Cribbing or wind sucking

[Lil Bit O Country]

This is the second horse that I have had that is a wind sucker or cribber, I have been in miniatures for 17 years now and this one is breaking my heart. He bloats from all that air and coughs when I work him. He is my granddaughters show horse and is oh so smart. It seems that the smartest horses are the most apt to become wind suckers. I think that they get bored and start in as a way to occupy time. Does anyone have any ideas. I called the vet today about the surgery and they said it was between $800.00 to $1,000.00 and takes about a month to recover. They also said it is not always successful.. Right now I have him in a metal muzzel this works but I don't want to do this forever. Someone told me to try a dog shock collar. Will this hurt my horse. I know I could put up electric fence and feed him out of a rubber bucket. I like to keep him inside during show season. He gets exercised daily and lots af attention. Looking for any ideas.

Thanks

Sue

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I have had a few horses that crib and it never bothered me all were very succesful show horses and all very healthy - i dont see how a shock collar can be a good thing if you must get a cribbing collar however have found in my own experience that horses that crib can be type A personalities and if you take that away from them expect them to take out there stress in other ways

 

[Marty]

I have had two. Both were overstalled it was caused from boredom of too much stalling; but there are other causes for this problem too. I feel once they learn it, you cannot stop it. I feel it is also a learned habit from another horse in many cases such as mine.

I used every collar, hot wired everything, put cans on fence posts, stood on my head and nothing, nothing ever even slowed them up for a minute. The dog shock collar will only make the horse insane. He will also figure out how to crib through the muzzle too in time and latch on to buckets and you name it. It's a horrible vice to have to cope with. I had to be sure to lunge them because the bloat was so bad, they had to "fart it off" or they would get gas colic on me. I feel for you and have no answers other than to keep the horse outside and out of the barn and try to keep him busy, but that will still not fix it. I really feel for you and don't know anything about the surgery but it sure might be worth investigating. Best wishes.

Cribbing

by: Thomas C. Bohanon, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACVS

May 01 1996, Article # 833

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I have a horse that cribs all the time. He is always hanging his teeth over his stall or the fence and sucking air. How bad is this for him, and is there any way to stop him permanently?

Cribbing is when a horse places its front teeth on a horizontal surface, arches its neck, and pulls backwards. This behavior is usually associated with a grunting noise as the horse gulps air, and is often referred to as wind sucking or aerophagia. This is a vice that many stalled horses pick up because of boredom. The habit is one that horse owners need to catch early if they are to be effective in breaking it.

If cribbing is left alone, and it worsens, it can become more than just an annoyance. If left unchecked, the horse will wear down its front teeth prematurely. In extreme cases, the teeth become so worn that they do not meet when the mouth is closed, which can lead to the second problem, weight loss. Weight loss associated with cribbing can occur because the horse wears its teeth down so far that grazing becomes a problem, or the horse fills its stomach with air rather than grass, hay, or grain and therefore causes a loss in body condition.

As if these problems weren't enough, colic is also known to be a complication of cribbing. Colic from cribbing is caused by the ingestion of air, which causes gas distention in the intestinal tract. Therefore, if the annoyance of the horse destroying property alone is not enough to prompt action, think of the physiological complications brought on by cribbing.

The key to managing cribbing is to catch it early. If caught early enough, within a couple of months, there is a good chance the habit can be broken. The first line of defense should be a cribbing collar, which is generally a several-inch-wide leather and metal strap that fastens snugly around the throatlatch. The collar is designed to create discomfort if the horse begins to crib. There are a variety of collars available, and some are more aggressive than others. The more aggressive ones have abrasive or sharp objects incorporated into the collar that create even more discomfort for the horse as it begins to crib. There is also a collar that fits over the forehead in front of the ears that has shown to be more effective than the traditional cribbing collars--which have limited success.

If the discomfort from a cribbing collar doesn't break the habit, there is a surgical procedure that can be performed to disable the horse from cribbing. The Modified Forssells procedure is performed under general anesthesia and involves removing a portion of the omohyoideous, sternohyoideous, and the sternothyroideus muscles. In addition, a portion of the ventral branch of the spinal accessory nerve is removed, which denervates the sternocephalicus muscle. The muscle itself is not actually removed, which makes it more cosmetic than the original Forssells procedure. The surgery is fairly common, and it is nationally recognized.

While there are no side effects associated with this procedure, there can be side effects associated with any surgery, such as anesthetic complications and the chance for infection.

The muscles clipped in the procedure are the ones primarily involved in the act of cribbing. The theory behind the surgery is that by removing the muscles, it eliminates the horse's ability to crib. However, it's not an all-or-nothing process because the more a horse cribs, the more he recruits other muscles to participate in the act. So, the longer the horse has been cribbing, the more muscles will be involved in the act. With a horse of this type, even after the Modified Forssells procedure is performed, the horse may still be able to crib, although not to the same extent as before the surgery. The procedure is more successful in horses who have been cribbing a relatively short time, or in horses who do not crib constantly.

In a study of 35 horses which had the Modified Forssells procedure perfomed on them, 60% had stopped cribbing altogether a year later, and 25% had shown marked decrease in their cribbing a year later. The success rate all depends on how long the horse had been cribbing prior to surgery. If performed before cribbing gets too bad, the success rate is much higher because this is an addictive behavior that gets worse with time. The more a horse cribs, the more it wants to crib. And the more a horse cribs, the less the chance of eliminating the habit.

 

[High Meadow Miniatures]

Hello, I have never had any horses that Cribbed or Sucked Air but I know of people that have, The bottom line is that they are BORED!!!!!!! & they should be!!! locked in a stall with nothing to do (I am NOT trying to offend anyone, just stating the facts)

: You may try buying him some toys, I have seen many of them, They keep a horse occupied. There is also a cribbing collar that they have out now too, Not sure how it works but it shocks them every time they crib, Not enough to hurt them but to tell them whats what. Hope this helps!

 

[Fred]

Wind sucking can be hereditary also. I can name specific lines in some breeds and I can guarantee you will find wind suckers in them. Yes a horse can pick it up but believe me there are some it is hereditary. I owned one raised it from a foal and saw several of his relations that were also windsuckers. A hard core windsucker is NOT interested in toys only in the fix it gets from sucking air. I have seen some so hard core that they will stand there and just suck air without gripping on to anything. As for the cribbing collar some horses will flip them around or rub it back and choke themselves in order to suck air.

 

[rockin r]

I had an Arab that did both. At times he looked like a gy blimp! What I did was buy enough PVC pipe and cut it (length wise) to make it fit snugly over the top of the board. He could not get his teeth to stay on it to crib or wind suck!! Worked like a charm!! I have used that method several times with friends horses. The pipe is too slick for them to hold their teeth on and they slip off bumping their noses, OUCH! After a few times they wont do it anymore. Good luck and remember the bigger around the PVC pipe the harder it is for them to get a grip on it...

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[Lil Bit O Country]

Thanks, I think I will try some PVC pipe over the edge of his feeder. His metal muzzel is working for now. But I can't see him wearing it for ever.

Sue

 

[Jill]

I haven't had a mini that does this but have seen it in some big horses.

With the cribbing and wind sucking, where does he do this? Does he do it only in his stall? or does he also do it in his paddock?

If he only does it in his stall, could you limit stall time / increase turn out time?

I read in one of my horse magazines years ago that a mare was cured of cribbing when they installed a mirror for her to look at. She stopped the cribbing in favor of time w/ her reflection!

Other than that toys and music could help if you've not already tried those.

What about a cribbing collar? Do they make them in mini size? Or could you make one or have a leather smith make one?

What you say about the smart ones being mroe prone to it -- I am sure that is correct. It's the smartest ones that get bored the fastest and then look for things to "entertain" themselves.

 

[Fred]

Jill it is an addiction. On a truly hard core windsucker not much of anything helps. I will say sometimes floating teeth can help as can toys and things for ones that are just bored and not totally addicted. Understand though it does run in bloodlines some are just addictive personalities as are people.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I always liken it to an alcoholic- many of us can have a drink now and then however some from the first drink are addicted and will do whatever it takes to get the next one..

Cribbers are the same once addicted they will do whatever it takes from cribbing on things you would think are not possible to enduring pain(cribbing collars as an example) and spend there days and nights coming up with ways to crib next. Like an alcoholic the only way to truly stop it is to have the horse want to stop it and I dont think that will ever happen.

Most can wear a collar for months even years and as soon as it is removed.. whamo back to doing it- it really doesnt have to be a boredom thing nor is it always a learned thing I find it rarely so.

I have had cribbers in my barn and they came here doing so and no one else learned it even though they watched it 24/7

New Studies have shown that really they don't ingest as much air as once thought and my cribbers live long healthy lives

For me I prefer to let them crib as not doing so can lead to ulcers and other behavior problems again no different then taking away the alcohol and expecting that alone to solve the addictive behavior and issues.

Just my two cents though

 

[High Meadow Miniatures]

Here my last suggestion- You can put up electric fencing & feed him on the ground

 

[Katiean]

I had a throughbred off the race track that would wind suck even while in the cross ties. I couldn't stop the practice. Besides, I didn't have him that long (about 6 mo). I don't know if either of his future homes were able to stop him. I do know that If I called him by his name on his papers "Randy" and said "NO" he would freak.

 

[iluvwalkers]

[SIZE=14pt]i have such a hard time to see a horse do this

, seems so sad to me. they say they get a high from doing it and so that's why it is so hard to stop the windsucking, it like a drug for them. off topic but weaving makes me even more sick to see. keeping them out will help some. good luck, Nikki[/SIZE]

 

[Margo_C-T]

I have a miniature gelding I raised that cribs(wind sucks). He is an "A" type personality, and I often wonder if he might not have started this had I provided him with LOTS of toys very early on. He has NEVER been confined to a stall, except at the OCCASIONAL show, and overnight in winter in really BAD weather; he has a 12' X 36' run attached to a 12'X 12' stall as his living arrangement-and is occasionally turned out-if there is grass to graze(unfortunately, not often here, esp. with the last few years of severe drought...)-and sometimes, in my large arena-and as he is one of my finest, he is also driven. He is not the 'worst' cribber I've ever seen, but is pretty confirmed in doing it. They make a Weaver cribbing collar in foal size, which,after punching extra holes in the straps, does fit him, and which I have on occasion used on him, for relatively brief periods of time--and it DOES work to prevent (he is a medium build 33 1/2" horse) him from the action, but he 'looks' MISERABLY uncomfortable wearing it(it almost certainly is NOT as uncomfortable as it looks; i.e., when a horse puts its head down to eat/drink, the collar is 'automatically' looser, and in no way interferes with either eating or drinking)-but over time, it does tend to rub(even though I made a fleece liner for the 'over the poll' strap). Bottom line-I decided not to obcess about it myself. He does sometimes appear a little 'inflated', but has NEVER had any health issues. When I was showing, I might have him wear the Weaver collar for the week or so before, and during, the show -- then removed it afterwards.

That said, I HAVE taken measures to MINIMIZE how successfully he is able to crib--mostly to help keep him from excessive wear of his upper incisors. My runs are constructed of panels welded of 1" square tubing. They are 'lined' with welded 2"X 4" wire, mostly to keep the horses from rubbing their manes out reaching through trying to eat any blade of grass, but also to discourage any dog/coyote from easily coming into the runs. I have ONE run that is 'lined' on one side and the end with mink wire--a VERY HD mesh with 1" openings similar to chicken wire-that I'd gotten from my dad, who once(MANY years ago, so no flames, please--I don't believe in wearing fur, either!) raised mink-and had this one 50' roll of this wire left. So, I placed this horse in this run. This left this run with one 36' side 'lined' with the 2x4 wire--so he was basically prevented from having any place on the sides of the run to crib--until he figured out how to crib sideways on the wire itself! So, I added plain chicken wire to that side--but it is really too lightweight, and has become broken/bent, and needs replacing. Where a bar of the panels became exposed, I then cut through one side of some semi-rigid, black "PVC" and slipped it over that panel. That is the ONLY place this horse can crib in this run, and he can't do it very efficiently. I also gave him a low profile, HD plastic 'water trough' as a feeder; he can't crib on it, as it just tips if he tries-plus it's too low for 'successful' cribbing--same w/ his water bucket. It is my intention to see if I can buy a roll of 1" x 2" welded wire, and redo the 'liner' of that side of his run. I don't THINK he can get a grip on that, even sideways,to successfully crib....

With wooden rails, the idea about cutting fairly large diameter PVC in half and placing in 'on top' of any rail the horse is cribbing on, seems like a good one to me--seems like you could just drill holes and screw down through the 'half-round' of PVC into the wooden rail at intervals, to keep it in place--and yes, it would need to be large enough in diameter so that the horse really couldn't 'get his mouth around it' successfully. These kinds of measures, combined with plenty of 'moving around' room, MINIMAL close confinement, offering toys and ANYTHING to keep his mind occupied, and plenty of turn out/exercise, should hopefull help, perhaps help a LOT. Fortunately, my horse(now 13 years old)is not the MOST obcessive cribber I've ever seen; the TRULY obcessive ones WILL find a way to continue it, to the detriment of their health and well-being--but with ones such as mine(who will frequently go and stand quietly asleep in a corner ), I can testify that it IS possible to successfully deter, or at least minimize, this activity, and without devices that are a hassle to either horse or caretaker--or both!

Good luck!

Margo

 

[MyBarakah]

Hi!

From my exerperience with the big horses seeing some of that behavior and then being with the minis... My first thing would be to have his teeth checked by a equine dentist, someone who really knows teeth. Some horses crip because of the pain of their teeth.... That's the first place I'd check....

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[Charlene]

i kept an arabian stud for a couple of years. i tried everything to get him to stop cribbing. i took everything out of his stall that he could possibly crib on. believe it or not, he was so hard core, he started cribbing on his knee.

 

[rockin r]

In addition to clarify my earlier post on this thread...When I said cut the PVC pipe..What I meant was measure the top of the board, they are usually 1/2-1" or 2"wide. I always use 2 x 6 or 8. Then cut that size out of the PVC pipe length wise. It will be a "VERY" snug fit, and may be hard to get on. What I do is raise the PVC up in the air and start it at the opening and work my way down the pipe/board. You should not have to use screws or anything else to secure it. If it is cut right the PVC will not move. And it will become permanate as you can not get it back off with out breaking the board..

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