Are we too involved with colour?

[Lizzie]

Mini Horses certainly come in a vast array of colours. Maybe more than any other breed. However, I've been wondering if we are just overly involved with breeding for colour. For the past couple of weeks, I have been stuck in my chair with my back out again. This of course, affords lots of time to research. Certainly, we all have our favourite colours in any equine breed, but do yoou think too many of us breed for colour alone?

Look at any all-breed forum, and we see people breeding incredibly poor quality horses, to pretty much anything of colour. No thoughts of conformation or if a given stallion compliments the mare. Horses of colour do seem to sell better than those of solid colours. We humans really do seem to like something which appears pretty. I think it is a normal reaction. Having been in horse longer than (probably) most of you have been alive, I have seen this push to breed the colours much more, than in years past.

All this came to mind, in doing research on Mini stallions. Many whom I liked best, were solid bay or chestnut. Now I will admit, that bay is my favourite colour in equines of any breed. Do I like other colours? Of course I do. I love a good gray or silver. But in the end, it comes down (for me anyway) to the horse and its conformation. Whether or not the stallion compliments the mare I wish to breed. How the pedigree looks on paper. Does the stallion's pedigree usually do well when bred to the pedigree and horses of my mare?

These days, I tend to think, many breed on colour alone and less consider the actual horse/s. What say you?

Lizzie

 

[ohmt]

I put no stock in pedigree and color for entirely the reasons you have stated. People get too caught up and forget about conformation. I have some appaloosas and my goal with them is to have an appaloosa but with the conformation I like. I searched for many years to find the right stallions and I breed them to my very best mares who I think will compliment them. Sometimes I get color, sometimes not. What I love the most is that even if I don't get a loud appy out of it, I still have a great horse. This year I ended up with two loud appy colts and even without the color I think they're fantastic. I brought one to a show last weekend and had numerous people who show at the National and World level tell me he was one of the best apps they've seen and that they normally don't like them. That was a HUGE deal for me and exactly what I strive for-to produce excellent horses no matter the color

 

[2minis4us]

Conformation always comes first with me, and then color, but I want both.

 

[ohmt]

Want to add quick that the color problem is one that has become exponentially better over the years. I think the bigger problem is people buying and breeding off of pedigrees instead of the horse that's in front of them.

 

[little lady]

When looking for/at a horse conformation & disposition are my priority. But I have to agree I see people breeding for a pretty colored horse. What is one to do?

Edited to add: I would love to have it all-Conformation, disposition and a beautiful color!

 

[Lizzie]

I agree 'somewhat' ohmt. However, as a pedigree hound, once I see a horse I like, I almost always, look up the horses immediately in his/her background. Nothing further than about the first three generations really count, but I want to see who they are, what they looked like if possible and what they in turn, produced. Pedigrees tell me a lot. Who they were, what they looked like, sometimes how long they lived and a lot more.

Lizzie

 

[supaspot]

I was stallion hunting last year , in my mind I was thinking palomino pinto ....the my stallion I eventually bought is solid and I wanted him as soon as I set eyes on him and that was before I knew his breeding ( was happy to see good names in there and a reserve world champion dam ) , I was very surprised when I came on here and found that some people had actually heard of him and some even own his sons , it was an even bigger surprise for me to then find he has produced a world / national champion son - what Im saying is - I bought him because of the horse he is , not because of his colour (although he does carry dilute genes) and not because of his pedigree but the fact that he has both is a bonus

 

[Jill]

A lot of people are too involved in color. Lots of people who breed miniatures should probably not be doing so... We have a lot of dilute color in our herd, and bloodlines I admire, but I hope it's easy to see that conformation comes first in our breeding and show horses. Horses are made every day and if you know what to look for, you can find great quality with the colors and bloodlines you prefer

 

[targetsmom]

Even though we breed for pintos, I don't feel we are too involved with color, but agree that some seem to be. We do not breed just for color (one of our mares is a gray pinto), but want minis that can be registered with the Pinto association for show purposes. In our case, pinto color is just one of the things we MUST have - just like EVERYONE has certain criteria when they are shopping - sex, registry(s), size, purpose, etc. Our list just happens to include pinto pattern.

I also think pedigree is very important for breeders. The conformation, movement and temperament you see in the horse in front of you (yes, of course those are of primary consideration) had to come from somewhere. Yes, you might get lucky and find a prepotent stallion or mare with an unknown pedigree, that produces National Champions for you. But I think your chances are a bit better if you know something about LOTS of the horses in their pedigree and you like what you see. For the most part we look not just at the sire, but look closely at the dam's side of the pedigree too. Was she shown? Does she have show winning siblings? And even more important, we look at any progeny from the mare or stallion. There do seem to be patterns, which tells us that pedigrees can matter.

Another thing we check in our mares is the production record of HER dam. We like to see a long and consistent production record, with some National Champions in there if possible! Not that we are selective..

 

[ohmt]

I should clarify -what I mean by people going just off of pedigree is that they base it way too much off of a name. I also like to see sires and dams and grandsires and granddams. But, i'm not concerned with names, I want to see what they looked like so I know what kind of genes may be lurking or how a young horse i'm interested in may mature. These days people post their horses for sale and 3/4 of it is bragging about names in the pedigree. That's fine to an extent, but more should be put into what the horse in front of you looks like. There are many many sons and daughters of National and World Champions who are not quality but being bred because of the names in their pedigrees.

 

[REO]

Conformation comes FIRST with me. I picture a horse I'm insterested in as solid mud brown and ask myself is it still a nice horse. No? Then NOPE! If it still wows me, then yes.

People keep saying that people who have colorful horses breed only for color without a care to conformation.

I do NOT count myself in that generalization!

Not saying my horses are perfect, as none are, but I DO give a care and put conformation as #1 no matter what the color.

 

[whitney]

Good horses come in ALL colors. Some colors are harder to find with good conformation. That just make the hunt harder.

 

[REO]

Good horses come in ALL colors. Some colors are harder to find with good conformation. That just make the hunt harder.

That is so true! I had wanted one more black pinto mare for Nort. I searched everywhere for 3 years! I only saw 3 that were good enough. One seller didn't get back to me, one mare was too tall and I bought the 3rd one!

My mare Polly

 

[Wings]

I think you have said it beautifully!

Buyers (not breeders) seem to like the colorful horses without knowing why they like them. I think that sometimes these people are seeing the "conformation" of the horse without really recognizing it. A colorful horse with poor conformation (roach back, cow-hocked, knock-kneed, no neck, bad mouth, etc) -- that doesn't look like a "big" horse in miniature is probably going to stand on the farm where it was born. But a brightly colored horse with good conformation will probably sell -- although the buyer may not know much about conformation.

Appy breeders know that some of the very horses no one "wants" because they don't have spots (the "solid" black appaloosas or the fewspots with the funny markings) -- are the very ones that will produce that LOUD color, and the ones you see on appaloosa breeding farms.

I like confirmation first, personality, then color. I hope for all of these things. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. My horses aren't perfect, and I like the loud color, but that's after the conformation. So, "breeding for color" does not necessarily mean breeding with"out" conformation in mind.

.

Very much agree with the bold. Colour WAS a consideration in a lot of my mares, but it was down the list. I just got picky and waited until what I really wanted showed up. I spent a lot of time looking for a minimal splash, I really wanted one. The ones I liked were above what I could afford, the ones I could I just didn't like. When my girl Fantasy cropped up I liked her build, I loved her movement (that is my major thing) and she also had a sweet personality. If she had been plain bay she most likely would have come home even though I was looking for a splash!

I used to joke about putting the sale photos onto photoshop and colouring in the white patches

see if you still like them!

 

[charli]

I do not breed to sell, actually I have yet to get a foal but am hopeful for 2012, but i am curious about the pedigree (what the sires and dams of my horses) look like. How do we go about finding them? Is there a way to search under registration numbers and see pics?

Thanks

 

[Eagle]

Things are a bit easier here in Italy due to the fact that all stallions MUST be approved, it will be even better if they do this for the mares too but it is better than nothing. I only breed a few mares and I am new but I admit I don't like the fact that my stallion throws nearly always sorrel pintos. It is a colour that I just don't like, the horse can have conformation, character and movement but it just isn't pretty.

I agree about always reading the pedigree, when you look at a horse you can't always see what it is hiding but if you look back a few generations you get the general idea.

Luckily colour is a personal preference and the colours that I really don't like someone else will so breeding for colour only is very limiting.

I think we should start another thread entitled " what colour do you really not like?"

Great thread