got a weigh chart if you need it just let me know.

 

[kaykay]

youve gotten great advice. I would watch for a fading pup and it will probably be one of the smaller ones. Then tend to start fading around 8-10 hrs. Moms will push them away and refuse to feed them. You usually find them off by themselves and cold. Main thing is to keep them warm and feed them by bottle. Out of all our litters we have only had one fading pup. Good luck!!

 

[tshack]

Another good hint shoudl you have to keep one warm is to get a sock and fill it with rice, heat in the microwave and set it around/under them with a towel over it, you'll have to switch 'em out often, but it's a good little thing to keep handy. I try if at all possibel to let them have the warmth of hte litter if I can. I've set up many nights and camped infront of pup crates all night with a lamp beside to check on mom and pups before. LOL

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]8 is a lot....the little ones probably came from a breeding later in the week from the others. I dont breed more than three days in a row. With tiny dogs the weeks are like months in people. I have a 10 pound Doxie due in may.... I will remind myself then...lol. We have had two litters of 7 from our 10 pound Jack that we used to have.... All of them did well. I had a corgi have 11 last year and then my other tri girl had 7 more making 18 total in my kitchen for a while.... was changing newspapers ALL THE TIME! Like the rice bag idea... will keep that in mind also! Good luck with your littleones![/SIZE]

Lyn

BTW Pictures ARE a requirement here you know.

Lyn

 

[Stacy Score]

Thank you for all the advise - they seem to be doing well so far. I have the scale and weighed them all. Smallest weighs 3.3 oz and largest 6! And the rest are in the 4-5 oz range. Mom is cooperating and has a decent appetite which I feel is good - she is a good mommy and very attentive. The smaller pups are really active and push their way right into a teat but I am still making sure that they are latching and sucking - which they all are. I have the puppy formula if necessary and also the "stat" stuff from the vet which is kind of like sweetened Gatorade I guess. The house is pretty warm since I am afraid of heat lamps so my hubby and I are walking around in t-shirts! Thank you for all your help and advise - I am a wreck over these puppies - you would think that someone who has foaled out ove 150 miniatures would not go to pieces of a litter of puppies - but I do - I think it is because I hate to hear my dogs cry and Daisy is a major diva and howls at the top of her lungs over the least little bit of inconvenience so having puppies has been a rather noisy event here today!

Keep that advise comming and I will continue to let you all know how things are going - thanks so much for all the help.

:

Stac

 

[Cronewolf]

:aktion033: 8 is a large litter for a small dog. Be sure the bitch is on a calcium suppliment. Don't want eclampesia. Bottle is the best way to feed not the quickest, that would be tubing but I don't like to do that. I have raised a litter by tubing just don't like to. The human premie bottles work the best . I raised toy poodles for over 20 years and Shelties and Collies for about 10.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Remember it is the LARGER pups you should supplement as the smaller pups need Mamas milk- if you do this you can leave all the pups with Mama as the larger ones will just curl up and sleep once they are full. My Shelties always had, for Shelties, large litter and I always ended up doing this for the first few days- make sure the big pups get some of Mamas colostrum, though- it is just a matter of juggling them for a few days and feeding Mama up so she gets all the taps going!!

Faders?? I have worked my heart out to save faders and honestly, it is rarely worth it, hard as it sounds. If they are faders, now, I am afraid I tend to let them go.

It is heart breaking but there is something wrong and Nature, just sometimes, should be left alone.

 

[Lauralee]

I want to see pictures!!!! Pretty please!!!!!

What do mom and dad look like????

Tell me more about Havanese as a breed.....I've been puppy shopping for a house companion.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

No advise but yes I want pics to and congrats on all your pups!

 

[tshack]

I'd call the vet before giving a calcium supplement, it can help if they are low on it but too much can also cause eclamsia. And believe me it's not somthing you want to go through!

LOL on the weighs too, I've had jack pups born a 4 ounce for the smallest and 8 for the biggest. Just make sure each one is gaining, the little ones prob wont' catch up till at least 5-6-8 weeks, it's ok as long as they gain though.

Faders are hard to decide on, Im a softie and will pupt in the time and effort (sorry can't ever stand back and watch an animal die even if it's natures way). I've kept 2 alive that showed the fader symptoms and both are happy healthy normal dogs today. My last was only born at 2 ouncs and was evidently under cooked even though mom only mated one time during her heat. he did good on mom the first day went down hill the second I completly had to pull him off of mom and kept him going for four days, and ended up losing him. It about broke my heart, but he was just not fully developed. Shoudl I of let him go at day 2? Maybe but like I said I'm a softy and all my dogs are my adopted kids, and all pups are raised in the house, and I just can't ever give up on an animal without at least trying.

 

[Stacy Score]

Hi everyone - and thank you for all your advise. Pups seem to be holding their own - all have gained some only .5 oz and some a full 1 oz - doesn't sound like much but when they only weighed 3.3 to start to seem him at 3.8 is great.

Havanese are great little dogs - they are sturdy and very, very smart - double coated, non-shedding and hypoallergenic. The weigh about 8-12 lbs and cannot be over 11 tall. They come in all colors which is fun and are rough and tumble enough to put up with my big dogs and yet small and cuddly enough to not completely take over my pillow. They are AKC recognized (as of 1996 I believe) and are crowd favorites at the dog shows.. Classes are getting quite competitive but you can still finish a good dog by yourself and not necessarily need a prof. handler which seems to be the case in some of the more well-known breeds.

My Daisy is a finished AKC Champion and my other bitch is almost finished, the stud dog that Daisy was bred to was also a finished AKC champion who has produced champions even tho he is only 3 years old.

I am a complete idiot when it comes to posting pictures, but after these guys get a little older I will take some pix and beg someone to post them - right now they look kind of like gerbils! If you go to the AKC website you can scroll down Dog Breeds and find out a lot of great info about the breed.

Again, thank you all for helping me - I am begining to calm down a bit now!

:

Stac

 

[capall beag]

Don't stress about it unless you need to!!

My 10 lb jrt just raised 6 pups beautifully!!

I weighed each pup am and pm and all mine thrived.

I think it is REALLY important to give momma all she needs and then pups will do well.

I fed my Momma dog 4 times a day, started with boiled, skinless breast of chicken and white rice, which I made for her every day. I also gave ground turkey and chesse. But her favorite was cottage cheese, she consumed huge amounts of this!!

:

:

Cottage cheese is excellent as it also helps bind Momma up, in case of diarrhea or any upset due to a richer diet.

Just watch Momma really carefully because her body will work very hard to provide for the pups, so long as she is doing fine and pups are gaining I would not worry. My girl was an excellent Momma and did great, we did not have a runt puppy so were perhaps lucky!!

Do hope Little Daisy does well and all her pupups!!

btw congratulations!!

Oh I also start to feed the pups by 3 weeks of age, again starting them on cottage cheese, this is also key to helping the Momma, mine needed no encouragement to start eating......they chowed down on the cottage cheese! Mine were weaned at 6 weeks but Momma would visit to play am and pm and they would grab a quick gulp at the portable creamery

:

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[Marty]

OH goodness..........what's a Hava.......havloa, haveer........whatever you said????????

Sounds precious!

 

[Boinky]

lol i agree..whoever said puppies are easier than horses is NUTS! I've only had 3 litters myself...all Australian Shepherds. but let me tell ya..none of them was EASY..lol One litter was 12, one was 10 and one was 3. the litter of 12 had a couple that had a rough start because of a csection. They had a ery hard tiem braething on their own..we had to stimulate them for about 2 hours before they were breathing more than just gasping... and just didnt' do well the first day..but once they woke up and were fed bottle they came right around..you'd never know they were any differnt han the rest..there was ONE that started out normal looking but ended up not excelling like the rest..i did have to pretty much bottle raise her the whole time..she just could never seem to get the hang of latching onto mom. She even seemed to me to almost be the dog version of a downs syndrome baby. she had funny eyes and she never got really big..always was about half the size of the rest. I placed her with a great family and she's completely normal and healthy apparently now but she was 'differnt" then. The second litter all pretty much never needed to be supplemented even though i TRIED...they all were nursing great and mom was producing enough. the third litter i had a real weak little teeny one that i had to bottle feed when it was first born. it would have died if i hadn't..but once it got it's strenght it nursed fine. puppies are NOT easy any way you cut it! both of my bitches were excellent mothers but you still have to watch them closely to make sure no one is getting smushed an everyones eating ect. i think it's more stressful than horses in my own oppinion...and it only gets worse the older they get because they need mroe care and cleaning ect! Let me tell ya..never ending job cleaning up and making sure they have dog food constantly with 10-12 pups! lol...

for a milk supplement my vet zsaid to stay away from the powdered stuff to use a mixture of 2 egg yolks, 2 tablespoons of oil, 1 tablespoon of Karo, 5 drops of baby vitimins, and 1 can of canned milk (or yu can substitue with powdered milk which i found was easier or any type of milk pretty much.. goats milk is great). it's really rich and really nourished my pups well that needed to be fed. they did better on it than the powdered formula.

Also ify our worried about heat..put a heating pad in the pen set on low. the pups will all crawl onto it and it should provide them with warmth. i think i'd personally stay away from heat lamps..too much danger in overcooking the poor little things! the rice in a sock idea was great too.. My vets also did water bottles with hot water in them which work great but you have to be dilligent on checkingo n them because if they get cold then they can draw the heat out of the pups.