big news in healthcare

[Danielle_E.]

Here is the origin of that quote

And I will go on criticising Socialism, and opposing Socialism because it is bad for Britain—and Britain and Socialism are not the same thing. (...) It’s the Labour Government that have brought us record peace-time taxation. They’ve got the usual Socialist disease—they’ve run out of other people’s money.”
By the early 2000s, this statement was paraphrased: “The trouble/problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” In 2008-2009, many Americans were worried that Barack Obama would add socialist programs as president of the United States. The Thatcher quotation (slightly incorrect) was printed on T-shirts.

Google Books provides some evidence (not yet verified) that “Socialism inevitably runs out of other people’s money” was said in a Parliamentary debate in 1944.

As Britain does have universal health care I was curious as to what she was addressing when those words were said. I don't anyone wants to live in a total socialist environment and one of the reasons that the NDP in Canada will nore than likely never, in this day and age, form a Canadian government. There is a fine balance though in providing basic programs when needed and with 48 million U.S. residents who have no health insurance.....

 

[Bess Kelly]

I have a question for ELSA.......

Do not know you, so please understand this is in no way a personal affront or attack or such. You have bars that indicate you are relatively new on LB (glad to have you) and I have noticed that you seem to post with direction at insurance, health care issues. While you may have posted regarding minis or other animals, I have not noticed that.

You seem well versed and deeply involved in "health care", it's current, proposed and hoped for status, as well as the insurance company involvement, so I'm wondering what your background and connection to this element would be. Would you elaborate?

By the way, we have just about evey level of involvement to "life" within our membership from those who are retired to the workaholics, college superachievers to still in high school, licensed professionals (retired & active), in almost every walk of life, etc. I'm hoping you will share your own expertise with all.........and thank you for that.........curiosity abounds.

 

[Elsa]

I have a question for ELSA.......You seem well versed and deeply involved in "health care", it's current, proposed and hoped for status, as well as the insurance company involvement, so I'm wondering what your background and connection to this element would be. Would you elaborate?

I work at a hospital on the insurance/billing side and am currently working on my Masters in Public Health, aimed at policy and administration. My future goal is to obtain a nursing home administration license. I work with insurance companies to some extent, and moreso indirectly with patients through bills, financial forms etc.

I have a deep personal interest in health care and would like to believe I can see both sides, from a hospital business perspective and also as a consumer, beings as how my family (like many others) are plagued with numerous conditions.

I like reading the miniature forum, but don't have much to contribute. I'm somewhat ignorant to the miniature horse world and have always dealt with arabians and warmbloods. I currently have two arabians and a warmblood gelding

 

[Bess Kelly]

Miniatures are not mandatory, just addictive! Many still have the full sized, and many more once had them (I'm in that group).

Ahhhh, the billing section.......the one person who sees "the good, bad & ugly" from all sides!! I do appreciate your sharing some of the standards and requirements that the insurance companies place upon us and am certain that the forum family does also. We all have hope for a better situation but, it is a long way off. Personally I would applaud more preventive care in the hope that this would result in less costly future expense. We all know that nutrition is a major factor in today's world -- not just food to eat BUT proper selection for good health and weight maintenance. WOW, the drugs that could be eliminated for many would shake the industry big time! Time to jump on off of this soapbox.

Please keep sharing your expertise and thanks for doing so.

So, feel free to jump in on some of the horse threads. Minis have some issues the big ones don't but many more that they do. Besides, most of our minis don't know (or wouldn't believe) they aren't 16HH.

A positive....if they step on your foot you are more likely to get a bruise than a break

AND they eat less.

 

[LowriseMinis]

I just got my union magazine yesterday, and there's a slightly relevant article. Any emphasis or bolding is mine.

California is home to almost 10 million children, or one-eighth of all Americans under the age of 18. Because of its sheer size and diversity, California plays a crucial role in setting the national agenda for all children to succeed.
A new study released by Children Now, a leading nonpartisan, nonprofit organization, shows the issues weakening California children’s well-being are also undermining the economic prosperity of the state as a whole. The 2009 California Report Card: Setting the Agenda for Children shows that the current deficiencies in children’s health and education policy are leading to significant, negative outcomes for all Californians. These include increased healthcare costs and decreased economic output. For example:

* One million children in California are expected to be without health insurance

It costs Californians $7,000 every time an uninsured child visits a hospital for a preventable ailment. In contrast, only 17 percent of that amount ($1,200) is needed to provide health coverage for each uninsured child.

* One in five (109,011) high school students in California dropped out in 2007

Every 120,000 high school dropouts costs the state approximately $46.4 billion in total economic losses.

* 16 percent of California's adolescents are overweight or obese

Medical expenses attributable to obesity cost Californians $7.7 billion each year, with $1.7 billion paid by Medicaid.

* Less than half (48%) of California’s 3- and 4-year-olds attend preschool

While 85 percent of brain development occurs before the age of four, less than nine percent of public investments in children’s education and development are spent on children, ages four and younger.

"Given the state's current fiscal crisis and poor long-term economic forecast, lawmakers must clearly articulate and substantiate an investment strategy now to right the ship," said Children Now President Ted Lempert. "By all measures, smart investments in children make the most sense and should come first. That’s also what voters have been asking for and promised for years."

The 2009 California Report Card: Setting the Agenda for Children is available for free online at: www.childrennow.org/reportcard.

On the opposite page it shows our state's report card. I'll post some of the health related ones.

Latino children are most likely to be uninsured (12%), while only 3 percent of African American children are uninsured.About 60 percent of California's uninsured children are eligible for MediCal or Healthy Families, while only 30 percent are enrolled in these programs.

One in three Americans report cutting back on medical care because of high costs. That's a 5% increase over last year.

One in seven children has never been to a dentist.

Emergency room visits due to asthma have increased 12% among uninsured children.

 

[Minimor]

Well..... I think the whole country is going to heck in a hand bag so to speak. I do NOT see anything good that is going to happen to this country any time soon. I personally think our new president will not help the matters any....I have independent insurance..... which is ONLY major medical and I do have a co-pay... basically this insurance lets me out of paying for my whole doctor bill there on the spot. I "tried" to get better insurance....but because of my thryoid problems and needing check up's and testing to make sure my nodules in my neck are not cancerous they will NOT accept me.... I qualified for the CHIP program that bluecross offers..... HOLLY COW!!!!!!!! That was UNBELIEVEABLEY expensieve!!!!!!!! About triple what my regular insurance is! There's NOOOOOOO way I could ever afford that! What's sad is that I still owee about $2000 from my Thryoid deal back in '07. And have not been able to test to see if my nodules are cancerous (I'm suppose to get tested every 6 months because I have SO many in my neck)....... but I can't afford a $4000 doctor bill ever 6 months!!!!! I will NEVER see the light of day if I did that!!!!!! I'm hoping to get that bill down and then will go get tested maybe this fall........?? OR next year in the spring..... Very frustrating!!!!

That's just not right, that you cannot get the testing you should have to ensure that there isn't a serious health problem (cancer!). Some people like to run down the Canadian healthcare system (in spite of the fact that they really know nothing about it and just assume that it is nothing good for anyone) but here in Canada you would not be in that predicament--you would be getting the testing you need. If you lived here you would be getting your tests every 6 months!

 

[minifancier]

We sure don't want to have a nationalized health care.

I had a knee replaced last summer. I had a CHOICE of either going to a regular hospital or a specialized Surgery Center.~! I choose the Surgery Center.

Could NOT have done that under government control over our health system.

I went in to make an appointment now it was not a necessary one as I had gone for years and years with bad knees. BUT I got the appointment for my knee surgery within 2-1/2 weeks of making the appointment with my Orthopedic surgeon~!

Could NOT have had it done that quickly either under control of some bureaucratic nightmare.~!

Also have the other knee "scoped" I got that done in 4 DAYS after seeing my doctor.

Sure as heck would not have been able to that something like that done that quickly in a antiquated system like Canada's or any other Country that has Socialistic health care.~!

And as far as CA is concerned get the Illegals OUT OF THE STATE and quit giving them FREE health care and CA would be much better off. In Fact Get the 20 Illegals out of this country and the entire country would be better off~!

 

[LowriseMinis]

Y'know, sometimes it's not the illegals...

Plus, having a national healthcare system would not FORCE you to use it. By all means, keep your own insurance. But some of us-a lot of us, actually-would like to have that option.

 

[tagalong]

Could NOT have had it done that quickly either under control of some bureaucratic nightmare.~!Also have the other knee "scoped" I got that done in 4 DAYS after seeing my doctor.

Sure as heck would not have been able to that something like that done that quickly in a antiquated system like Canada's or any other Country that has Socialistic health care.~!

minifancier - it is a complete myth that you always need to wait months and months under what you call "socialistic" health care. It all depends on where you are, the procedure that is needed, the available doctors etc. Some people in Canada wait a long time for some procedures - some get things attended to right away. The same thing happens here. A friend here is STILL waiting to get her knee replacement done, 8 months after the original diagnosis. Such stories occur on both sides of the border.

My friend up in Edmonton, Alberta (where they now pay NO premiums for health care) had lumps in her throat. She went in to get them checked out - and the next day was in the university hospital getting biopsies and then surgery done. My mom lives in a small town in B.C. - the nearest "big" city is an hour and a half away - they have the only MRI for hundreds of miles.... the nearest REAL city is 4 hours away through the mountain pass. So she has had to wait quite a while for some procedures - yet when something was found to be potentially troublesome - she was able to get in sooner. My stepfather had heart trouble - and had to be airlifted from the small local hospital over the mountains to the big city hospital that had the cardiac expert who could help him. The only delay was waiting for the weather to improve enough to let the helicopter fly.

Like Lowrise and others here - I do not go get things checked out. I can't. Not a chance. I have to hope that whatever is wrong - is nothing. Or will "go away". I do have health insurance but it does not cover a lot and is mainly in the event of an accident/trauma. As it is, the nest egg I moved here with is GONE. Eaten up by medical bills for extensive skin cancer treatments that will never end. Ever. If I was still in Canada all those years of paying premiums (that were much less than the premiums I pay for the poor coverage I have now) would have paid off... and I would have been able to get treatment - without losing that entire nest egg.

Antiquated system? I don't think so. I have danced the dance on both sides of the issue.... and seen the problem from both sides. If you can afford extensive health care here, you'll be fine. The rest of us... not so much. There must be a balance between the two systems that would work here - without the protests of Socialism!! that the pundits like to toss around.... and that are often inaccurate. It is just terminology that is guaranteed to rile people up and play to their fears... and it is often used to do exactly that.

 

[Jill]

While no one will be forced to accept public health care, who will be forced to pay for it? I can tell you, I won't work nearly as hard when my money becomes our money

Also, my own health insurances is PLENTY expensive but you know what? The premium doesn't magically fall from the sky each month. I work hard for it and everything else. Can't say I'd be thrilled to help cover someone else's personal responsbility so that they can spend their own money on an extreme luxury like having a horse.

 

[tagalong]

I work hard for it and everything else.

Amazingly enough, Jill - so do I. Imagine that.

 

[LowriseMinis]

I can tell you, I won't work nearly as hard when my money becomes our money

That's fine. The nation won't miss your tiny contribution, but you'll certainly miss your extra income. Really, are you so opposed to helping your fellow citizen that you'd take a sizable pay cut just to screw with the system?

Plus, your money is already our money. Do you pay taxes on anything ever? That money goes to pave roads you never drive on and pay for services you never use. Do you pay into Social Security? State disability?

 

[LowriseMinis]

I work hard for it and everything else.

Amazingly enough, Jill - so do I. Imagine that.

Stop spreading your filthy lies, Tag. You know none of us liberals actually WORK, we just mooch off of the system.

 

[Jill]

It's all about choices. I choose to cover my health insurance and then because there's money left over, have some of the luxuries in life like horses.

 

[LowriseMinis]

Which is great. For the small amount I spend on my one horse monthly I couldn't afford healthcare for myself. So, I could be horseless and have about an extra $80 a month and no health insurance, OR I could have back the horse I regretted selling years ago and no health insurance. I think I made the right choice.

Can you remind me what your insurance is per month, Jill? Does it include family or anyone else, or just you?

 

[Jill]

Why would you want me to remind you what my health insurance costs or what it covers? Would you also like to know my medical history? You know, insurance underwriting is a lucrative profession!

To use your own personal horse cost figure, if you were me you could afford to have almost 9.5 horses rather than cover your own (individual) health insurance.

You know, some people trade food stamps for wine. I see a parallel even if you may not. Like I said, it's about choices and what you expect out of yourself vs. what you expect as a handout from others.

But then I've been paying for "IT" for me since I was 18. I've been on my own since I was old enough to be and working my butt off to have what I do.

The single biggest reason I am a Republican is because of my strong feelings about personal responsibility.

 

[tagalong]

But then I've been paying for "IT" for me since I was 18. I've been on my own since I was old enough to be and working my butt off to have what I do.

Same here, Jill... same here. I guess I was raised right as well. Take responsibiity for your own actions etc. And I have always believed that and practiced it. Such practices are not just the private domain of the self-congratulatory right-wingers - as they would have you believe. But sometimes, things come up that smack you in the face through no fault of your own - and you watch your savings evaporate into the medical system - even with as much insurance as you can afford...

 

[LowriseMinis]

I'm trying to find the right way for me to respond to this. I would happily share my medical history with you to help you get a better picture, because even with as young as I am there's a lot of it. There's a lot of preventative care I'm not getting because I can't afford to. But I get the very distinct impression that my situation-which is shared by MILLIONS of your fellow Americans-will not matter to you.

I will say this: when someone shows up in an emergency room and can't pay for it, who does? Is it cheaper and more effective to provide preventative care, or let people deteriorate to the point they find themselves seriously ill and then foot that bill? If money is the ONLY thing that matters, then look at it that way. Purely by cost. Which will cost you more? Which is a better use of your money?

 

[Jill]

Lowrise, so long as it still is my money, my choices aren't actually limited to your either / or proposal.

And, Lowrise, Hopefully you can refrain from declaring what you think are my own personal feelings ("But I get the very distinct impression that my situation-which is shared by MILLIONS of your fellow Americans-will not matter to you.") It would be a shame if your attempts to make what could otherwise be an open discussion personal got the thread closed

 

[LowriseMinis]

There have been plenty of assumptions on both our current political threads-and I'm certainly not the only one making them.

I'm asking honestly, and not just to you but to anyone: how much are you going to lose if we get nationalized health care? Do you know for sure if that cost is greater or less than the current burden of taking care of the uninsured? Is one way or the other better for our nation's productivity? Do you agree or disagree having a healthier populace is better for us as a country?

I get that you're against it, but I don't understand why. Unless it really is as simple as "THOSE PEOPLE-MY STUFF."