Best companies

[SKMDREAMERSMINIS]

Hi every one

Just wondering what your preferred company is for probiotics? And also grain?

Thanks

 

[AngC]

Just wondering what your preferred company is for probiotics? And also grain?

Sorry, I have no suggestions. I don't feed any sort of grain, because all 3 of ours are fat bombs. And then I read that horses are engineered to be forage animals, with the preferred forage being stuff like grass or dried-up grass (ie...hay.)

I'm trying to remember when I first heard of probiotics. I guess I'm an old fogey; but, it left me wondering what the heck we did before we had the magical effects of probiotics (whatever those miraculous effects might be.)

 

[always learning]

!'m just waiting to see what's next, after the probiotic hype dies out. I never needed to pay any attention to probiotics because my digestion always worked, and don't even like yogurt. So far, the only supplement I've fed the livestock(that wasn't in the grain) was a little extra selenium for the goats. Molly gets about a cup of Purina mini horse and pony grain a day, but that's mostly to keep her calm while the other stock is grained. She'd probably be fine on no grain.

 

[amysue]

I have always fed Purina products to my horses, cows and birds. I have used it for 20+ years and my first "real" job was managing a Purina feed dealership. I like the diversity of their product line, the research that goes into the products and my animals have always done well on it.

As far as pro biotics, only one of my horses gets them, he has an ulcer and they definitely made an improvement in his over all digestion. I give him the Pro Bios gel. He made some improvement with ulcer guard theatment, but began passing undigested food, so we added pro biotics and the problem quickly resolved. I do start all of my holstein calves on the same pro biotic, only in powder form as they do not spend enough time with their mother to acquire any gut flora. They make a gel that you squirt on their tongue that we like, but it is more cost effective for me to add the powder to their milk and feed it in a nursing bottle.

As far as grain, every national brand makes so many varieties tailored to individual needs, so in many cases, a person's preference may be biased toward what is available in their area. We have more blue seal and nutrena dealers here than we do purina, and the big chain store, Tractor Supply, only carries a limited line of purina and nutrena. I have heard more than a few people complain that they do not like/use a particular brand because their horse did not thrive on a particular item. Often, they were not feeding the correct item for that horse's needs. As far as quality ingredients and consistency in the product, both Nutrena and Purina have always gotten my approval. I do avoid the Dumor and Pride lines from tractor supply on the advice of both of our veterinarians and our herd nutritionists because the quality of those products and ingredients are very poor. I have had to use their chicken layer feed once or twice when the store was out of Layena, and my birds hardly wanted to eat it and their egg production plummeted (and this was not during a molt) I wouldn't dare feed their feeds to my horses. My father in law bought a bag of their all stock once, to feed a steer, it smelled sour and wasn't even real sweet feed, it was just a "wet pellet" the cows wouldn't even eat it. There is probably a good reason why it is cheaper than the name brands, and I think it has to do with quality. I loved Poulin grain more than any other product, even Purina but it is difficult to find a complete line here. If you could find Poulin, you would like it, I'm sure.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My supplement has a probiotic. When my horse was recovering from a colic attack, and seemed prone to another attack when the weather changed, I put him on prebiotic, which is totally different than probiotic. The one I used was a liquid from Dynamite. The horse never had another colic attack while I owned him, and the weather-related tendency went away also. I believe the prebiotic was the reason he did so well. It was pricey, but cheaper than vet bills.

I did not really know the difference between the two products until the colic episode and I began to research treatments.

As for grain, I buy oat groats. There is a plant nearby that makes mixtures for exotic birds. I buy oat groats there. I mainly give them 1 C groats daily as a socialization gesture. I don't feel they need it for nutrition, since my horses have good pasture and I feed a vit/min supplement. Groats are expensive--$26 for 50#--but a bag lasts me a long time so I don't mind.

If 50 people reply to your question, you will likely get 50 different answers! You'll probably have to do what everyone had to do--go by trail and error!

 

[Debby - LB]

I've used Mito Horse brand for my horses, you can get it from your veterinarian. There are only certain Live-active cultures of friendly bacteria that can help to prevent and treat symptoms in horses. Digestive heath is very important. I used to use it at weaning, worming, vaccines, any sign of colic, and I always use it if we're taking antibiotics. Probiotics are also good to ward off infection and for boosting the immune system.

For grain I use SafeChoice Special Care which has pre and probiotics in it. Both of my Miniature Horses are very easy keepers, and one has metabolic issues.

 

[SKMDREAMERSMINIS]

Ok thanks everyone

 

[Strangeaddiction]

I use Bio Mos and Yea Sacc on all my horses (big and small) and notice a huge difference in digestion, skin/coat and overall attitude (if they have tummy problems when i get them). A lot of grains or other supplements have this in it but I buy them both straight and add to the grain. I dont like byproducts or "all inclusive grains" so I stay pretty old fashioned.

 

[AngC]

I didn't realize there was such a thing as a "prebiotic" vice a "probiotic." Somebody mentioned yogurt, which sounds right (?) (I guess) I vaguely recollect Jamie Lee Curtis hawking some brand for human gut health. I checked our fridge; there's a regular yogurt from a local dairy and a Greek yoghurt. I checked the label; no mention of any sort of pre- or pro- biotic.

The fridge yielded a couple Yoplait Whips, which are advertised as "light and fluffy." No sort of biotic-stuff listed on that label either. {By the way, they're rather nasty; I bought a half dozen in a fervor of health consciousness. ...there's still 3 to go.) (The label shows some preservatives and some corn product.)

amysue mentioned Purina; so I was reading up on their bagged horse feed; somehow I wandered off into Google-land reading about herbicides in Purina horse feed.

I guess I must be one of those "Natural" horse people that I've seen vilified on various horse forums. Hay, grass, water. That's all I feed. Perhaps, if I keep reading here, there, and everywhere, I'll be learn or be convinced that there's something better.

 

[Minimor]

It is unfortunate that some people belittle everything they do not personally believe in.

The original question...I feed Masterfeeds grain when I need something extra; I usually get their 14% pellets. It contains brewers yeast and I have found it good for keeping pot bellies off the newly weaned foals. I haven't had anyone that needed anything more in the way of probiotics. Otherwise my grain of choice is oats. I was buying rolled oats but this past summer I found a farmer who bags and sells whole oats -- I am very pleased to have that instead of the rolled version.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I'm with AmySue - Poulin or Blue Seal.

All my critters eat blue seal currently, even the dogs. My fussy hound dog that couldn't even handle the grain free dye free limited ingredient way over priced blue buffalo dog food looks PHENOMENAL on the $26 for 50lbs blue seal dog food. Smooth, shiny, no ear issues, and he can actually keep the weight ON! He always looked like a rescue case even though he had unlimited access to pricey dog kibble, that he ate really well.

My filly was on the blue seal mare and foal grain for the summer. She was jacked, tons of muscle, sleek, shiny coat, I was happy with it. Right now she just eats grass because I'm not showing her. I think it's 18% protein and not super high starch. I've used their 'carb guard' in the past on my mini and really liked it as well. Hard to find though sometimes.

I like Poulin as well. I have fed it before. I have been happy with it for sure! They also paid for me to go to a hoof trimming/euthanasia course for cattle, so I'm a touch bias there too

 

[Debby - LB]

LOL well AngC wander off into Google land some more and you'll learn that pesticides (insecticides, fungicides, herbicides) are everywhere. Even those who only feed hay, grass, and water are subject to them.
About probiotics they are the beneficial bacteria that live in our intestinal tracts. Yogurt is a fermented milk product that is soured and thickened by adding specific lactic acid-producing cultures.
If the label says live and active cultures then you have a product with probiotics. The label on the container will tell you which probiotics are in the yogurt.

wondering what the heck we did before we had the magical effects of probiotics....

Yogurt isn't the only way to supplement the bacteria we, and our horses, dogs etc. sometimes need.
Probiotic foods are nothing new either they've been around for thousands of years. Pickles, miso, aged cheese, kefir, sauerkraut, kimchi...and the list goes on. Granted some of the commercialized store products aren't worth much, it's way better to ferment your own, but don't discount their worth.

 

[SKMDREAMERSMINIS]

thanks

 

[AngC]

LOL well AngC wander off into Google land some more and you'll learn that pesticides (insecticides, fungicides, herbicides) are everywhere. Even those who only feed hay, grass, and water are subject to them.

Searching on the internet is frustrating for me. Media often pick one little part of a topic and write a provocative headline, which is then picked up by the aggregators, each one parroting the other, then some media folks throw in their own spin, that they (seems to me) simply make up. I guess I could throw my hands in the air and bow to the inevitable that pesticides are everywhere and just give up. But, I'm not quite ready to give up yet. I'd like to try and educate myself.

I would like to clarify....

I have no interest in packaged/bagged horse feed and no axe to grind on this topic. I was reading about herbicides in Purina feed totally by accident. I don't feed their product or any bagged product. I was reading about compost, because this was the first year I decided to throw horse manure out in our veggie garden; plus we threw about 15 buckets of cedar needles in the same garden area, because they appeared to be messing with Nicky's navigation. I was concerned we'd overdone it in that section of our garden. So I was reading online about compost. I totally stumbled across the topic of KILLER COMPOST!!!! I don't know about you all, but that one kind of grabbed my attention. And it took a whole bunch of searching to find two sources that seemed reputable. Long story short, some herbicides pass through the horse, coupled with certain composting methods, small amounts of herbicides in the manure in compost can stunt vegetable plants. If I'm going to spend a growing season on weed control, I don't want to end up with stunted veggies. This apparently first occurred in 2012. The actual effect seems legit to me--curled leaves, stunted vegetables. ... photos aplenty on-line. ...happened in multiples states. The one state where I could find lab results was Vermont. They lab-tested a few rounds ending with a round-robin with 6/7 labs involved. The results were non-repeatable; some labs detected herbicides that weren't registered for use or had no record of being used. And I'm not entirely sure whether the Purina feed was analyzed in one or two sets of testing. Additionally the amounts found in the Purina feed were well below government required standards. Probably ok for the horse. ...not so good for the veggies. I checked back today; three years later, the Vermont compost facility still doesn't accept horse manure. I wonder what the Vermont horse facilities are doing with their poop. Based on the tests, it's just my opinion, but I think they got a raw deal.

That said.... One of the most difficult things I've found as a newbie horse owner is the feeding. I would truly love to discuss various feeding problems with someone/anyone. Unfortunately, some horse owners appear to be sensitive. I realize I've wandered off-topic, but when someone comments that I'm belittling things I don't agree with, it flamber-ghasts me.(I made that word up.) It appears to me, that if I don't toe the company line, I ought to be drummed out of the county. If I don't nod in agreement, then that's the end of the discussion? What sort of discussion/exchange of ideas is that?

Edited-to-Add: I checked my yogurt cartons; one lists the actual types. And thank you, you gave me some ideas. I don't think I'll try to make yogurt though; I'd probably make some sort of smelly mess or poison myself. I'm not convinced on the benefits. I think there's promising research, but it's not there yet.

 

[paintponylvr]

"Killer compost" is here to stay in NC for the next while, IMO... NOT in the feeds but due to the products used to get rid of all the weeds in the hay fields and even in our pastures!! And it takes 2 years to compost pony manure mixed with hay (or even not mixed with hay but pulled out of the stall corner or trailer) to get away from the results of killing veggie plants. Why? It takes 2 years of exposure to sunlight or heat(composting) for the herbicides/pesticides to break down after passing thru the horse in the form of manure.

I learned this on my own, thru usage, not thru testing at a facility. HOWEVER, all of the hay farmers i buy my hay from have told me what they spray their fields with (and the "prettier" their hay, the more they've used) and I then researched that product(s). Labels say right on them IS NOT MEANT FOR vegetable gardens and that it will kill veggie plants NOT genetically formulated to handle them and/or all broad leafed veggie plants. No-one around here that I've found doesn't spray their fields with something - though some do spray a lot less (spraying makes it pretty but it's expensive!). I can also tell who does and doesn't use Fire Ant Killer or use it effectively. After just 9 months on this property - we seem to have introduced Fire Ants where we didn't have any before. They came in the hay from a different county.

****

As to best brands of feed - I think that I answered that one directly earlier. Have to post this to go check.

 

[paintponylvr]

and I hadn't given my preference on this thread...

You need to make some comparisons on your own to the feeds that you have available. IF you know that you will be traveling with your horse(s) such as going to overnight expos or shows, you will need to either carry all of your feed requirements with you OR feed a feed that you know you can get anywhere in the US at one of the many "chain" stores that are open at later hours. I fed Nutrena Safe Choice for many years for that reason - I didn't have to carry much with me and I knew that I could get it just about anywhere at times when I'd be on the road... Makes it so much easier!

I have used Southern States, Mule City, Nutrena, Purina and Buckeye feeds. One of the trainers' my ponies went to used Blue Seal (I can't easily get that around here) and the ones she had in training did great and looked AWESOME but she also had different hay, too. The ponies were round and slick (but they were also inside,under fans in heat and blankets in cold and groomed 2x daily! and worked long/hard with a huge energy output!) - they both became extremely "hot" and hard to handle when they came home while on that same feed until they came "down" a bit... They were out on pasture and didn't get the same amount of work in any way, shape or form.

Your horse(s) age, body type, sex and work level will determine what types of feed you will need. And then some horses just defy all the recommendations, too. You also will need to know what type of pasture grass and hay you will have and how your horse will do on it. Like others, your horse may need very little feed! That would be ideal and awesome for both your horse(s) and you.

AngC and MiniMor - I'm soooo jealous! I'd love to feed just PASTURE, HAY and water! Or just OATS for feed. That's what many of our ponies got in the mid-west and even when I lived in CO and MT. They did great and it worked BECAUSE of the differences in the nutrients in the hay/pasture and the ground it came from.

BUT something about the pasture I've had my ponies/horses on here AND the number of the ponies/horses we've had, means that I don't have pasture/grass that will support them. None of my guys that came from the mid-west do well just on coastal/bermuda hay (they DO LOVE it though and will always leave timothy/orchard grass hay & sometimes alfalfa hay to eat it). They did awesome when they had access to swamp land with lots of varied growths AND/OR the pasture/hay from the northern areas of NC (not just coastal). Also, it's amazing how well and fast they will clean up many of the weeds that we don't want to see in our hay! Some of those "weeds" have nutrients that are good for them and that some of them crave.

 

[Debby - LB]

quote -It appears to me, that if I don't toe the company line, I ought to be drummed out of the county.

Happy to have you join the club!! that's exactly how I´ve been made to feel.

We had the problems with the compost and still do since we do use pasture-pro and sometimes 2-4D on our pastures. I never used my own compost on the veggies and herbs. If we used those products that year, I bought bagged soil for my container gardening..,.,well it was all in what I bought a couple years ago and we had the yellowed curled leaves and stunted stuff, it was a @##@& mess.

Even rain samples contain pesticides. No way around it no matter where we turn.

 

[AngC]

AngC and MiniMor - I'm soooo jealous! I'd love to feed just PASTURE, HAY and water!

I'd love to just feed pasture, but I can't. I'm not the coldest beer in the fridge when it comes to taking care of horses, but I'm pretty good at growing things. We had a dry summer; after the first couple rains the pasture portions from which the girls are locked out have flourished. I was out there today looking at the pasture (while the girls munched on dried-up expensive hay) and was thinking what a shame it is that all that pasture is going to waste. There is no way I would let them out there. They have no off button on their feeding apparatus. They get to go out for five minutes on halter. Sigh.

 

[paintponylvr]

I'd love to just feed pasture, but I can't. I'm not the coldest beer in the fridge when it comes to taking care of horses, but I'm pretty good at growing things. We had a dry summer; after the first couple rains the pasture portions from which the girls are locked out have flourished. I was out there today looking at the pasture (while the girls munched on dried-up expensive hay) and was thinking what a shame it is that all that pasture is going to waste. There is no way I would let them out there. They have no off button on their feeding apparatus. They get to go out for five minutes on halter. Sigh.

IF wishes could happen, I'd send you 1/2 my sand and you could send me 1/2 your "over rich" pasture!!

That "green" in the paddock with the chicken hoop coops is mostly thorny growth that the guy in the last pic is here to bush hog down. I got caught on many of those thorny roots while doing chicken chores - lots of scars from knees to ankles to show. GRRRR....

With the rain we just got, (our rain gauge isn't working right now, but it was a significant amount) we should have some grass growing like crazy here in several areas if the temps stay above 50*... I see that all the pastures are already growing - ponies have all left bales and are eating the grass as it's poking thru! I still have to get the last set of fencing up to enclose the 8 Jr girls, then we will be starting on amending the sand to support grass. Missed the dates for getting winter rye or any other crop in (sept/ear Oct) but hoping I make it for cover "grass" next spring (pearl millet, peas, coastal hay, clover mix...) in the areas around the outsides of each of these paddocks...

and honestly, even where grass growth is "heavier", it's not enough for the ponies... Only pic i have showing the grass, sorry. Todd was out to bush hog the thorny/tree/bush growth in the pastures. We will need to keepup on that and some bushes will need to be hand dug out.

Sorry - OP but at least you can SEE what the differences are in different areas of the US, I don't remember - did you say where you were? What is your weather like? How much area do you have for your minis? How many minis? What sex? What body types? CURIOUS!!

 

[chandab]

I'd love to just feed pasture, but I can't. I'm not the coldest beer in the fridge when it comes to taking care of horses, but I'm pretty good at growing things. We had a dry summer; after the first couple rains the pasture portions from which the girls are locked out have flourished. I was out there today looking at the pasture (while the girls munched on dried-up expensive hay) and was thinking what a shame it is that all that pasture is going to waste. There is no way I would let them out there. They have no off button on their feeding apparatus. They get to go out for five minutes on halter. Sigh.

If your pasture is big enough to be worthwhile, perhaps you could find someone to cut and bale it for you. It's often done on shares, land owner keeping a portion and farmer keeping a portion; or straight up paid for. Hard part might be finding someone with a small square baler if that is your bale preference.