Another leading question

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to point out here that turning the rear end on you is NOT necessarily an act of aggression- in a horse this is normally a defensive thing and, considering she had just had two (well deserved ) corrections, it is totally understandable. Also, the fact that she ignored you is also understandable, as you had just been "mean" to her (well, a human had and horses are not all that discerning)

I think you need to forget about trying to "bond" with her- this is not a primary issue. It is not nearly as important as getting her respect, and having her lead without any problems.

Once you have all that in place the bonding will come, naturally, as part of the learning process.

You and she are two very, very different species- it is possible that you will form a very strong bond over the years, but just remember that she may well have started to bond with the person who owned her before you- and there was no mileage in that, for her, as she was sold!

I am not at all sure I would ever push "bonding" on a horse, not for any reason. Think about this- you form a really strong bond with an animal, you really work at it for years, then your situation changes and you sell it to someone who does things completely differently. How do you think the horse is going to feel then? Occasionally one may bond with you, but you need to hold them at arms length most of the time, and all this NH stuff can really mess a horse up, brain wise, if you are not very careful Horses are horses, they are never going to be people and I for one do not wish them to try!

I think you are doing great, btw, you just have to sort your priorities out a little more clearly.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Thank you...we were talking about that yesterday, that "bonding" can't happen without respect and that is where my priority needs to be. I've been talking with the people I bought her from, and one thing that hit, was diet change. I can't find the feed they were feeding, so we switched to the Purina Mini one and I noticed an attitude change right off. Was just thinking it was because she was in a new place and all of that, but now I wonder if it is that, even though I know, she could still have days like she had yesterday, but it just was so out of character for her. So, my husband and I will drive the hour, to the town where I know they have that feed and buy it and put her back on it. It is in 50 lbs. bags, so I doubt we will have to drive there but a couple times a year for it. Anyway, that is a possibility too. Even if that isn't it, I want to try and get her back to the diet she was on, when I first met her, as she was sweet and mellow.

 

[Renolizzie]

Another newbie. I will have had my little guy one year at the end of April. I just wanted to say that he is a very good little horse but sometimes I call him Mr. Beans because he is full of beans. Now that I have had some practice with him it isn't as nerve wracking as it was at first. It takes time to know a new species and that is okay. You sound like you are doing pretty good to me.

I don't know why he turns into Mr. Beans but he really isn't horrible and I have developed a couple of techniques and learned what I will and won't put up with. He did this thing a couple of time where he would go to shying and bucking when he was going up the driveway. I thought this isn't good. I talked to a couple of people and decided the next time I would yank on the rope sideways, throw him off balance and let him know that just isn't okay. Not so forceful as to hurt him, just to knock him off balance a bit So I did that. You could see him say "Wow, did she just do that?" We recovered and went up the driveway.

A couple of days later, we went up the driveway and he thought " I'm going to buck now". Then he thought "Nope" and he planted all four feet flat on the ground. Much better. Then we moved forwards and no more bucking up the driveway Now I know he and I can come up with solutions that work and my nerves are doing better. Hope that helps. You can earn what works for you and your horse.

It's hard when you are new to horses but it is a learning process. At least that is how I feel about it. It is hard to know what is best to do so I just read up, talk to people and do the best I can keeping my horses well being and my safety in mind.

I'm not saying to do this under your circumstances. What I am saying is as I have gotten to know my horse and learned, I have come up with solutions.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Thank you, nice to hear I am on the only newbie that ended up with nerves. LOL As for her "attitude" that I say I saw, when I put her on Purina Miniature Horse and Pony, was she started flipping her head back, when she was annoyed at us or anything...could even be her hay net. But even though, I know she could of acted like this anyway. I feel it won't hurt to put her on what she was on before. May be there is something in that feed, as the ranch owner, also upped the amount around a week ago. I was a little concerned when the head flipping started and it is getting worse. But that was as far as her attitude went, then she reared with me weeks back, and I found out, yesterday, she has reared another time with the hired hand. And the people I bought her from, had her for her whole life. Said she never reared on them, and never flipped her head. And I trust these people. They are super helpful. She's also a horse, and will test...that I know too. So I won't expect a miracle, with getting the diet back to what it was, but it may help, even if it just gets rid of the head flipping, I would be happy, as that has bothered me.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I really doubt it was the halter or the feed - she is testing you!

They learn quickly who they can get away with stuff on, nad who they cannot. She might respect your trainer, or the girl you had working her, but at some point you need to step up and do it yourself, and your trainer should be encouraging you to do so!

Also, a lot fo first time horse owners fall inot what a trainer of mine called the "Black Beauty stigma." They take a horse home, feed it cookies for 3 weeks, and think it will love them, and be a dog - doing everything they say because the horse loves them! When you think about any bond though - it stems from respect. Whether human/human, horse/horse, or human/horse. Watch horses when they meet in the field. They don't kissy face and love on each other, usually theres squaleing, nose biting, and running around - the VERY first thing they do is establish who is boss, and form a mutual respect from it, and after 2 or 3 weeks, months, or years - however long it takes, they begin to love on each other.

If I were you, I would have the trainer sit outside the round pen. Yes, you will make mistakes, but no mistakes are unfixable! EVERY horseman has made a mistake - and if they say they dont they are big fat liars! If your trainer is not encouraging you to be the trainer for your horse, thats a HUGE red flag. It's better to make mistakes and have her understand it is you she needs to listen to, than to have a trainer do it all perfectly and have your horse walk all over you.

Also remember there is no one way to train a horse. Natural horsemanship is a good tool, but it does not work for every horse. If it worked for every horse, and if training were truly a "step by step sold in a box" program that worked for 100% of horses, people would not use another method! Soemtimes you need to break the "rules" to get something done.

As for the bad days - you're a new horse owner, and so far you've only had 2 bad days! Pffft, I WISH every new horse owner only had 2 bad days - there would be much less horses on the market! Keep your chin up, once again, even serious high dollar trainers have bad days - and once again, if they say they don't they are big fat liars! Today I got my guy out for the first time in over a month (I had a non equine related severe concussion) to lunge on a lunge line (something I STRONGLY prefer over a round pen, especially for novices, theres much less of the 'just chace em' way of thinking, cause they are attached to you arm! lol) and you know what he did? Buck, and fart, and carry on like a moron for a good 10 minutes. Took me about 10 minutes to get him in the "lets work mode." Was it a "bad day?" By his standards, yup, but you know what? Tomorrows a new day! That will be a good one! Just think positively, and keep working at getting her respect. IT WILL COME!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Hmm, well, I prefer the round pen because it cannot give my horse repetitive strain injury, and I like the fact that you do not have the horse actually captive to your will- you have to find a way of bringing the horse to you, not just reeling it in and, yet again, making it do as you want. Each to their own but you would never get me going back to lunging on a rein now- I have two happy, well behaved and obedient horses working well in the pen- yes it took a little longer than using a line, but, as with leading, you get a horse that understands what it is doing, and does it willingly, not a horse that has been made to do something, yet again.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Oh, I'm sure a lot of it is testing me. We will get it together. I think part of the problem is I am having conflicting things thrown at me to do...that I need to sort out and figure out what works for Halo and I, together. I had never been shown how to do that type of free lunging, and that is why I let that other woman do it. And really, it showed Halo doesn't know how to free lunge. Which is why she started kicking out. I think it may of been too strong for her. She may be testing me, but I also know enough about Halo, to know that too much pressure, seems to scare her...not sure that is the term for it. To me, a little pressure works, if the right one is used. I may be totally wrong with that, but that is how I see Halo. I have honestly taught her to quit trying to get into my fanny pack, by just slightly pushing her face away, on the side, with just using my finger tips. I did that a couple times and she hasn't tried since.

 

[MyMiniGal]

I guess if it had been me, I would of had Halo lunge doing just a walk and trot, as we have never done any of that yet, and making her canter and run, would of been too much to me, for her, for the first time at free lunging, in the pen. But may be I am wrong on that, but thats what it looked like, is it was done too strongly, but maybe that is what was needed, for her attitude at the time?

 

[Sandee]

It's true that the faster their feet go the more time it takes for their brain to work --- at least it seems that way. If they get excited or are acting out then they are more likely to be "bad" at a canter than at a walk. Even my best easy going totally trustworthy mare will get excited after being cooped up in the stall and kick out as she trots around the round pen. I just keep her working and holler at her. She knows better and calms down after she has worked off her excess energy. But we did not get to that mutual understanding without a lot of years of working together.

Just keep doing what you think is right and correcting the "bad" behavior. Be consistant just like with a child and have patience. They do NEED you to be the Boss even if they don't act like it. You and the horse will "get there" eventually. Oh, and have some fun along the way!

 

[Helicopter]

A word of caution..........beware the whip. Some people go overboard when you put a whip in their hand. ........just saying.

 

[MyMiniGal]

I'm not sure what is going on...was emailed today, saying that just when doing a turn, to correct her trotting when she was being lead, caused her to rear, several times, with that. Finally she stopped and was very compliant. I am praying she is getting it out of her system. I will need to try and not get scared when she does this. So new to all of this. I am praying she is just having a terrible two fit, and get it out and then over with, and realize it doesn't get her anywhere. I couldn't go see her today, due to Sunday's are my Mom's day. Meaning, I spend it with my Mom. Didn't get the email, until I was home, this evening.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

She is being naughty, my mare did this on my daugter for a while. We had to get a crop and when she would rear with my daugter she would then smack her on the shoulder or chest and tell her firmly no. We now usually only have to do the circle thing. But you have to be firm with it. You make her move constantly but tapping her but with the end of the lead rope. You do this till she chews and licks.

We do this when ever diva acts up. It works for her. After she minds us and is willing again

I like the circle one better than the crop but we do use the crop for extreme times. So far the circle works.

 

[MyMiniGal]

That's for sure. LOL Naughty is a good word for it.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Youngsters rear- this is what they do, I do not even notice it now, I am afraid. If you are scared by it you are "cueing" her to do it, and that is why she is doing it more, she is actually learning to do it in exactly the same way as any other trick.

Why would someone e-mail you to tell you that anyway, I do not understand? If I were training your filly for you I would not even remark on this happening, I would just correct it quietly and carry on with my work.

Most of the problems you are having are caused by your lack of experience and all the conflicting advice you are getting on here- find one way. ONE, and stick with it for at least a month. If, at the end of the month, it is not working that is the time to try another way.

So long as you are calm and consistent, ignore the rearing (don't hit her, please, don't!) ignore the naughtiness, and just be calm and consistent and you will be fine.

Remember- ONE way of doing things!!!

 

[supaspot]

Youngsters rear- this is what they do, I do not even notice it now, I am afraid. If you are scared by it you are "cueing" her to do it, and that is why she is doing it more, she is actually learning to do it in exactly the same way as any other trick.

Why would someone e-mail you to tell you that anyway, I do not understand? If I were training your filly for you I would not even remark on this happening, I would just correct it quietly and carry on with my work.

Most of the problems you are having are caused by your lack of experience and all the conflicting advice you are getting on here- find one way. ONE, and stick with it for at least a month. If, at the end of the month, it is not working that is the time to try another way.

So long as you are calm and consistent, ignore the rearing (don't hit her, please, don't!) ignore the naughtiness, and just be calm and consistent and you will be fine.

Remember- ONE way of doing things!!!

totally agree with you ,Ive found over the years that most problems with youngsters are caused by the handler mis-understanding a situation and/or the body language , of the horse , I hope the poster takes your advice , I like your common sense attitude

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Right now, the ranch owner is still getting the bigger horses to get use to her, so that eventually, she can be out with a couple of them, and have some play time. I wish we could afford another mini and have it in with her. An older one, I think would be great with her.

Ugh, no, please do NOT put her in with big horses. Ever. They can and will hurt her. Maybe not deliberately, but even a kick in play can kill a Mini.

 

[MyMiniGal]

I wasn't the one with her, when she reared, the last few times. She reared with me several weeks back, and yes, it scared me, but I am trying to work through that. And yes, I am very new to this, and still learning. The ranch owner was wanting me to see a technique with something and was having someone else lead Halo, and was taking video when the rearing happened. I don't know how they corrected it, as I haven't seen the video yet. But with her being into natural horsemanship, I would guess, they just let Halo come out of the rear and think about it. From my understanding, is she was wanting to trot, while walking and so they were doing the turning method when Halo said, No, that isn't what I want to do, and reared. So I was told after she reared once, they did the turn again, until she stopped rearing. Like I said, I wasn't there, and haven't seen the video. I very anxious to see it. I trust the owner/trainer and like her very much. I do feel she is trying to help me. So far, anything I have tried with Halo, I've been told to by her. If I read something here, I am running it by her first. Not that I don't trust people here, I do. It is just I am working with her, and like Rabbitfizz is saying, stick with one way. When Halo reared with me, weeks ago, it startled and scared me, but I let her come down from the rear, made her take a couple steps back, then we just stood there and looked at eachother. She then came to me head down. When she had started to walk to me like that, I put my hand out, with my palm down, and just her come to me, and when she got to me, I talked softly to her and loved on her. I kept my composer then, it is just since then, I get a bit nervous, when I try and do anything with her. The trainer doesn't think it is just my nerves with Halo. I am still grieving losing my Dad, and she feels that my feelings are all mixed up, even subconsciously. It has just shocked me that Halo has started doing this, this bad. She has been pretty mellow otherwise.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Hang in there.

Horses are like children, they test their boundaries when they are young and sometimes are by our standards 'naughty'. You sound like you are doing great, thinking things thro and not over reacting is the key. Rabbitsfizz is right about using one method in the sense that you should not mix and match, changing your response to an action every other time. There is nothing wrong with asking for ideas and opinions but you must sort thro them and decide which ones feel like they make sense to you and then use one consistently until you either get a resolution to the problem (in which case that will remain you 'method' with that horse) or decide it is not working and try the next logical idea.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Thank you...not sure if I am reading Halo right or not...but a softer approach with anything, seems to me, works better with her. So I definitely wouldn't hit her...tap her may be, as I have had to that with the stick, to keep her from crowding me, but when I mean tap, I mean it has just been a soft tap, just a reminder to move your butt over. LOL The trotting while wanting to walk her, just started. Whatever method they were using, due to I am new to this, I will probably just try doing a "whoa and make her take a few steps back". That has seemed to work with her getting ahead of me, or I even just kind of wagged the stick in front of her face. Not to hit her, but to get her to realize to go no farther. But that I did when she was just getting ahead, while walking. This trotting is new to me. I was surprised she did it the other day, and I think what it is, is she has been let out into the round pen to run off energy, and she now knows the round pen, when before she didn't and could careless about it. I am sure anxious to see exactly what happened on that video. Don't know if I am right with this, but to me, if an action causes something like rearing, if there is another way to get the job done that doesn't cause it, that should be the one to go with, even if you have to sort of change and let go of exactly what you had in your head. If it gets you to the same place, without stress, to me that would be the way to go. I'm not meaning they were causing her stress, but now we know what they were doing, cause Halo to rear. So I will try a different approach, which the trainer has told me she wants me to do. She know's I am not ready to do a movement that we KNOW causes rearing. That isn't to say Halo won't rear when we try something else. I hope I am making sense. Hard to write out things, sometimes. LOL

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I really would not make a big thing out of the rearing, as I said it is normal behaviour for a young horse and I just work round it and then it stops. The turning her is a nice, passive response and, if you do it every time with no fuss and no other reaction, it will work (you will have to trust us on this!

) I am not convinced that anything is actually causing her rearing, I think it is just a small resistance and high spirits combined and I think if you just treat it with quiet consistency she will stop doing it. It is a bit like a kid with a scab- pick it and it will never get better