Bold horse that's gotten spooky

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I have a gelding that I am particularly attached to, I have owned him since he was a weanling and he has always been bold and brave. I had him gelded as a 5 year old and started him in harness last year. I have driven him probably 15 or 20 times this year with no issues and felt good about where he was at in his training. Still I felt I may have left a few things out when I started him so I backed up to do some work to confirm he had all the basics. You can read about that in the driving forum under "Watch for those holes in training- a cautionary tale" but to make it short - he did well until he didn't, he exploded unexpectedly. Now for the point of all this, in working with him to desensitize and get him back to feeling confidant about things following him I have come to realize that he is not himself lately. He is spooky about all manner of things. I have always played with dropping my jackets over my horses - heads, tails and everything in between- but now just tossing it over my own shoulder causes him to spook. Drop it on the ground he blows and snorts and will not go near it. On his back - he bolts, bucking and squealing like it will be the end of him. I have seen him react to logs that have lain in his pasture for years, trees that sway in a breeze and tarps. Then the next minute I can lead him past or over it and he acts like it is nothing - as he used to. He is NOT playing but truly over come by a fit of terror. I've tried to check if it affects one side more than the other or if it seems to be his eyes but can't see any clues there. Might be sound related as he is better when background noise muffles rustlings etc. close at hand. What has me confused tho is that he was not ever like this in the past. So... anyone got any ideas? Please just throw them out there. I am willing to consider most any possibilities at this point. I'd like my buddy back.

 

[Margo_C-T]

The only thing I can think of would be to have his vision throughly evaluated and possibly some neurological testing (not sure what or if, that can be done in horses?) Sure sorry your horse is having this sort of issue....:-(

 

[BSharpRanch]

Is he ever in a large pasture or turnout where a dog or other animal could have chased him without your knowledge?

O he may possibly have ulcer, they can cause unusual pain that may be visually or mentally transfered to being caused by something else.

 

[lkblazin]

I am not a vet but just as Margo ct said it could be vision or neurological. I would suggest calling the vet out. One way to check for vision is to use a flash light. Put it up to each eye and see if he has any sensitivity. Then make sure both eyes are contracting and dilating. Also look very closely at each eye. Make sure that you look at them from several different angles to see if there are any marks or abrasions. But your best bet on figuring out what's going on is calling the vet out. My uncle is a vet and he says the first step he would take is the flash light. I hope he gets better soon

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I did consider vision as a possible cause but there are no physical changes to his eyes that we can find. I'm thinking not neurological since there is no head tilt nor other signs but that may be my wishful thinking so I'll keep that one in mind for future investigation. Ulcer..hmmm, worth checking and has made me think about diet. I have dropped one of the components (ration balancer pellets - vit/min mixture) of his usual diet in favour of more time on pasture. I wonder if being low or high on a particular vitamin or mineral could create this effect. Thanks for the ideas everyone, please keep them coming. He is kept in a large dry lot where he could be harassed by dogs but none of the other horses have changed there behaviour. I will note tho that he does have the most curious/dominant nature (not boss horse just quickest to chase a dog out of the pen or investigate anything new)so would be likely to interact first/most with anything entering the pen. Perhaps a move back to his winter pen would be worth a try.

Oh and be assured that I have spoken to the vet about this but she believes it to be entirely behavioural and has offered no treatment, I'm trying to come up with more ideas before I call her back.

 

[lkblazin]

Hmm you said he's on pasture more. Have you noticed any weeds or strange plants out there? There are many different plants that are toxic to horses. They all have different effects. And not all horses know not to eat them. Such as walnut trees, they can sometimes cause a red bag( preva placenta). And wow your vet doesn't sound all that alarmed....I would ask her about poisonous plants in your area. Can you give a rough guesstimate as of how long he has been different? Days, weeks, months.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

If it is something pain related, you might give him a dose of banamine and see if the behavior changes. Good idea to notice if it is one side or the other.

A tooth issue might be the culprit, if he has some sharp points in the back.

Don't they just drive us crazy sometimes!

 

[paintponylvr]

Any new "weeds" growing in your pasture? I had one that had that type of reaction to a new clover - which she also quickly learned to hunt for and she would "guard" her little patch. Turned out it wasn't clover but "Loco Weed" - which not only is addicting for some horses but causes a wide variety of symptoms of illness or personality changes... Once upon a time, quite a few different personality differences were noticed in horses with access to loco weed.

I would think that the change in vit/min supplement also may have changed him. Something to think about? Let us know what you discover!

 

[prairie ponies]

I had a mare get more sensitive and unpredictable in the early stages of EPM. This was years ago and I believe the prognosis is better now?

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Could there just be more holes in his training?

I bombproof 100% of the time I am training - once a year we even set up an extreme obstacle course and cram it full of horses just to work on group/intense obstacle work. The 5th time my colt was ever hitched you can bet what we did - an easy obstacle course, over tarps, around cones, etc. to build up some confidence. Could his explosions have just wrecked his confidence?

I would stop all 'skill training' and just hardcore bombproof train for a good 3 to 4 mos. Every time I find myself asking WHY ARE YOU BEING A DUMB HORSE? UGH!!! YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS! I step back, do a confidence booster exercise, and commence training again. 9 times out of 10 it works, and that 1 time out of 10 it didn't its because I didn't spend enough time doing the confidence boost! Set him up to win - make it so he possibly cannot fail in the beginning. You touched it even though its something you aren't even that afraid of? YAY GOOD BOY! You got kinda sorta near it and didn't run me completely over even though you're terrified? YAY GOOD BOY! Then build from there. Over reward, make it fun, let him get some confidence before you expect him to fall back into routine. Build his confidence in you, build your confidence in him not to have freak outs.

Not once have I ever said ' I wish I didn't spend so much time de-spooking.' I have said 'gee I wish i worked him more on that before moving on!' about a thousand though! Take it slow, build up his ego!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Ahhhhh!!!!! I just typed a long response to everyone and the computer tossed it into no where land!

I have to run but I'll come back and respond to everyone as soon as I can.

 

[Max's Mom]

Do you have Lyme disease in British Columbia? Our horse exhibited very similar dramatic changes of behavior and hypersensitivity and it turned out to be Lyme. Now, three years later, the hypersensitivity came back and he again tested positive and is being treated. Sadly, his personality has changed from this, and over the past few years since getting Lyme he is much more reactive than he was. Now that we tested again I think that maybe he's been dealing with it all along. Anyway, if you have it in your area, you might want to look into it.

 

[shorthorsemom]

Have you ever considered chiropractic exam and possibly acupuncture therapy? I had a friend with a biggie horse that used to explode into bucks and then next minute was fine.. they trained and trained and finally got him an exam by a local holistic vet. He had a pinched nerve and once adjusted and treated, he never bucked or spooked again. Lots of horses that change like that have some sort of pain behind the reason. just a thought. Hope you figure it out.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

A recent experience with a horse owner near me: his horse was colicking. They gave him banamine and he did pass a pile, so they knew there was no twist in the gut. He hung over the water but wouldn't drink, and, always the timid one, turned fierce to the horse that was always the herd boss, kicking out and biting. Owner took him to the vet, as he was alarmed it might be rabies since the horse's behavior was so strange. The vet oiled him and continued treating for colic and the horse returned to his old self.

I dont' know if ulcers were addressed by the vet, but obviously there was a pain issue.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

OK, finally back. Some developments to share. First I'll try to cover the suggestions offered (thanks everyone for taking the time and letting me pick your brains for ideas

) First - weeds- we've had unusual weather this summer so it was a possibility. I took a walk about and studied the growing things in their pastures but there doesn't seem to be anything new there. It is possible of course that growing under stress changes the components of something but I have not heard of anyone else in the area experiencing anything unusual in their horses so I'm satisfied that its probably not something he's eating (I won't rule that out entirely just yet tho) Teeth, he was floated this spring but I did get a dentist to have a quick peek, nothing of note there. EPM, not a concern in this area as far as I've ever heard. Same with Lyme disease altho that could be changing along with our climate so again, not ruling that out entirely, no other symptoms tho that I have noticed. Chiro, well that one never hurts to have looked at, I have to wait until my practitioner cycles back this way but I will get that looked at. Holes... well that is pretty much my vets response and I have certainly not quit working at it as tho that is the problem but my gut is telling me it is something more. Now for whats been changed;

started him on his ration balancer again this week, no changes yet. I have moved them to a different night pasture in case it is dogs/coyotes/whatever, because he is the only one who's gotten jumpy I had ruled that out but when I thought about it more I realized he is usually the one inclined to investigate new things and will chase things (dogs for example) away from the herd (top man there tho not top horse - that is a mare). That means he's also the one most likely to be terrorized while trying to keep every one else safe. The problem continues in that he will startle from anything he wasn't expecting, shirt or jacket dropped can lead to a bolt or at the least a large spook BUT... he no longer thinks the tire that started this line of questioning is going to eat him. So he can still learn that he is safe in a given situation but if it is something new/unexpected (even if he has been exposed all his life -eg. his blanket draped over him was considered a terror worthy of a bucking fit) it is still a problem.

I think I covered everyones ideas, again thank you for helping me kick my brain in gear. Hopefully one of the small changes will help. I'll keep you up to date.

 

[chandab]

I know it might be a strange symptom, but perhaps try a round of ulcer meds, just OTC meds such as U-Gard or whatever brand is available to you in BC. One of my stallions is a bit flighty, has been since I got him, so just for curiousity I've put him on some U-Gard pellets, he seems a bit more tractable (could be just that he's maturing, but it might be the U-Gard, and it's cheap enough, it's not hurting anything to have him on it).

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Okay, I have an update on this that I never expected.

As I said previously the idea he was being harassed seemed somewhat possible so I moved them back to their winter pasture for night time (closer to the house) and also started him back on the ration balancer they are usually fed. I have noticed by late Saturday a marked improvement in him and was thinking it must be one of these things that helped...but.... Whoever mentioned weeds...I looked and found nothing unusual growing in the pasture.... After they had been off of it for a couple of days I went out again and thinking he might give me a clue if I took him alone to that pasture and watched his reactions in different areas (was a dog coming in at a certain spot etc) I took him along and turned him loose while I looked around. I really never noted anything at first but then I realized he was hurrying from one spot to another while he ate. When I went to see what he was up to I noticed some small mushrooms (toad stools as we call the non edible ones) He saw them too and rushed to gobble them down. I caught him and took him back to the rest of the herd. His head was high, breathing short and tight, eyes wide... I'm almost positive this is my answer. They aren't anything I recall having seen before. Our extreme summer and then sudden temperature change is perhaps the reason they grew this year, or ??? I don't know if he has always eaten everything there was so I missed them in the past or if it was just that they were so small I ignored them. I should have considered any mushroom growth when I was looking for weeds tho, when I was a child we had a mare who would charge off the trail no matter how firmly you insisted she stay on it if she spotted a certain red and white mushroom (also not edible for us) We learned to accept this quirk and always thought she must get some pleasurable feeling from something in them. I have no idea why this gelding wants to eat something that makes him feel like he is about to be eaten tho... gads horses are as crazy as humans sometimes. I haven't seen these particular mushrooms in the smaller pasture, just the one I have used this summer, and it turns out, in my grass arena. So I will be doing a sweep of both. I am going to try strong vinegar solution sprayed on them to see if the acid keeps them away, not sure what else to use, I've never needed to kill off mushrooms before. I am going to put them in the small pasture and I will be watching to see if he settles down again with no magic 'shrooms in his diet.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

How crazy is that?! Sounds like you've solved the mystery. You are a good horse sleuth!

I had a horse one time that would do anything for the purple blossom on a Canadian Thistle. Never knew another horse that would even touch them.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

LOL, gee I could use a horse like that. Stupid Hiways dept. had thistle seed in the grass mix they seeded into the ditches (or at least thats the popular belief) and we are always fighting that horrible weed.