Blue eyes - always overo?

[sweetheart]

hi!

Just a quick question on the genetics of blue eyes: are blue eyes only associated with overo genes? I know they can be associated with either splash or frame, but just wondered can a horse have blue eyes and no overo genetics?

Thanks!

 

[chandab]

Well, if they are double dilute (cremello, perlino, smokey cream), they can have blue eyes without overo breeding. Other than that instance, I dont know.

 

[bitsy]

I've had many tobianos with blue eyes that had no overo breeding. Normally it's the ones with a lot of white. It is one characteristic of overo but many horses have blue eyes without the overo genes.

 

[crponies]

There are some lines of horses that exhibit blue eyes apart from frame or splash according to this page: Equine Color - Sabino However, in most horses it would indicate splash or frame. Most "tobiano" horses actually do have one of the overo genes as well; it simply isn't recognized because it is often minimally displayed.

 

[Dona]

I agree.....many Tobianos can and DO carry an overo gene that just isn't recognized. The "Tobianos" with blue eyes, are most likely carrying an overo gene.

:

 

[sweetheart]

Thanks everybody!

Have a great weekend!

~Allisa

 

[CJMM6]

: What about blue eyed appy's??? I know of some appy's that have no pinto what so ever in their pedigree. but they have blue eyes & throw blue eyes on their foals. JMO, I think blue eyes are most common on multi colored horses , including minimal overos and appys.

:

For instance, Morgans are all solid colored and they seldom have blue eyes. Same with Quarter Horses and Arabians. Not wanting to start a battle,

: just my thoughts, cjmm

 

[rabbitsfizz]

In point of fact most Appies do have pinto breeding in them- very, very few horses have no pinto at all- if you are going to count Sabino as pinto, that is!!!

So, usually blue eyes will mean Splash in minimal- sometimes it will mean Frame in minimal- testing for LWO is recommended for all blue eyed horses before breeding.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Have to differ here..........I've read several studies where they now believe blue eyes are a separate gene. If not, just a thot here, how do you explain them in PEOPLE? Or dogs? Or cats? And they're not pintos. (Altho Ursa is a pintaloosa dog! but no blue eyes on her)

We have a blue-eyed near leopard & have his pedigree for generations.............no pinto recorded (I know colors can be faulty on records). According to The Appaloosa Project, it might indicate some sabino may be way back there somewhere, but please, folks, don't get the impression blue eyes means you have a pinto horse. This boy is all appy.

I have to say, it bothers me when some people immediately think "pinto" when they see a blue-eyed horse. Let's say, I'm not expecting any pintos from this guy! And OT, the same thing is true about white markings. (BIG misconception these days that ANY white marking indicates you've got a pinto or pinto-bred horse)

His first foal is due any day, so we'll see if the blues carry in this case. Anyone have thots on the other species blue eyes? I thot twice about posting this. I had to weigh whether I'm in the mood for an argument this morning! Oh well, it's raining. I've got a mare on camera showing signs. What else do I have to do???

:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

What you have to understand is that not many people would record a horse with a blaze, snip and blue eyes as a Pinto- would you??

Therefore it is more than possible for minimal Splash, for example, to have carried down through quiet a few generations and, because it was being encouraged to suppress by being bred to mares with little or no white, it would do so. Try breeding a "no Pinto "Appy with blue eyes to a Pintaloosa mare with known pattern or a Pinto mare with known pattern and see how many other patterns turn up.

Since there is only a test for LWO at the moment it is not possible to say that the horse does not carry Pinto, any more than it is possible to say he definitely does.

My guess would be that he does, in fact, carry minimal Splash.

I have never known of blue eyes turning up in a horse that has no pinto, proven.

I have known of blue eyes turning up as a surprise to everyone!!

Mostly they arrive via a white blaze or snip, and can be attributed to Splash quite safely.

Occasionally they are the only indication of Splash that is visible.

 

[kaykay]

wee horse i cant see his whole face but it does look like he has a white snip or blaze. This would indicate splash leading to blue eyes. Like rabbit said its very rare to have an appy with no pinto in the background. Appy breeders in the big horse sector would never mix up pinto and appy like we do in the miniatures.

 

[stormy]

Actually I have quite a few blue eyed horses with no pinto in their background at all. Blue eyes are recessive, that is why in full size horses the are so rare but in minis, with all the inbreeding, they can be on any color horse solid or pinto.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As said I have not seen a blue eyed horse that is proven to have no pinto in it's lineage- so, Stormy, which blue eyed horse do you know of, since they apparently are so common?

And most big Appies have Sabino- they use it to help express the pattern. Whilst this does not actually help the blue eyes theory, we all know how easy it is to mistake minimal Splash for Sabino when it is expressed as "normal" white markings.

 

[stormy]

About a third of my horses have at least one blue or partial blue eye, I have about 80 horses and very very few pintos...how many names do you want!?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I was thinking more of the fact that you seemed so sure of the fact that they had no Pinto breeding at all- so I am presuming they are all solid coloured, no white socks, no blazes, no snips on noses etc. Since I have never heard of anyone breeding specifically for truly solid coloured horses before this intrigued me!!

So are they all related, as the percentage of blue eyes in solid horses is way beyond any average??

 

[stormy]

They are not all related but some are and yes the blue eyed stallions often sire blue eyed foals though not always on the same side, I mean the stallion with a right eye blue may sire a foal with the left eye blue. I have many with no white.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

That is very interesting but I am not convinced, as I do not know the breeding nor have I seen the horses concerned.

I am not saying anymore than I think you are mistaken, although it is obvious that blue eyes must be able to occur spontaneously, they rarely IME do so, and I have only ever known one Mini ,a Black mare, visually solid, with no face marking and related to my old stallion, who had it. She passed a half blue eye one only, on to her filly, but the filly also had a white face marking that did not come from her sire - so that, to me, explains where the blue eye came from.

Statistically I do not believe anymore truly solid Minis have blue eyes than any other horse, especially when you take into account the fact that many pinto minis and other breeds are misidentified as "solid"