Conformation question

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What does is mean when someone says they do not like the way the neck ties in at the shoulder ?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but does anyone have a picture that shows where it is supposed to ties in ?
[SIZE=14pt]Tia, I dont have a picture but picture this in your head. See the horses shoulder blade. Some low set necks come into the body BELOW this point. It is prefered that it is above that. Also where it comes out from the top at the withers, if it is a nice upheaded look then the lower line of the neck SHOULD tie in above the point of the shoulder. Clear as mud right?[/SIZE]

a really low neck set almost looks like the neck is coming out between the horses two front legs. It should be nicely set ON TOP of the chest and well defined even if the horse isnt in show shape.
That's what I thought but I wish I could see a diagram. Thanks for your help
I have always thought Mouse had a nice tie-in to his neck. After reading Lyn's post, I'm not so sure it is that great, but it IS better than many. I drew an arrow in blue to show where his neck ties in at on the bottom. As far as it tieing in higher than his withers, I don't think that is how it is, for if I draw a line from there to his withers, it is angled downward. Maybe I'm misreading Lyn's post, but anyway, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I just thought this was a good example of a good tie-in. Next post, I will find one that has a not so nice tie-in.


Liz M.

Now this one I think does not have the nice tie-in that Mouse does. This is my mare Lailah. I would prefer that her neck tied in higher, but that is just me.

I put a yellow line where I think Lyn is referring to the tie-in and the withers and the angle thereof.

I don't know that I have ever seen a horse that had one that tied in higher than the withers and if I did, I did not realize what I was looking at. I have a LOT to learn!

Again, I am open for education on this matter!

Liz M.

Here is the same one as the first image, but I put a yellow line again, where I think Lyn is referring to tie-in vs. withers, and I get a pretty steep angle up towards the withers.

If it should be like I am interpreting what Lyn is saying, the angle should be the other way...?

I also put pink lines on the angles of his hip and shoulder, hoping that is what people are seeing when they evaluate conformation, because it is where I look as a starting point to see if a horse's overall proportions are pleasing and are going to produce the movement I need in a driving horse.

I am sorry to hijack your thread, Tia, but I thought maybe someone would come in and correct me if I'm wrong, or confirm what I'm seeing.

Feel free to take either of my photos and re-evaluate and/or edit w/your own lines.

Both horses are mine and I have thick skin.

Liz M.
[SIZE=14pt]Liz Mouse is fine. The point of his shoulder is about half way below the arrow and above his elbow. Your little fillys isnt as nice hers is right at the point of her shoulder maybe a tad below. IT seems to go with a more upright shoulder much of the time. If you look at the angle of her shoulder it is steeper than mouses. His is a nice tie in.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Thanks for that, Lyn![/SIZE]

I agree w/what you see, and now I understand better what you are saying.

Yes, she does have a steepish shoulder and a low tie-in. It makes her neck look thicker than it is, but I would love for this mare to have both a higher tie-in and a longer neck, but we're breeding for that!

I appreciate your experience and observations.

Liz M.
Liz, necks tie in both at the bottom and the top. I think what Lynn was referring to is that the topline of the neck should "tie in" as far as possible behind the withers. Some horses look like their necks sprout out of the front on the withers, i.e. they have a neck, then a dip, then withers, then a back. A well-conformed horse has no dip in front of the withers because his neck ties in well. This is important because in order for a horse to collect up well, they have to be able to coil their topline. The muscles in the top of the neck connect to the backwards-pointing spines of the withers so that contracting those muscles raises the back. A horse who can't do that can't collect easily because the leverage system of the neck is sort of disconnected. Sorry that's not a very clear picture, but the point is that yes you misinterpreted Lynn's post! LOL

[SIZE=14pt]Yes Leia, thats what I meant about tieing in at the withers. I would like a neck to at least start at the withers if not a bit behind. Those that start in front of most often end up looking ewe necked at some point.[/SIZE]

Liz my filly from this year is the same way! I will post her when I get a better pic of her.

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That's what I wanted, thanks Liz !! I like to "see" what we are talking about.
liz that is so cool how you did that!!! how do you put the lines and arrows in?? Great examples
I appreciate this thread! The pictures with the lines are really helpful and I have learned another thing to look for on horses. I'd also heard people mention how the neck ties in but didn't totally understand what they meant and now I think I do. Thanks!

Maybe we can have more threads like this? This really has been informative.

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