Best Ways to Advertise a Stallion? Requirements for mares?

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I have somewhat recently purchased my first miniature horse, a blue roan tobiano stallion originally from Buckeye Walnut Creek sired by FWF Little Wardance and out of a very nice blue roan overo broodmare. Its a very long story, but to sum it up, he has made an amazing transformation in the 6 mos I've had him. He's a stunner, with the personality and genetics to match

Never have i had an animal, sooooo trainable!

I have him registered 3 ways, PtHA, AMHR, and AMHA. I have only shown him twice, in PtHA, simply because he was a solid 100+lbs overweight when i purchased him, and was in desperate need of a foot trim. He has done reasonably well in very competitive classes, against many world champs. Taking his weight into consideration (his skin is wrinkly in spots he's lost so much, but still has A LOT to go!) as well as his feet, he has done FANTASTICALLY in halter!

Anyway, he is my first stallion. The handling, etc, I have down pat. I know how to actually breed him, paperwork, foaling, etc. I traded stallion service for board, and work in agriculture, including a lot of time in large animal reproduction, but i focus mostly on dairy cattle. However, my question is, where do I advertise him? I don't want to spend an arm and a leg, however, I work in agriculture and know it takes money to make money! What are some good websites that advertise stallion service? Would a facebook page be effective? I' ve heard mixed reviews about that. What about craigslist? I had a good experience selling my Arabian through there, however, I do not want to breed "just anybody who pays in cash."

Also, what are your stallions requirements? obviously the mare needs to be in good body conditon, up to date in foot care, recent vet records, neg culture, etc. But would it be too much to ask that all mares be in proper standing to produce registered offspring? At his former home, he was bred to unregistered mares, stallion report was never filed, etc, and never produced a registered foal, most of which turned into $100 craigslist babies, which to be frank was super sad because a lot were very colorful with good confortmation, and would've been worth at least 5x that if they couldve been bothered to file a breeding report, register him in their name, and register their mares! is it normal in industry to offer a discount on stallion service to serious show homes? What do you offer a discount for?

Thank you in advance for all your help!

 

[ohmt]

Have you thought about gelding him? Even show quality, registered horses can end up on craigs list for $100 these days and no stallion is ever too good to geld.

If you're set on keeping him intact though, I ask for clean culture, utd coggins and health, current on farrier, vaccinations, deworming, etc.

Mare MUST be registered-there are way too many minis being bred right now so only right to give the foals we are responsible for bringing into this world a fighting chance. I also ask for pictures/pedigree and what the owner wants out of the cross to make sure I think there's a chance at them getting it. if the mare is very poor quality or has any glaring faults I will hopefully see it to decline a breeding. A stallion can't fix everything.

Have an excellent and very thorough contract. It will be a big liability for you and your stallion will be in big danger when breeding. Some great stallions have become geldings that way. Make it worthwile for you and the mare owner too. Many people don't do outside breedings because of all the problems that can and will arise. I do though and have made wonderful friends, but measures do need to be taken

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I should have outlined this earlier. NO, he is NOT being gelded. I am a responsible breeder, and will always be. I am not in it to make money, however, a few hundred bucks here and there from stallion service is nice. Until either A) he becomes a jerk due to testosterone (probably not going to happen, but Im not a naive "my horsey will never ever hurt me or ever do anything evil!" kind of person or B) there is ZERO demand for him and he epically fails as a showhorse, which also, probably wont happen as i have had a couple people ask about him already for service, that have nice mares. I met them at a show. I want to be selective on the mares, hwoever, I want guidelines on jsut how selective to be. My mother's attitude is "breed anything with cash in hand." and that will not happen. As an agriculturalist, the fine line between profitable and ethical is one I have experience in dealing with, and I refuse to cross it. Even cost me a job once. Obviously, there will be a contract, and a very tight one at that. I would eventually like to get my own mares, and breed a little, but mostly show. However, that is a good 5 or 6 years in the future.

So I am not out of line for asking for decent conformation?

 

[disneyhorse]

Honestly when I stallion shop, I go to shows. Most people don't breed to outside stallions, they buy foals out of them. I think that may be your challenge, since most people can easily buy a mini stallion themselves or a foal is most economical.

So, I see what stallions are winning in the ring (plus they are all prettied up for me to see) or if they are retired from breeding, I'm seeing horses that are winning and asking about the breeding on them.

If you're looking to attract serious clients, then showing your guy may be the best way to get him out there as well as prove what he can do in the halter or performance ring.

If you're looking to attract mare owners looking to breed family pets, places like Craigslist is going to be where the non-showing people are going to look, since they most likely wont care as much about what is the most competitive quality.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I am looking more towards the showing end of it, as I belive he has real potential to do very well when he's in condition. As for the family pet, I am very undecided. I covered one mare, for the owner of the farm he is boarded at in exchange for board - a lovely little fallabella driving mare. however, the only reason I did that is i just abot guarantee he won't ever sell the foal ever. He doesn't run a big commercial stable, and wants a horse to put in a driving team with the mare, and he REALLY likes Cloudy(my stud.) Its a "dream cross" for him, being out of his 2 favorite lil ones!

That is really the only pet market i want to get into - a permanet home. Maybe if a 4H kid has a decent mare I would consider it too. I would be more inclined to point someone looking for a "cute lil baby" towards a rescue than breed their mare. He has given his fair share to the pet market already in my opinion. My only issue is there aren't a ton of AMHA or AMHR shows in my area. PtHA is quite popular however. I think we might just need to go out of state to show, however, that is a lot to do. I am a full time dairy herdsman and a full time student too (dairy herd management), so 4 or 5 days off to travel and show, as well as a spare 500 bucks to show can be difficult to do, however, I realize it is important to make him the "next little Wardance." However, he's only 6, I dont plan on selling him, we have lots of years to show, and travel to shows! No rush either on standing him. I plan on having him his entire life. So, thats eh, another 20 years to stand? But, how do i promote a lightly shown stallion?

 

[Lizzie]

I expect the first thing to decide upon, is what his stud fee will be. Next, you will need to absolutely know his strong points and faults. With his faults in mind, you won't be wanting to double up on them, with the mare. And it is hard to say the 'no' to someone who wishes to breed. Make sure that you have incredibly good fencing and insurance, for visiting mares.

I would make yourself a little website and show some very good pictures of him. Tell his age, colour, DNA colour results, pedigree (not just sire and dam) and what he might have done in the ring already. If you have pics of his best offspring, add them to your website. Make it clear whether or not you will crossbreed. Put on the website, the charges for stud fee and visiting mares.

Hopefully, since you think he's already been put to some iffy stock, it won't make those in the breed, think this is what he's always likely to produce. Unfortunately, many seem to place all blame on sires.

Personally, I wouldn't advertise him on CL. You'll likely get tons of people with iffy mares, wanting to breed to him and waste your time. Once you have a website, you can advertise him here or on a ton of classifieds on the net. You can also put ads in the papers locally.

I love the roans, but many do not. According to how flashy he is, you might not get the numbers wishing to breed, as for example, someone with a flashy, roan tobiano.

Of course, require all the usual things with mares for breeding. Up-to-date shots etc. and no shoes. Make sure your contract spells out everything, very carefully.

I have found, that many with Shetlands and Minis, do not use outside stallions, as much as those with full size horses. Probably because it is easier to keep one's own small stallion, than a large one. And of course, you will be competing with stallions who have sired some great foals already and have their own show record.

Good luck with your boy and please do let us see him.

Lizzie

 

[ohmt]

The key to asking about conformation of the mare is to also ask what the owner wants out of the cross. If they want a foal to show in halter but the mare is not quite there or you think might not cross well with your stallion, that's when you say "thank you very much for your interest, but I don't think this cross will produce what you want". Most people get that and if you know of a stallion the mare might cross better with, then they will really appreciate you. There are some who want a driving horse, something for the kids, etc. Then you can look for something else from the mare.

 

[MindyLee]

FROM A PERSON WANTING TO DO A OUTSIDE SERVICE VIEW...

Right now, I havent contacted the owner, but I am wanting to send one of my best mares out to her stallion. I do have 2 stallions of my own, BUT I want an outside line and color. Her stallion has sired nice foals, did show in the past, has wonderful bloodlines, nice conformation, height is perfect, Paperwork all in order, and color to boot! Ive watched this boy for years and now that he lives closer, I want to jump on it. I like everything about him and can tell that him and my mare should produce a nice "keeper" foal for me. If only I could order a filly from them! LOL

I know that there is all the P's and Q's to do before my mare goes, but heres also something to ask, What if the mare owner wants to leave a mare there more then 1 month? Most stud services only offer 1 month to the mares. My mare always needs 2 months with a boy (hand/pasture bred) before she takes. SO with that in mind, ya might want to think up with something about longer visiting mares too. Also wet mares as well.

And also the last thing, feed? Are you feeding the mares your feed, or the mare owners feed? I offer my feed, BUT sometimes ya dont want to disturb her feeding schedual and what she's on. So another thing to possibly add to your contract.

Insurance on any outside visiting mares and or foals. May want to inform any mare owners of maybe having that on thir horses as a percaution.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

thank you all so much!

As per the pictures -

this is 2 or 3 weeks after i bought him, turned out with his BFF ernie, a former stud himself! They were adorable. They would wait at the gate for each other.

http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/courtfurst/?action=view&current=422340_10150713338923969_746753968_11649896_1254132292_n.jpg

This is about 2 mos after I got him, first body clip half done! His neck isnt that thic i promise, i just hadnt clipped it yet!

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/courtfurst/419712_10150743412148969_746753968_11761267_1053916054_n.jpg

And on the wash rack, on a hot day.

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff477/courtfurst/Stockbridge-20120706-006791.jpg

 

[MindyLee]

He is a nice lookin boy!

Nice head, neck, foot, leg, hip.

 

[Jill]

I've got some words of advice.

First, when it comes to minis, everyone has their own stallion. Some are nice, many are not, but people like to use their own even if it's only because they think he's got a good personality (nearly all minis do) or because he's a neat color. It is not easy to stand even National Champions because so many mini people are not really informed HORSE people.

Second, so many horse people can be real PITA's to deal with, especially when you will be housing and caring for something they are emotionally attached to. I think you'd find it's far easier to deal with most mares than most owners.

Lastly, if anything isn't right with the foal, it will be the stallion's fault.

Personally, we've decided we simply don't want to deal iwth it. We have some outstanding boys and have produced some foals that have made us feel very pleased but since I do this because I enjoy it, I'm not going to ruin it by doing things that have such a potential to go south. Not even for a four figure stud fee. Simply not worth the stress.

 

[Minimor]

You say you are aware that you have to spend money to make money--but please don't count on making much money regardless of how much you spend on advertising and showing. If you've got a couple of mare owners interested in breeding their mares now, that's great, but do not count on having them flock to your stallion in numbers. I doubt there is any Mini stallion in the country that gets more than a few outside mares each year and I'm quite sure there is no stallion owner getting rich off of stud fees.

As Jill said there are just so many mare owners that have their own stallions. In big horses, the majority of mare owners do not have stallions, so they do breed to outside stallions when they want to raise a foal or two. In minis it is quite rare get outside mares. People figure it is a better deal to go & buy their own stallion for $300 or $1000 rather than pay that same amount on a breeding fee to an outside stallion. Some don't want to take their mare somewhere & leave her in the care of someone else. Taking a mare off farm means possible exposure to something contagious; it means leaving her in the care of someone the mare owner may not know at all, someone who may not be concerned about her health and wellbeing. She may not be well fed, she may be injured--these are all reasons why people do not want to take a mare out for breeding.

Taking only quality mares can be a problem--it is fine to say "approved mares only" but you will find when you refuse someone's mare because her conformation is not up to your standard you will create very hard feelings. No one wants to be told that their mare is not good enough to breed to your stallion, not even if you word it nicely. If you make up some other excuse, rather than telling them that conformation is not good enough....they still will not appreciate being turned away.

Make sure that you have insurance, and you must have a safe place to put visiting mares; you must have a safe paddock for a mare that comes with foal at side, because you sure don't want anything happening to that mare or foal while they are in your care. Make sure that your contact specifies that mare owner is responsible for all vet and farrier care while the mare is at your place. Make sure that it specifies what happens if the mare is injured during breeding or if she dies while at your farm. Make sure your contract specifies what happens if the mare does not catch in foal or if she comes up open after being sent home as bred. Specify that your breeding contract is non-transferable--this saved us once upon a time. You can choose who you do or do not want to deal with, but not once the mare gets sold to someone else.

Jill is right--if there is any problem at all you can be sure that the mare owner will put the blame 100% on the stallion and/or stallion owner,

 

[disneyhorse]

If showing is a challenge due to time and lack of shows on your area, you can always send him to a trainer. Many, many people do just that to promote their young stallions!

 

[minimomNC]

While we won't say no to breeding outside mares, our stud fees are pretty high for young stallions. However both of my stallions are either World/National champions and one is a Res National Grand Champion, all in halter and they are not flocking to my door at all. So a show record doesn't mean instant breedings. It helps, but not much. As for turning down a mare, I agree, its hard to do without insulting the owner and once you do that, your toast because that owner will bad mouth you and your stallion. If you really want to make money with your stallion, the best way is to geld him and put him in the Gelding Programs that both AMHA and AMHR have, otherwise its going to be a losing deal in most cases. The market is very bad for almost anything, so people don't want to spend a stud fee just to get a foal that they might have to give away. Your time and money is probably best spent in having fun and showing your horse. If someone wants to breed to him fine, if not then your not out advertising money.

 

[HGFarm]

I have to agree with Jill for the most part on breeding to outside mares. You can advertise 'to approved mares only', which means you have to agree with the mare's conformation also before breeding. Is the mare a viable broodmare? Good foaling record or are they sending you a problem mare in hopes of getting a foal- then it will be your fault if she turns up open? They have to agree to any and all vet bills for the mare- if there are reproductive issues that need to be looked at to get her in foal. And absolutely all paperwork and health stuff in order before coming to your place, including a culture to show no infections or problems that can ruin your stallion.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Once again - no, he is not being gelded. In the future I ould like to own mares. Also, once again - I am not in it for the money, however, a few hundred bucks here and there would be nice. I appreciate all of your help, however I am well versed in how to promote genetics, contracts, etc. I am not expecting mares to pour in, however, where are some good websites, magazines, etc that would be good to put an add in, and when is it appropiate to turn a mare away, for reasons other than health. I am not denying help, I just don't feel like my questions have yet to be ansewered.

 

[minimomNC]

The best way to advertise your stallion, get professional photos, do full page color ads in breed magazines, put ads on anything mini related with full color pictures. You have to get his name out there, get photos of what he has produced and what they have done in the show ring. The absolute best way is to put him with a top trainer, that will get him more recognition than about anything. He needs to be at the shows and winning. He needs to have the whole package. There are so many places to advertise but your horse being in the ring with a top trainer is the best way for people to see the value of a breeding to him. It will also be the best way to get people interested in his foals when you do breed.

As for mares, I would only breed to quality mares that either have an extensive show record (not first out of one at the local open show) or have had foals that are now winning in the ring. The problem with "approved" mares is, what I like might not be what someone else likes so my definition of quality could be very different from yours. Thats something you have to decide for yourself.

Bottom line, if your stallion is not making a name for himself somewhere, be it in halter or performace, then just an ad will be a waste of money in the industry today.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I am going to attempt to give some wanted advice. I always ask that mares have clean cultures, current negative coggins, current health papers, must be registered with AMHA and/or AMHR (or ASPC If you breed shetlands), no major conformation defects (bad bite, deformities, ect), must be under a certain height for smaller stallions, and must lead and tie (you will be amazed how many unhandled mares are out there!). The AMHA World and AMHR Journal magazines are easily the best choice, any basic horse websites are good, lots of people advertise on groups on Facebook, dreamhorse, horseclicks, equinenow, and miniaturehorsefarmsdirectory are all good websites too. A website of some kind to advertise your stallion with lots of pictures and information plus pedigree and pictures of horses in his pedigree would be a great idea too so you can link all other ads back to that one website that you keep updated. Hope this helps some and just my personal opinions/requirements.

 

[targetsmom]

I agree with so much that has already been said, especially by Jill, which is why we don't stand our stallion to outside mares.

But I am going to offer what I hope is wanted advice: You might want to just concentrate on the local market and skip the trainer and the national magazine ads where it will be very hard to recoup your costs. Without advertising, we have had requests to breed our stallion to local mares. So you might try local ads, local/regional FB pages, regional magazines such as Equine Journal, Lil Beginnings Saleboard, etc. You will still need some claim to fame though, or some reason why your stallion is a better choice than the other options. If he has sired fantastic foals, that would be a great claim to fame in my book, even if he himself has no show record.

 

[BigDogs & LittleHorses]

The best way to advertise your stallion, get professional photos, do full page color ads in breed magazines, put ads on anything mini related with full color pictures. You have to get his name out there, get photos of what he has produced and what they have done in the show ring. The absolute best way is to put him with a top trainer, that will get him more recognition than about anything. He needs to be at the shows and winning. He needs to have the whole package. There are so many places to advertise but your horse being in the ring with a top trainer is the best way for people to see the value of a breeding to him. It will also be the best way to get people interested in his foals when you do breed.

As for mares, I would only breed to quality mares that either have an extensive show record (not first out of one at the local open show) or have had foals that are now winning in the ring. The problem with "approved" mares is, what I like might not be what someone else likes so my definition of quality could be very different from yours. Thats something you have to decide for yourself.

Bottom line, if your stallion is not making a name for himself somewhere, be it in halter or performace, then just an ad will be a waste of money in the industry today.

Can you give some cost examples of what you are proposing?

• Professional photos
  
• Full color ad in a breed magazine
  
• Top trainer
  
• Show entry fees