Barn Sour

[Bunnylady]

I'll admit, this horse has gotten to me. He was dumped on a friend of mine, when his previous owner went off to college. My friend thought she might be able to use him for trail rides. They trailered him up to a local beach, he did fine there. But last week, when they went on a trail ride starting from the barn, he kept trying to turn back and run home. I hear he was a real handful. Do you think this is "fixable," at his age?

It's true, I'm always a sucker for hard-luck cases.

His previous owner remarked that his ground manners were great, but under saddle, he was a buffalo. I can attest to the first part - he's a good boy on a lead, or off. He's a bay (probably my favorite color,) with two socks and a star. When I walk through the pasture, he walks with me - I guess he knows a softy when he sees one!

He's being fed in a pasture, with a couple of other horses, and has lost weight in the last couple of months. I can see that some of this could be a maintenance issue; underweight, under-muscled, and given that he knows where home is, who can blame him for wanting to quit? But his previous owner's remark makes it sound like this behavior isn't new.

If it were "my nickel," I'd try to fix this. I guess that's one of the biggest differences between my friend and me. I tend to play the hand that's been dealt, she frequently folds and hopes for better luck with the next hand. She's talking about donating him to the auction at Lake Waccamaw (her solution for several problem horses in the past.) I, of course, am concerned about what may happen to any horse going through an auction in these times. I wish I had the time and resources to "put my money where my mouth is" and take him on myself, but this is the real world. The last thing she needs is an animal that has no use other than consuming feed. Heaven knows, she's not the right sort of owner for this horse! Arabians are said to be smart, I don't think she knows how to deal with a brainy horse. So should I just let it go, and let him go, or should I try to persuade her to put more time and money into him? Here I go, setting myself up to get my heart bruised again, you'd think I'd learn, wouldn't you?

 

[MyBarakah]

Yes.... he could be taught not to get away with it.... but it all is depending who's riding him! If he knows he can get away with it...... he will.... obviously she doesn't know how to correct him or have the "right timeing"......

So if you get him... the question will be will you beable to correct the problem or make it worse?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

The simplest answers are "No, he's not to old to learn better behavior" and "Yes, Arabs ARE very smart and sensitive and need riders who can handle that." If your friend is not that kind of rider (and it sounds like she's not), the horse would be better off with someone who speaks his language.

Can you ask around your area or post an honest ad for him at the feed store and see if you can find him a better home before she dumps him at the auction? I share your worries about what would happen if he goes there.

Poor guy. He sounds like a sweetie who just needs some love, food and attention.

Leia

 

[HGFarm]

Yes, he can get over it.... they just have to not allow it, as mentioned here. If the worst he is doing is just trying to turn and go home, that is easily correctable.

We had purchased a couple many years ago that I will never forget.... egads, but they were all fixable and learned in time and worked out quite well.

Just lots of patience and keep them going in the direction they are supposed to and they will finally give it up.... I agree... the horse just needs lots of love, attention and work and I think things will be well. It is probably upset over being moved (dumped on top of that, how sad) and sometimes this breed gets pretty attached to 'its people' and probably wonders what is going on too in general.

Security is always at the barn.... Maybe if they take some trail rides from the barn, and take his favorite treat and stop out on the trail for a break, with a treat, a nice scratch behind the ears and some positive attention for even just five minutes... the horse knows that good things happen while you are out there too. ???

 

[Bunnylady]

... the question will be will you beable to correct the problem or make it worse?

Yes, that is the $25,000 question, isn't it? Or does what one does to try to correct this behavior create another that is even worse? I really can't say for sure. I know that riding him home at a gallop, immediately untacking him and turning him out (which I saw my friend and her son do) will most likely only reinforce this behavior! (Her one thought was "Maybe a harsher bit.") I haven't dealt with this issue with a riding horse, that is certainly true. I have, however, had lots of practice dealing with this with my 11-year-old mini mule. I know, there is a world of difference between walking behind or beside a 33" mule with a bad case of the "I-don't-wanna's," and riding a 15 hand Arab with the same mindset! But I can say that I know quite a bit about being patient, but persistant; being kind and firm and fair. You don't bully a mule, because it will come back to bite you (sometimes literally!) If I am sure that I am not being unreasonable, I will not quit. And when she pleases me, she gets carrots, which pleases her!

My friend is a small-time horse dealer. She loves an animal that she can haul to a couple of shows, win lots of ribbons, and then sell at a tidy profit! I feed at her barn at least twice a week. While I am pretty much indifferent to some of the animals she gets, I usually find something I can like about most of them. I feel that dealing with all these different horses, even minimally, is good for me as a horseperson. I hope they benefit from being around me as well! Most of them I can say goodbye to without a qualm, feeling fairly sure that they are going to someone who values them, if only for what they can do. But every once in awhile, she'll get an animal with a problem that I think is so much more. She eventually gets rid of them, sometimes to the auction, and I feel that somehow, I have let them down. All I can do is pray that their luck turns around, and they wind up with someone who will love them, and know how to work with them.

 

[HGFarm]

I am concerned about your 'horse dealer friend' in that they dont know how to correct a horse wanting to go back to the barn, yet think it's ok to run one home!!! ??

All these people are doing is taking a minor problem and are going to make it an extreme problem with a nasty run away situation, if the horse does not end up crippled first, or another problem.

These are not 'horsemen' or 'horsewomen' in any sense of the word- pardon my being blunt, but folks like this just make we want to.. :arg!

There is a HUGE difference in being a horseman - being able to 'keep a leg on each side' and remaining ignorant of things that simple 'horse sense' would be obvious to most people. People like this have no business having animals, IMHO- all they know how to do is make bad habits worse and sell some kid an old horse that is likely going to end up getting someone else hurt!! NO COMMON SENSE and no kindness or true caring for these animals- they are only interested in making a buck.

 

[mininik]

Oh... wow. I'm afraid that poor old horse doesn't stand much of a chance with your clueless friend, or at auction. I agree with Leia's suggestion to help find him another, better home ASAP. Find out what your friend will take for the horse and contact your local 4H or FFA clubs, as well as any other local groups that put on shows in your area. Especially if the horse is registered, contact your local Arabian club about him, too. I would even contact area rescues to alert them to the situation and this horse possibly going to auction. Good luck...

 

[HGFarm]

Excellent ideas Mininik!!! I was so disgusted with what I read, I just didnt think past that!

Maybe even someone on here would like to get an older nice Arabian to ride??!!

 

[Bunnylady]

Mininik, you've given me an idea. . . . Hmmmm.

Laurie, as to the :arg! I say, join the club. There are a number of people who manage to care about this friend of mine, yet we are almost in dispair about her cluelessness. She really is a very likeable person, we keep sticking around in hopes that she will learn better! In my darker moods, I think what I do almost amounts to "enabling," at others, I think of it as "damage control."

 

[twilightranch]

Maybe the old owners will want him back if they find out the lady is going to take him to auction.

 

[Ashley]

SO how do you go about fixing that kind of problem? I have a riding horse here that does that, I have kind of given up and have been trying to find him a home and get something better. (of coarse if he dont find a home he will be a pasture pet.

 

[mininik]

Ashley - First be sure that your horse is not in some discomfort. My old mare has a tendency to want to go home quickly and she also wants to stay with the horses we ride with. I've found it helpful to take her on short rides, then asking her (to stay back from group if we're with one) to concentrate alone on simple things like circling, weaving, whoaing, backing, changes in speed and direction, etc., especially on the way home. I stay calm and don't make a big deal out of it, and when she quiets and focuses on what I'm asking, I mark it and release her to keep going, then ask for another simple task or back in the direction we are going. I watch her closely and if I see a sign that she's about to start fussing, I simply ask her to go back to "work." When she walks along quietly, I reinforce her with kind words and patting. I try to keep this sort of thing random all the way home, and even then I may not simply tie her up and untack her. Sometimes I'll ride her around a bit and work on the same stuff at home, or tie her up for a bit before riding off with her a short distance alone and returning. Hauling her someplace new and taking her out was also helpful, as was taking various trails around home.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

SO how do you go about fixing that kind of problem? I have a riding horse here that does that, I have kind of given up and have been trying to find him a home and get something better. (of coarse if he dont find a home he will be a pasture pet.

You make going out very pleasant, and going home a whole lot of work.

If I had a horse with that tendency he'd get a good long workout (a productive, positive one, mind you) at home and then be allowed to go out on the trail as a reward. When he started acting up he'd be asked calmly to circle, bend, flex, move his hindquarters and otherwise refocus his attention on ME, and when he did he'd be allowed to rest and praised. If I didn't have a bucket of grain or some such stashed out on the trail ahead of time, he'd get a food reward from me as soon as he stood quietly or at unexpected intervals when he's being good. (Okay, honestly I'd be clicker training anyway but it's easily done without that too!) Then I'd ask him to continue moving away from home and when he started up again the whole process would repeat. Once he's gone calmly for awhile I'm going to give him what he wants most and ask him to turn around which, of course, is going to make him freak out.

Every time he freaks he's going to be made to work and sent away from home again. He'll soon figure out that the better he behaves, the quicker he's going to be allowed to go home. Once he's home unless he was exceptionally good I'm going to give him one last little workout then finally put him away. I wouldn't even put him in his paddock right away, I'd keep him out grooming and fussing over him and rewarding him for focusing on me.

The important thing is not to ride a horse like this away from home if you don't have time to deal with it properly. It will only frustrate you and send mixed messages to the horse which you'll have to spend weeks undoing. If you can dedicate a few days or weeks to fixing this problem you won't have to worry about it again and can then focus on enjoying your trail rides together.

Be consistent!

Home right now equals buddies, security, food, and relaxation to the horse while leaving home is work, loneliness, frightening things and no enjoyment. We want to invert that so going out on the trail means pleasant experiences, partnership and food (even if it's just a picnic where he gets to graze) and going home is boring and not going to get him anything he didn't already get on the trail. I live in the suburbs where our "trail riding" isn't exactly stellar (we hit the same one-block radius of pavement over and over again) and yet every horse we've ever had can't wait to get out there, buddies or not. In fact they usually hustle on the way out and drag tail all the way home!

Barn sour is something that just doesn't happen here using this method.

Leia

P.S.- I agree with Niki about finding your local Arab club and letting them know. Hopefully someone there would be willing to rescue him!

Edited to add: Niki posted while I was writing and I agree with her 100%.

 

[Laura]

[SIZE=12pt]See, I'm on the other side I guess. I recently borrowed a lovely mare from a friend. She was barn, herd, everything sour, to the point of attempting to spin and bolt home, not just being stubborn. It was fun to RIDE again, but she was NOT fun to ride, just constant fighting. I sent her back home. I don't bounce anymore. I have two small kids and a buttload of animals to care for several times a day. I can't afford to get hurt, working through her issues.... I am planning to ride a mare this weekend or next, preparatory to bring her home. She's sweet, slow (far too slow and lazy for her speed breeder home) and sounds just my style

[/SIZE]

 

[Bunnylady]

[SIZE=12pt]See, I'm on the other side I guess. I recently borrowed a lovely mare from a friend. She was barn, herd, everything sour, to the point of attempting to spin and bolt home, not just being stubborn. It was fun to RIDE again, but she was NOT fun to ride, just constant fighting. I sent her back home. I don't bounce anymore. I have two small kids and a buttload of animals to care for several times a day. I can't afford to get hurt, working through her issues.... I am planning to ride a mare this weekend or next, preparatory to bring her home. She's sweet, slow (far too slow and lazy for her speed breeder home) and sounds just my style

[/SIZE]

Yeah, the bouncing part has me worried a bit, too. I never rode regularly, and it's been a long time. An Arabian, even one this senior, doesn't sound like the ideal sort of animal for me to begin on. Otherwise, I'd gladly volunteer to work with this guy, if only to give him a bit more time.

The horse's previous owner seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. I'll have to ask my friend if she knows whether this horse is registered. Cedarbrook Arabians (a new breeding operation) is right around the corner from me (nearly in my back yard) do you reckon they might be able to help point me in the right direction?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

It's worth a try! 23 is not particularly senior for an Arab, mine was still doing 25 mile competitive trail rides at that age.

Leia

 

[mininik]

Anything is worth a try. My 20-something year old Ay-rab is also still going strong. I'm no expert rider, and she's no expert mount, but we manage to take care of eachother and have lots of fun.

 

[chandab]

Anything is worth a try. My 20-something year old Ay-rab is also still going strong. I'm no expert rider, and she's no expert mount, but we manage to take care of eachother and have lots of fun.

Sounds like my boy. I just love Arabians, you'd think I'd have more than one (my other two saddle horses are stock horses, 1 APHA mare, and 1 AQHA gelding).