Can someone tell me What's going on??

[AppyLover2]

Wiz (the older of the Kansas Kids) has me totally confused. He's been acting quite studdy (Miss Kitty came in season right after they got here) even though he was a gelding when he arrived at Sharon's. The 2 who were gelded about 5 weeks ago pay no attention to her. I put all of them together on Friday for the first time. There was quite a bit of posturing and fighting going on. Wiz seems to be the one my other geldings want to protect Kitty from. They will stay between he and Kitty and try to run him away if he gets near her. Yesterday there was still some bickering and posturing but not as much kicking and fighting. This morning, they're in their barn lots (older ones separated by a fence from newer ones and separated from Dee (my big guy) by another fence) but there's been a lot of squeeling going on. I've been watching and Dee is standing by the the fence and Wiz keeps charging him. He'll back away 5 or 6 steps, someimes more, then turn and charge again and again. While I was watching them it happened over and over again (maybe 15 or 20 times before I walked away from the window). Dee just stands and looks at him like "what's goin' on"?

I'm wondering the same thing....what IS going on?? Anybody have any ideas? I'm clueless.

 

[Jill]

Was he recently a stallion? I had a 5yo stallion gelded a few years ago, and it was a good while before he stopped acting really stud-ish. And, you would not ever know he's NOT a stallion when he sees us breeding DunIT to mares

I'm thinking it is just going to be "awhile" before your guy realizes he's "only" a gelding and he may keep acting like this when mares are in heat for another year or so.

 

[Minimor]

In his case I would have a test done to check his testosterone levels, just to make sure that he is completely gelded.

 

[Connie P]

Donna,

The first thing that comes to my mind is recent gelding? or possibly a retracted testicle and only one removed? Was he gelded at your farm or the other?

Other than that it might just be that he is feeling better and is going to MAKE DARN SURE that he is the boss this time so he doesn't have to starve.............hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Please know that I am not being sarcastic at all. Just trying to honestly think of why he is being so aggressive all of a sudden.

 

[Jill]

Also, geldings can for all appearances breed mares, and I mean more than just mounting them. I have seen some of mine do this and they are ones I personally watched being gelded and saw both testicles come out of them. Also, Derby (my gelding who was a senior stallion) is not the only of our geldngs who are very visibly arroused when DunIT's tending to his mares. Horses have no shame. Gelding does not eliminate all the urges. I used to own a horse who i had gelded at 6mos old. Caught him fully breeding one of my mares as a yearling!

 

[AppyLover2]

Thanks for the replies. I have no idea when Wiz was gelded. He came from Vern's farm that way. There's no way of knowing when or how it was done. The vet who worked on them at Sharon's gelded everybody else (I have to assume they didn't do him because there's no obvious equipment) so I've wondered whether when it was done they missed something. I'll definitely have testosterone level checked.

Connie, I appreciate your comments (as I do all of them). Regarding the food.......they're definitely becoming more assertive about it since they're feeling better. Toto (who was very submissive) will even stand his ground now and not just walk away when someone else decides they want his feed too.

Edited to add: More squeeling going on now. He was just aggravating one of his buddies. He seems to be just looking for a fight this morning......doesn't matter who it's with.

Gotta add too that it felt sooooo good to turn them out in the pasture yesterday for the first time. I'd been letting them graze in the yard for a couple of weeks.....but got tired of cleaning the poop up in the yard as well as the "normal" places. LOL

 

[Margo_C-T]

If memory serves, seems to me like at some point in all that went on, Mr. T was quoted as saying something to the effect that if a horse only had one, that you could just take that one....??? My guess would be that this horse may well be 'proud cut'-meaning incompletely gelded, whatever the reason. "Back in the day", when it was 'way more common for people to do their own gelding, or have some local 'layperson' do it, there was more of this--for one thing, there is a 'gland'(I know there is more accurate terminology, just can't think what it is at this moment!)that lies ABOVE each testicle on the cord-this has to be removed,too--not just the testicle, or the horse can still exhibit 'entire' stallion behaviors-often even more pronounced, in my observation-squealing, screaming, etc.-and sometimes, 'laypersons' just flat didn't know this, or for some reason, missed removing them. IMO, it is quite possible that could have happened with some of these horses--i.e., a layperson doing the castration(or,the supposed castration!) And, if you go ahead and 'geld' a horse with only one descended testicle, and just don't 'bother' about the other one--well...........

It is also a small possibility that this is learned behavior, and he just never 'gave it up'...?

In my youth, a local woman who taught English riding lessons bought a handsome Palomino to use as a lesson horse. This horse turned out to be seriously PROUD CUT ! We were told she had him 'redone' not once, but TWICE by different veterinarians(it had NOT been a vet who 'cut' him the first time), but he NEVER dropped the extreme stallion-like behaviors...it was an object lesson,for sure!

Since having geldings actually penetrate mares is a good way for the mares to become infected internally, it is preferable that a gelding whio would attempt to do so be kept out of the company of in-heat mares--only one of the several reasons why a 'proud cut' horse can be a pain-in-the-neck. Hopefully, this horse won't be trying that particular stallion-like behavior. The fact that you are seeing it now may WELL be linked to the fact that the horse is now feeling much better!

Good luck,

Margo

 

[Marty]

Sounds like a lot of raging hormones going on over there

Boy am I glad I have BOTH Timmy's meatballs in my freezer

Can you reach up there and see if you can feel around for another one???

 

[Connie P]

Marty if you only knew how badly I needed that laugh today!!!!!!!!!!!! Your a hoot!

 

[AppyLover2]

Marty the only way I'd reach up there and feel for another one is if either he or I were on something.... something strong.....something very strong.

 

[Just Us N Texas]

The gland or tube you were referring to is called the vas deferens. If not removed properly, it can cause a gelding to act studdish. When gelding here, I ask to see the tube while the veterinarian is still doing his deed. (that is exactly what it looks like, a tube) Not removing it will just cause him to be studdish, but not able to produce. You don't want a gelding mounting your mares and fully breeding them, because it could carry a lot of infections and "dirtiness" in your mare, and she may have to be cleaned up before breeding.

 

[KathyB]

I purchased a gelding last year who acted very studdy for the first six months or so. I had thought "proud cut", but he is absolutely fine with the mares now.

 

[nluszcz]

for one thing, there is a 'gland'(I know there is more accurate terminology, just can't think what it is at this moment!)that lies ABOVE each testicle on the cord-this has to be removed,too--not just the testicle, or the horse can still exhibit 'entire' stallion behaviors-often even more pronounced, in my observation-squealing, screaming, etc.-and sometimes

This is a misconception. The epididymis is the organ you are talking about, and it has absolutely no effect on behavior or hormones. The problem you are refering to is proud cutting, and that involves leaving TESTICULAR tissue behind, not epididymal tissue. That organ produces no hormones, it just matures spermatozoa and stores them until needed.

The gland or tube you were referring to is called the vas deferens. If not removed properly, it can cause a gelding to act studdish.

The vas deferens is just a tube, nothing more. It connects the epididymis to the penis. It produces no hormones; actually it produces nothing. All it does is transport sperm. Leaving it in the body has the same effect as leaving a blood vessel. In fact, you'd have more studdish behavior by leaving blood vessels from the castration, since the blood vessels contain blood (duh) that contains high levels of testosterone produced by the testicles. ONLY testicular tissue (one type of cell in the testicles, in fact) produces the male hormone testosterone (the only scrotal source at least).

 

[AppyLover2]

Ok......to confuse the issue even more, Wiz totally ignored the mare today. But he kept picking fights with all the others. I finally gave up on all of it and put them in their respective barn lots around 2. When I went out to feed around 4:30 he was charging Dee through the fence again, as well as picking fights with the other mini geldings. He even stuck his nose through the cattle panel fence and bit Dee on the belly. It was not pretty, Dee squeeled and kicked out. I'm afraid after all that, if they ever got in the same area I'd have one less mini. Toto was squeeling so much today I even looked to make sure he was a HE.

Yep..he is.