Controversial Issue In Minnesota

[River Wood]

There is an issue going on in Minnesota here...and I am curious to know what you all think. Do you think the judge is wrong?

Long story short...a young boy of 13, has Hodgkin's lymphoma but his parents (and the boy) are against the idea of chemo as it is against their religious beliefs, their religion believes in traditional methods.

The court is ordering him to have further tests and if it is shown that he will benefit from chemo he will be ordered to do it against his wishes and that of his family. It will be treated as a case of child endangerment if they refuse.

What are your opinions.

 

[Minimor]

I don't really know where I stand on this issue. Many, many years ago in this area there was a boy that needed a blood transfusion, and his parents refused it on because of their religious beliefs. They were Jehovah's Witnesses and that religion does not allow for blood transfusions. Back then the authorities did not step in to override the parents' decision, and that boy died. I had a very hard time understanding how any parent could let their child die when the means to save his life were available.

In recent years there have been a few cases here where the courts did order treatment for a child after the parents refused to allow treatment. I can't say that I am opposed, particularly in the case of a child that is too young to make his/her own decision.

This topic has been covered in a recent episode of Law & Order: SVU --only in that show it was AIDS that was the issue. A young girl died of AIDS after her doctor and mother refused to acknowledge that she even had AIDS; when her older brother was also diagnosed with AIDS he initially refused treatment because of his upbringing...then had a change of heart and said he didn't want to die, so he was getting treatment at the end. The mother was arrested as was the doctor--and by that point I had no sympathy for them. "Just a show" but still based on real life issues and certainly food for thought when I watched it.

 

[user 488]

UGH! I find it disgusting that any parent could let a child die like that. I just don't get it and I never will. JMHO.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I grew up in a family of Jehovah's Witnesses, so I fully understand their beliefs. For myself, I can't say that "I" would accept a blood transfusion if I needed one.

However, I don't think I could deprive my husband or child of one if they needed one. I know that sounds hypocritical, but for some reason, I figure that just because "I" have certain beliefs, that doesn't mean that my husband or child should, or will always, believe the same, and I don't think I could make a life altering decision for them like that. Plus I admit it, I would be selfish and put my beliefs aside so that I could have my loved one longer.

I find this situation very sad, but I do understand both sides of it. Typically, parents are supposed to make the best decision they can for their child, based on their morals and beliefs. If they put that child's needs above what they feel God wants, then they feel they have sinned against God, as God should come first. However, I fully understand how the government feels they shouldn't just stand by when the child needs help. My heart goes out to everyone involved.

Edited to add...I honestly can not figure out why the Government is so interested in forcing these parents into this decison, when there's literally thousands of other parents who wish that they could get similar treatment for their children, but can't because of financial/health insurance reasons. Why doesn't the Government step in, in those situations as well?

 

[nbark]

I believe in religious freedom, BUT, a child is not old enough to chose his or her religion and parents who want to follow their own believes should be able to refuse treatment for themselves, but not for a child, who in the end could die. I think it is being selfish.

How about a family who is told not to have children because of a fatal disease they all are carrying, that will kill all of them, and has, and they still selfishly go out and have children, who are now dying, young, from the same disease.

How can anyone be that selfish as to sign, seal and deliver a death warrant on their children just because they wanted to have children. Is adoption that taboo for some of these people.

 

[~Lisa~]

UGH! I find it disgusting that any parent could let a child die like that. I just don't get it and I never will. JMHO.

I could not say it better. I am all for respecting ones religious beliefs as long as they do not hurt anyone else and in this case it surely would be.

As a parent I can not understand justifying in any way shape or form letting my child die

Would not be the first time that someone did something totally and completly selfish and not in the best interest of others all in the "name of religion"

 

[Pepipony]

He is a child and cannot make up his own mind yet. So for now if his parents wont do what is needed to save his life, then someone needs to step in. Once he is of legal age, then he can decide for himself. JMHO after all , I believe that smoking in the car with windows rolled up and kids in tow is child abuse and should be treated as such.

 

[Minimor]

Meant to say earlier--the child in the original post has Hodgkins lymphona, which is VERY curable. It's a cancer that progresses from lymph node to lymph node, in order--it does not spread willy nilly through the body--so it is extremely likely that with treatment this child will be cured (I have an uncle that had Hodgkins several years ago).

I could understand the parents' position better if this were a cancer that was pretty much incurable, and the chemo was more of an experiment than anything--it was not going to cure the child, nor even extend his life, but most probably would make his remaining time more difficult and miserable. In that case I can see where a parent would not want to put their child through that. When the treatment is known to be very effective I will say no, I don't think the judge made the wrong decision in this case.

 

[Mona]

Yes, I heard that on the radio today. (I listen to a Minnesota station) They said with Chemo, he has a 90% chance of survival...without it, a 90% chance he'll die. That really should be a "no-brainer"!!

 

[tagalong]

I guess that for those parents. it all comes down to what matters more to them - their son and the life he can lead - or their beliefs. It should be an obvious no-brainer - and I simply cannot understand them allowing their son to die...

 

[krissy3]

It took me many years past my adulthood to form my own beliefs and dismiss the beliefs that my parents forced on to me . As a child you dont know anything different ...for this reason alone I think its right for the athorities to step in..especially when it is a matter of living or dieing.

 

[Relic]

l have no problem with the courts stepping in but on the other hand l can imagine also that some people are very faithful and have deep roots in there beliefs...at whatever the cost for some.

 

[Littleum]

This qualifies as "slippery slope" in my mind. You're all so quick to shake your fingers at the parents, but do you really want the law telling you how to raise and handle your kids?

Anyway, if the parents were well and truly devout, and this didn't smack of "cult", then I personally side with the parents. If they truly believe, and are rationale people, then it is NOT for the courts to choose. Those are 2 big "ifs" that we don't know. I can't say I'd support cultists nor the deluded. But I'd support the truly faithful. They have a right to raise their children in their faith- even if you don't agree with the consquences. The question in my mind isn't if they have the right to do so, but are they both rationale and devout... or are they brainwashed and nutty?

I understand the argument that the kid is 13 and the parents have a duty to him, but I also believe that at 13, he's old enough to know his own mind. Again, a lot depends on is this a kid who's been brainwashed and indoctrinated by brainwashed parents, or is this a normal kid from a normal family that just has some "not so normal" (and potentially hazardous) beliefs?

What about circumcision of infant boys? The medical community is still out on that one. Some say it causes problems, others say it is beneficial. Now if conclusive evidence is uncovered that, say, circumcision prevents HUGE risks not previously recognized, and medical advice goes against it... well... what do you tell the Jewish population? No, you can't circumcise your sons anymore because you're dooming them to this horrible condition? That's pretty much what we're talking about here.

How many of you were raised in spiritual households and do not resent a strict religious upbringing, but instead draw great strength from your faith? How many of you resent your parents "cramming" it down your throat? Am I right in my assumption that there's a mixed bag there? How can you say that this 13 year old really does want to follow in his parents' faith, and even if he's physically healed, won't feel spiritually violated the rest of his life?

 

[Pepipony]

I agree, slippery slope. That is why I feel that if the person is an adult, then the decision is theirs and we truly have no say. When people ask if they truly want the law to step in, I ask this. Do we then take the Psych hold off suicidal people? Do we just let people that arent in their right minds, do what they will to themselves?

 

[Annabellarose]

This is one of the many reasons that I struggle with religion. I just can't understand why anyone would believe that God would want us to suffer and to die when there is a cure for what makes us ill. If you believe that you are not to accept medical treatment because that is what God wants, do you not believe that it is a possibility that God gave that doctor or that scientist a way to find that cure to help you, to help everyone? I like the idea of a kind God, a loving God, a God that doesn't want us to suffer and to die. Yes, we are meant to die, eventually, but why should we die of something that can be cured? I also believe that God wants us to help ourselves when we can.

TRUE STORY: I knew a lady that was so religious, so faithful, that she believed that she did not need to fence in her animals (dogs, goats, horses, pot-bellied pigs, etc.). She would say, "if God wants me to have these animals or if God wants these animals to survive, he will make them stay home and keep them safe and alive without fences". She was constantly losing dogs and goats because they were getting hit on the road. I almost hit a mare and foal standing in the middle of the road on my way home late one night. This issue seems similar to me, in a way.

I know that people believe that God has the power to heal and to save, but I think that it is okay for us to help ourselves when we can as long as we lead a good life and don't hurt others in the process or don't hurt others to save ourselves. Blood for blood transfusions is willingly donated. They don't kill people on purpose to drain their blood so that you and I may use it and continue to live, people willingly donate their blood because they want to help save someone's life, they believe that they are making a difference. To me, that is a wonderful gesture!

 

[Minimor]

This qualifies as "slippery slope" in my mind. You're all so quick to shake your fingers at the parents, but do you really want the law telling you how to raise and handle your kids?

Laws telling you how to raise/handle your kids are one thing, but I'm not convinced that health care--especially life saving health care--is quite in the same category.

Up here in Canada it is pretty much illegal for parents to spank their kids...so if SPANKING is against the law then it should surely be a crime to for a parent to allow a child to DIE.

 

[Sonya]

It is a touchy subject as far as how much do we want gov't running our lives? But I agree why should someone's life be cut short when thier chances of survival are great...especially when they are young.

I had a very dear friend who died at a very young age due to religious issues....she was only in her early 30's and died of a very curable cervical cancer. She found out about the cancer shortly after she found out she was pregnant with her 7th child. The Dr. advised her to abort baby and have surgery...chemo would probably not be necessary at that point. She decided to carry baby full term (this part I can understand). Dr said ok fine we will induce labor at a safe point and then go on to surgery and chemo/radiation. She again said no...Dr said ok we will wait and as soon as baby is born begin chemo/radiation/surgery. She agreed, after the baby was born though she decided no....God had intended her to breast feed her children and she couldn't do that if she had chemo/radiation. She also chose to totally dismiss her doctors and follow this religious website about how God and healthy foods could cure her. Her chances of survival after baby was born with chemo/radiation/surgery were very good but no she chose to die a few months after the birth of her last child and leave 7 children without a mother. It was also a very controversial issue at the time and was in the papers, etc...

I think about her everyday as I am sure her motherless children, husband, sisters, and parents do as well...to be honest...I am still angry at her! It did not have to end that way. The pictures in the below article make me sick, literally...this is not the way I choose to remember her.

Portraits of a Mom

Portrait of a Mom letters

 

[miniwhinny]

What about circumcision of infant boys? The medical community is still out on that one. Some say it causes problems, others say it is beneficial. Now if conclusive evidence is uncovered that, say, circumcision prevents HUGE risks

It has come out a few months ago.

If I was god...first thing I'd do is BAN religion

 

[Sanny]

This whole case is so sad.

I am in Minnesota and have followed what has been going on with it. This is a 13 year old boy that could neither read nor understand the affidavit he signed saying he preferred "native" treatments over chemotherapy for his Hodgkin's lymphoma. He can't even read.

At all.

He has been supposedly homeschooled by his parents but when he was evaluated he was unable to read or identify any word, including the word "THE". His parents paid a fee to join a native american band (Nemenhah Band) which has been convicted of grand theft and theft by deceptive practices at least twice. They are following all this tribal stuff (they are not actually native americans -- they paid to join the tribe) and this kid has been "certified" by the tribe as a church elder and as a medicine man. None of it makes any sense at all.

There was a study done that showed that most of the children who died over a 20 year period because of religion related medical neglect - 140 of 172 children - had a 90 perent chance or better of surviving had they received conventional treatment.

I think there are times when families (like this one) NEED intervention by other people or by the government because they are not well-informed or making good choices. I don't care what an adult decides for themselves -- they are adults, after all -- but when innocent children are the victims of stupid adult choices I have a problem with it. We do foster care and the majority of kids that are in the system are there because of their idiot parents making horrible choices that affect their innocent childrens lives.

From my personal experiences, in high school I had a friend who was diabetic and for religious reasons her family decided she shouldn't be treated for it or take medication / insulin anymore. within months she died - her sophomore year in high school and it was the saddest funeral I have ever attended.

I also have (had) a cousin that had strict religious beliefs and wanted nothing to do with doctors and hospitals and was pregnant and was having the baby at home with a midwife from their church and had complications that resulted in them calling 911 and rushing her to the hospital after all to try and save her but it was too late and she died that day and her baby died a day or so later and they were buried together in the same casket. She would have lived had she had regular medical care. Her family was devastated and her mother (my aunt) has never been the same. She can't handle going to church and can't go to funerals. She came to my sisters funeral but was unable to bring herself to actually come in the church and attend the service. She sat on a bench outside the whole time.

 

[txminipinto]

What about circumcision of infant boys? The medical community is still out on that one. Some say it causes problems, others say it is beneficial. Now if conclusive evidence is uncovered that, say, circumcision prevents HUGE risks

It has come out a few months ago.

If I was god...first thing I'd do is BAN religion

AMEN!

Mary sheds some important light on to this situation...

1)These people PAID to become part of Native American Tribe

2) They are "home schooling" their child yet their child can't read.

Obviously, these individuals are not educated enough nor thinking in the best interest of everyone involved when it comes to their child. For whatever reason, they are shunning proper education and proper medical care. And while that is their choice for themselves, it shouldn't be forced on their child. I think we can all agree that a 13 year old who is being home schooled and can't read isn't in the best environment to become a self-sufficient adult. Obviously, the authorities need to step in to save this child.

Which brings up another topic...home schooling. I know several people who home school their children for what ever reasons......a few of these kids are on target to go to college....most will have a hard time surviving on their own because they are sheltered and handfed. Home schooling is fine if you keep your kids on target and they actually learn. But if they aren't, send them to public school where the professionals can educate them. There's more to public school than just book knowledge. It's also the social interaction and learning how to survive in a social world. Many of the home school kids I've known lack the very basic, but very important social skills they'll need as adults!