Business Logo's

[Sherry]

We are hoping to start our own business very soon and will need a logo. I have only tried one other time to obtain a logo and it was basically a disaster. Short version....instructed the company my desires on what the logo should look like (it was suppose to be a horse's head) told them I did not want anything comical looking and showed them a picture out of the miniature horse world on what I was looking for. I believe if I remember correctly I got 3 versions for $40.00 and then you just pic out the version you like the best. Two of the versions came back with a comical funny grin horse and the other one clearly looked like he had no experience drawing horses. After much going back and forth for a couple of weeks I just called it a "learning lesson" on my part and had business cards made with no logo. Fast forward to now.....I basically know what I am looking for but it is in my head and I will not be able to find anything remotely like what I want to show as a example. It will be very hard for me to convey what I need done. I work best with being able to actually see the logo and tweek it from there. It seems like companies back then only wanted to give you 1-3 samples upfront and then you can choose from there but if they had to revise it it cost additional $ each time.

Sooooo do you guys know if I can have someone draw something 900 times (LOL!!) till it is right and then pay a set amount? I am afraid I want be able to convey what I want without going back and forth causing me a fortune. Trust me I do not think I will be able to remotely find what I am looking for as a example but I will try to serve it up the first time as detailed as possible but any other ideas??

 

[susanne]

You get what you pay for.

You pay very little, you get very little. This is as true of the marketing world as it is with buying horses.

$40 pays for less than an hour of most professional designers of any experience. Specialists in corporate identity charge much, much more than that, ranging from $1000 for a small, local company to $10,000 and up for multi-national corporations.

The exception is when you can find a student or someone just starting out who is looking to build a portfolio -- one famous example is the Nike swoosh: Phil Knight got a Portland State design student to design it for $20. He was lucky and just a bit unethical.

A professional, knowledgeable designer who approaches your project from a strategic marketing basis (i.e., designs an identity that actual serves to promote your business, as opposed to pretty pictures) is going to charge more than $40.

Granted, farms are not huge corporations and farm logos don't generally command the huge sums -- their purposes are quite different than that of, say, IBM. You have to ask yourself what it is you want and what you expect to get from it. If you're not looking for your logo to actually WORK, then you needn't spend the money.

To continue the horse analogy, you can buy a pasture pet for very little, but if you want the next Buckeroo, you have to pay for it. There is a enormous range in between, but you pay accordingly.

As for your question re: tweaking your design over and over...it all depends. Certainly not for $40!!! If you and I had a contract to design a logo for a realistic rate, then I would work and rework it until you were satisfied -- but trust me, I don't do this for $40! Consider the time put in, not only the actual creative work, but discussing this with you, etc.

If you are merely looking to have YOUR idea drawn up, then you are paying NOT for design work, but for a draftsperson, and yes -- they will charge strictly by the hour and for each change you request. If you are clear up front (not "I'll know it when I see it"), then your total bill will be quite reasonable. It is unfair to expect them to read your mind and then not get paid for it!

 

[Marty]

Janine at Trinity Acres did mine. She was great. I told her exactly what I had in mind but just wasn't sure how she would capture it so I mostly told her what I did not want. I told her I wanted a prancing horse that was not a carousel type horse, that was kind of modern, but not too too too modern, yadda yadda yadda and she is so talented she was able to created just what I wanted. I had so much trouble describing it but she used her talents and came up with one that was perfect for me. Its copyrighted and no one can take it and I did end up putting it all over the place on all my stuff. I really love it.

 

[Sherry]

Thanks for the responses. This next logo will be for my business so it will not be horse related at all (if there is such a thing

). I don't mind paying a fair price I just wanted to see what the basics were currently. Marty can you tell me how you went about getting it copyrighted and was it expensive? Trying to find someone that will have enough artistic talent to really make it look professional and exactly what I want that has enough vision to figure out what I am talking about incase I can't put it into words. Here is a example of me in a nutshell: I could not walk into a house with 4 walls and design that room "just the way I wanted it" have no vision for that stuff....but could watch Extreme Home Makeovers every week & go yes I want that one or no don't like that one....here's my favorite....no color/style all wrong etc....then it would give the designer a idea/concept of what I like so that is where I am at to try to weed thru the millions of people that can do logo's to find that patient person who can "visualize" for me.

Anybody out there know of any gun/logo drawers that have vision and patience. LOL!!

 

[susanne]

Sherry,

What you are describing is how things really should work -- the most important part of logo/identity design is the discussion and research undertaken before any work is begun.

My guess is that the person you worked with previously spent very little time getting to know you, your needs, your tastes, your business, your competitors, your industry, etc., etc.

Have you written up a marketing strategy as part of your business plan? Your logo should come out of that marketing strategy, representing graphically that which you put into words. All aspects of marketing are expensive, but when these elements work together, the end result is a bargain.

 

[Sherry]

Thanks Susanne for the advice. I used the first logo experience as a illustration to make my point but I understand there is a world of difference between what I wanted back then and what I want now. It was a 5 min conversation where I basically showed him a pic out of the MHW magazine and asked if he could draw that on my business cards and I didn't want anything comical. 3 versions for $40.00 and yes two of them were with the horse grinning in a cartoon character style so my opinion on that is he wasn't listening as I know I could have not made myself any clearer. The third horse was the artist attempt at drawing a horse in more of a show stance like I wanted but seriously appeared like it was the first time he tried to draw a horse. For what I needed it for one show stance pic inserted on business cards (10 years ago I believe) I felt like that was a fair price. Also I did go to a reputable chain store so didn't just pick any self proclaimed artist. So just wanted to clarify I realize I am totally talking about a "business concept" now and how it would help promote my business which is why I don't want to make a costly mistake BUT I can't help that I am not articulate in that area. I don't expect them to read my mind but I understand my weaknesses and explaining something with words for a logo to get my entire point across is probably going to be hard for me to convey hence the revisions. I just do better visually so I understand I am "handicapped" in that area I have to describe it as best as I can trying to remember to cover all the basis and hope they have the vision to help me along or prompt me with their questions to get at the heart of the matter. I totally get your concept so how do I go about finding that type of person short of googling and picking from totally strangers. Any advice on questions to ask to narrow it down? This is over a half a million dollar project of which I have been approved for so it is not like the bank doesn't have what they think it takes for hubby and I to run it but that doesn't make us guru's on logo's as it will truly be a important part of the business in one way but somewhat irrelevant overall. In other words for the type of business it will be most people will think the logo was a great concept that matched with the overall theme of the business but it is not the type of business that will be global such as company that you could nationally link their logo to the company just off their logo design alone. What would benefit me the most is ideas/advice on what to ask to determine if that individual/business can have that vision or help me pull it out of my head. I could go to a house designer and ask to see their portfolio and if the houses were all contempary or modern I would say thank you and move on to the next one till I saw they had a style (country) that I like then I could build from there by showing her the type of houses I like and the pics of rooms that I would love to have (so see visual) and they would have a good foundation to go from there and I bet I would like it. How do I take that concept and transfer it to the logo world when I don't know if the artist can even draw a decent gun and then build up to the overall professional look if I am not the best with explaining the details. Maybe I should just take you with me

??

 

[susanne]

Sherry,

It's completely understandable that you would feel out of your element in this...after all, your background is in your own field of specialty, not design and marketing!

Ideally, you would find a graphic designer specializing in logo and identity design who also has some background or at least an interest in guns, and/or who is a skilled enough technical illustrator to be deliver what you need.

I would begin with a Google search for graphic design, logo design and identity design in your area. (While you can certainly work online with somebody, I think you might be more comfortable meeting face-to-face, at least to begin.) You will find freelancer and independent designers, design firms, and advertising agencies -- all are good, although the firms and agencies will typically charge much more. Your search may also turn up online directories, and this can also be a good place to look.

Look at their portfolios, checking their style of work, type of client, and the quality and appeal of their work. Granted, each project is different, and what they would do for you would again be different, but each designer will have a particular style, and if it's not right for you, then move on.

You can also ask local printers (at least the bigger ones) who they would recommend, keeping in mind that they may have an in-house designer who may or may not be very good -- ask to see their portfolio and ask for references.

Check are local colleges with graphic design programs. Also be sure to check with other people in your business or related lines of work.

Not all logos involve illustration, but if that's what you think yours needs, make certain that the logos presented show their ability and an illustration style that would be appropriate to your subject.

When you find someone whose work you like, call them to talk. Unless they say they are working on a deadline, which can make the most personable designer anxious and rushed, they should be willing to talk with you and ask a lot of questions about you and your business.

Ask for referrals, including clients and printers.

By the nature of their work, logo/identity designers do a great deal of their work with business startups and those new to the design and marketing world. Getting "inside your head" is the most important part of their job. I always give new identity clients a questionnaire...some of the questions may seem irrelevant or even silly, but the more the designer knows about you, the better.

Begin collecting logos that appeal to you, whether in your area of business or not. Definitely collect logos, business cards, ads, etc. from competitors or related business.

Your ideal designer should be intrigued by your business and interested in you. Yes, they may be busy, but the right designer will want your business and will want to learn all that they can. They should also be patient with you and willing to help you avoid any pitfalls along the way.

I'm just skimming the surface here, but I hope I've given you a bit of a head start. Let me know if you have more questions.

Good luck!

susanne