Collars.....

[Katie Iceton]

SO i have ordered a pairs harness from Ron's harness up here in Canada. It arrived today, unfortunatly....the collars I ordered do not fit...

Now this is most likely a measuring screw up on my part, as I ordered 15 and 14 inch collars...but its what I measured them as, using the way his website recommended. The collars are wayyyy too wide, I can get a hand on one side even on the 14 inch collar. I am emailing him to see if I can exchange, but I am scared to go to 13 inch as it will be too small. The collars are also fixed at the top, there is no adjustment buckle... My 37.5 inch gelding has a very narrow neck....my 36.5 inch mare has a bit of a thicker neck but the collar is still wide for her.

But does anyone have any tips for measuring for collars as well as pictures of properly fitted ones?

I am just lost right now as there is no where around here I can find collars to try on and make sure they fit before ordering, and I am worried about trying a smaller size and them not fitting at all.

Thanks in advance for any help

Katie

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I'd advise you to call or e-mail Ron's and discuss this problem with them. I have found them to be very helpful in sorting out fit issues with my horses. That said, I just want to say that fitting collars is not as simple as it might appear and fitting collars to minis is often VERY challenging. We have recently given up (temporarily at least) trying to fit my husbands 30" geldings with collars and have switched to breast collar harnesses for them. It is far easier to adjust a breast collar than a neck collar on a mini.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Collars are HARD, especially for the minis. Kody takes a 12" collar at most but his neck is so narrow and so low-set that what would fit right when he's moving (and hence arching his topline/sucking up the bottom of his neck) practically chokes him when he's standing still and has tons of room on each side to wobble around. He also has bony shoulders so he made it clear that he does not like having a hard leather collar sitting on them. It would have to fit perfectly which it can't due to all the flab at the bottom of his neck. D'oh! Turbo's got a much nicer, cleaner lower neck and could probably fit a nice 11-12" collar, but why bother? On him a regular breast collar sits high enough to cause no problems and is both faster and easier to put on.

The other problem with minis besides shoulder and neck conformation is that they often have big heads with large eye orbits so it's very difficult to pull a well-fitting collar over their heads. You almost have to get one that opens so you can slip it up around their necks and then add the hames.

I like the whole concept of collars, the look of a nice one, and would love to have one for my boys. But the fact is for minis they're usually heavy, cumbersome, don't fit well and look ugly when they do. They look fine in the full draft getups but are way too much with a carriage-type harness. When somebody comes up with a nice patent show collar for minis that is truly proportional I'll be interested but as long as they are those 4" thick buggy collars...no way. Give me a set of Freedom Collars any day.

Call Ron, see what he recommends and maybe send him pictures of your horses' necks.

Leia

Edited to add: In rereading I realized I skipped two of your main questions. In measuring, hold the two carpenter's squares so you are measuring as close to the true "length" (top to bottom) of the neck base as you can. Don't include loose lower skin and fleshy areas, just the areas the collar should be tight around when the horse is collected and moving. They end up too big if you measure the other way like I did at first!

Second, regarding the collars being too wide, I'm told new collars should be soaked in water and then put on the horse wet so they shape themselves to the horse during the workout. I know you can kneel on the bottom of the collar to spread it out to go over the eyes, I would assume you could kneel (gently!) on the sides to help narrow the collar?

 

[disneyhorse]

You might look into getting collar pads for those collars. They will take up the collars a bit as well as fill in the sides. They also make pads (at least they do for light and draft horses that I know of) that are split to fill in wide collars but not shorten them up.

Also, sometimes the collars fit a little differently when they are pulling versus just standing there. How you fit the hames on the collars will also affect the fit. How the collars are broken in also affect the fit!

Full collars are very difficult to fit... and that's why they make them full versus half sweeney, etc.!

Good luck,

Andrea

Oh, here's a link:

Collar pads

The deer hair pads are very padded and thick. But they might be a little too thick for what you're describing. The felt pads are typically about half the thickness or less. I'd try a felt one.

The pads should be longer than the collars... so a 20" collar would have a 22" pad and so on.

 

[Katie Iceton]

Thanks guys for your replies

I am going to send them back, not sure if I shoul exchange or not, as I was looking at Chimacum, and it looks as though their collars have the buckle at the top to open and close the collar. Does anyone have any experience with their collars?

I would really like them to work in collars as I want to do some log skidding and fun stuff with them which require a collar versus a breastcollar.

Leia, yes Shadow has a very thin neck and protruding shoulders....which is probably going to be a bit of an issue.

I will keep on the search for that perfect fit

Katie

 

[hobbyhorse23]

The collars I've tried were from Chimacum and Camptown and look much like every other mini collar I've seen. (I wonder sometimes if there's only one shop making them in the whole country!

)

I've done light log skidding in my freedom collar and it worked fine.

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

I saw last weekend that Iowa Valley Carriage now carries a full collar measuring device.

But that being said, I have seen very few minis that I am impressed with the full collar fit.

Myrna

 

[paintponylvr]

Hi. I'm not sure about fitting the minis that you have - my ponies are substancially larger! My 40" shetland mares wear 14" collars. The 43" mare can wear the same collar as she lacks muscling at this time (she's been a pasture broodmare for years & likes moving w/ her head down). My 38" mare measures out to 12 3/4", so I will order a 13" collar for her - the 14 is definitely too large. Mine have the hinged long bar latch to open and close the collars. They appear to fit well on my mares...

My two collars were purchased thru Mules and Moore of SC. http://mulesandmoore.com/index.htm I believe they get their collars from "Amish country" in OH. Possibly from Coblentz collars - http://www.manta.com/c/mm38dr3/coblentz-collar-shop . Other shops that have mini sized collars would be Bowmans Harness - http://www.caaonline.com/caa_content.asp?PageType=Dept&Key=6&MType=HA&MTypeDesc=Harness, Valley Harness - also in Millersburg, OH but my catalog w/ contact info is with a friend & Fairveiw Country Sales - 3062 Cty Rd 160, Millersburgh, OH 44654 - 330.359.1501 - Merl is great to deal with. This is where I ordered my pairs 'work/farm harness' from.

Pics - https://picasaweb.google.com/purplepaintpony/BellBitShetlandMarePair# , https://picasaweb.google.com/purplepaintpony/Bell1992ShetlandPonyMare#, https://picasaweb.google.com/purplepaintpony/Bit1991ShetlandPonyMare#

My friends' first harness was a nylon made by Ron's Harness (breast collar type). She had some issues with the harness and called Ron's and they were good and fast with helping her to sort out the problems. Due to having a problem with a girth buckle (it kept coming undone) - they just replaced the whole girth - free of charge/shipping! It did the trick, too. She had other questions - they answered them.

I'd love to know how you fit your two minis!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Paula, I LOVE your two girls!! My first equine was a palomino Shetland pony mare with that same sweet, Welsh/Arab type face and Bit and Bell bring those days back with a vengeance.

I'm also enamored with their farm equipment and neat draft harness. Wow!

I do have to laugh because people drive for so many different reasons. My boys know all about working to the bit, bending, etc., but would probably freak if a singletree was dragging along behind their heels like that!

It occurs to me that if my pair aren't ready to work at speed in a fine cart, there's certainly no reason I couldn't start them doing things like that drag and introduce a lot of "walk and whoa" for awhile. It would be good for them.

Thanks for the ideas! I'm beginning to see what you mean about the links as well.

Leia

 

[paintponylvr]

Paula, I LOVE your two girls!! My first equine was a palomino Shetland pony mare with that same sweet, Welsh/Arab type face and Bit and Bell bring those days back with a vengeance.

I'm also enamored with their farm equipment and neat draft harness. Wow!

I do have to laugh because people drive for so many different reasons. My boys know all about working to the bit, bending, etc., but would probably freak if a singletree was dragging along behind their heels like that!

It occurs to me that if my pair aren't ready to work at speed in a fine cart, there's certainly no reason I couldn't start them doing things like that drag and introduce a lot of "walk and whoa" for awhile. It would be good for them.

Thanks for the ideas! I'm beginning to see what you mean about the links as well.

Leia

AWWWWW,

thanks. What neat way to be welcomed into the fold of a newly joined forum!!

Kinda funny - the dragging the singletree technique was taught to me in 1997 by a fine harness Hackney/Arab/Saddlebred trainer. He said that things break and wrecks happen and that it was better to have them prepared... That was one way to do it (I was surprised! It wasn't that much different than the pulling of logs we did w/ our paints/QH when I rode as a youngster myself in the 70s/80s). He showed me other techniques over a 6 month period where I joined him sporadically before he got out of the horse business completely (a stroke rendered him un-able to care for his horses himself)...

I also use a "shaft trainer" - though my current set is too large for my ponies and I haven't taken the time to fix that issue...They don't drag on the ground - but get a pony used to them banging against their sides or flipping up and down behind the tail and breeching...a pic of a short 2 yr old shet/arab x filly - ICshaftTrainer ICcanter. For these ponies, I used a single pvc pipe hooked thru the shaft carrier and dragging on the ground beside/behind them - one at a time. Switch sides, then introduce them to both sides at one time...

My first singletree was a wooden one - that I then used to hook them to a tire. Yes, I did a lot of ground driving pulling just that single tree and then a tire (the first time Bit was hooked to a tire - the rodeo was on!!!) I discovered how glad i ws that I'd been taught that you always kept one driving line on a green pony/horse out of the rein turrets so that you could turn a ground drive into a lounging exercise. "Whoa" became non-existant in her vocabulary - even tho up until that point she'd been working with it for years in halter, while producing foals, lounging and being ridden. I don't know how many times we broke that breakable single strand of haystring before she began to calm down and respond to "whoa" and pull the tire quietly. Was almost as bad the first time I attached a pole through her shaft carrier. Sorry - have no pics of the rodeo(s) over a 1 month period... then as suddenly as she exploded - she reached a point where she calmed down and quit doing that. Now, she's my slower pulling pony in the hitch pair (with the wagon) & I'm having to use a "buckback strap" on Bell.

 

[paintponylvr]

I do have to laugh because people drive for so many different reasons. My boys know all about working to the bit, bending, etc., but would probably freak if a singletree was dragging along behind their heels like that!

It occurs to me that if my pair aren't ready to work at speed in a fine cart, there's certainly no reason I couldn't start them doing things like that drag and introduce a lot of "walk and whoa" for awhile. It would be good for them.

Leia

Now, I need the experience of getting them to respond better thru the bit (s) (both singly & as a pair) and bend properly. But the basics are nicely there for me to build upon (I think?)...

 

[hobbyhorse23]

He said that things break and wrecks happen and that it was better to have them prepared...
I also use a "shaft trainer" - though my current set is too large for my ponies and I haven't taken the time to fix that issue...They don't drag on the ground - but get a pony used to them banging against their sides or flipping up and down behind the tail and breeching... For these ponies, I used a single pvc pipe hooked thru the shaft carrier and dragging on the ground beside/behind them - one at a time. Switch sides, then introduce them to both sides at one time...

He's absolutely right. I have a tendency to want to keep my ponies away from scary unpredictable things when they're green and have to remember that I'm not doing them any favors by that approach. I've been twapping the bushes with my whip while ground-driving the colt, playing Kick-the-Can on the pavement behind him as he walks along, and I've now graduated to throwing that can forward over his ears and bouncing it off his hind legs as he walks with no apology or warning. I'm quite proud of how well he's doing! I'm not a fan of the "desensitize by overwhelming them until they get over it" technique (I tend to prefer keeping them safe so they learn nothing bad ever happens around me and then introduce stuff once they trust me) but things DO go wrong and horses do need to learn how to deal with it. I love a trainer that can get hot-bloods to do so confidently and still show with animation and style.

Kody will drag logs without complaint, stepping over the jury-rigged long traces and not caring about the tree branch following him, but I think a light singletree close to his pasterns would really bother him. He was awfully touchy about it when I hitched him to a sled last winter and I don't know if it was claustrophobia or uncertainty about his footing in the snow or what. Either way, he'd really benefit from some careful desensitization work. If it rolls, he's bombproof, but dragging he's never been taught!

My first singletree was a wooden one - that I then used to hook them to a tire. Yes, I did a lot of ground driving pulling just that single tree and then a tire (the first time Bit was hooked to a tire - the rodeo was on!!!) I discovered how glad i ws that I'd been taught that you always kept one driving line on a green pony/horse out of the rein turrets so that you could turn a ground drive into a lounging exercise. "Whoa" became non-existant in her vocabulary - even tho up until that point she'd been working with it for years in halter, while producing foals, lounging and being ridden. I don't know how many times we broke that breakable single strand of haystring before she began to calm down and respond to "whoa" and pull the tire quietly. Was almost as bad the first time I attached a pole through her shaft carrier. Sorry - have no pics of the rodeo(s) over a 1 month period... then as suddenly as she exploded - she reached a point where she calmed down and quit doing that. Now, she's my slower pulling pony in the hitch pair (with the wagon) & I'm having to use a "buckback strap" on Bell.

Yeah, I think sometimes a drag tire is far scarier than pulling an actual cart. I've got both my boys following my tire at liberty and pawing at it confidently but neither one is happy to be in front of it. They don't mind...hmm. Wait. I just realized as I was writing that if I'm dragging the tire along without thought as something I'm only moving from one place to another, they could care less. They only get nervous when I'm treating it as a formal "Let's play with the tire!" session. Epiphany!! Just like a formal training session is always anxiety-producing while an unplanned "throw the tack on" always goes fine. They worry about why I'm tense and if they're going to do things right and they get tense too.

Note to self- treat all tire exercises and dragging of single- and doubletrees as just a chore we're getting done. Free-form training sessions with no expectations have worked very well for us but I've been getting away from that in my hurry to get Turbo trained in time for a couple of events we've got coming.

Interesting insight! Thanks for bringing that up, Paula.

Leia

 

[Katie Iceton]

I am just waiting on a smaller set of collars to arrive from Ron's harness!! Will post pics if they fit!!