Winter Feeding-Hay Rations

[shelterwood]

Hi all...

I have a question about hay, obviously. My 2 mares, who are 40", are definitely putting on some pounds right now. This is more noticeable this year than last as they are more mature, being coming 3 and 4, and in better condition coming into the harsh weather. I have decent second cut timothy/grass mix hay, not stemmy, fresh, green hay. I have been giving them in general 1.5 flakes each per feeding, making a total of 3-4 smallish flakes total at each feeding twice per day. The only time they get additional is if the temp is single digits or below, or if they are wet from rain/sleet. The other night it was -10 degrees below zero, so they got a little extra.

I give 1-2 flakes in a hay rack, then 1-2 flakes in a slow feeder bag across the shelter, so they can work slowly on that over time. I know ideally I should be weighing their rations, but I just haven't gotten a scale, and to be honest, they were so thin when I got them that I hadn't worried. Now they are REALLY furry, but even my non-horsey neighbor commented on their "girth". They also get the suggested amount of Purina mini feed twice per day for their estimated weight and activity level. They are both in training to be driving horses, but get little actual exercise right now with the weather and daylight restrictions.

My main question is if I limit their hay further, it seems they won't be getting enough roughage to keep their digestive system healthy, or to keep the furnace going. I've seen people comment on here that they "free feed" hay. Anyone do this or have comments on how they manage their easy keepers this way? Should I cut out the concentrates/complete feed, or just cut that back some? I read somewhere that it's "ok if your horses are a little overweight going into the winter, use that time to slowly take pounds off", as they loose weight just staying warm, but it seems this is not exactly the time to be limiting roughage as the little guys are struggling to stay warm.

Now to take into consideration, I live in a VERY cold place, sometimes coldest in the nation. My mares live in a 24 hour turnout with run-in, so do get some low grade (and I mean LOW grade) exercise throughout the day, and are handwalked at least twice a week for exercise and change of scenery, but little cardio this time of year. I will try to snap some photos of them tomorrow to post for opinions. I really don't want to be that person who loves their minis to death!! Any advice would be appreciated.

Katie

 

[AnnaC]

I am sure you will get plenty of replies and help with your questions, but personally, I would never decrease hay during the winter months. Also your 'non horsey' friend may just be looking at their furry winter coats and not getting close enough to them to be able to comment on the body condition underneath!

Would love to see some pictures.

 

[shelterwood]

Thanks Anna! Yes my neighbor probably was mostly reading the fur and not the body condition, but I am having a hard time feeling ribs. Now I don't know if that's in part due to all the fur, or fat, or some of both. Neither has the "apple butt" thing going on yet, or any other weird fat deposits anywhere, or cresty necks, but I'm still thinking they look a bit.....rotund. These are my first minis/ponies, and I come from the world of stock horses, so to my brain they look good!! But I know I'm dealing with a whole different beast than Quarter horses built like tanks, and don't want them ending up with laminitis or any other complication of being overweight.

My gut (ha!) tells me that hay should not be terribly restricted in the winter months. Perhaps I'm overestimating their weight at 400lbs?? I'll have to do the formula thingy. Would 400lbs seem too much for 40" ponies, of the non-refined type? Maybe they are getting too much of the Purina feed???

Katie

Edited to add:

I did the math.

Formula 1.) girth is 56"=412lbs

Fromula 2.) girthxgirthxlength/300=roughly 500lbs

So my estimate of 400-450lbs is not off by far. This means, going by the 2% body weight model, that each mare needs 9lbs of feed per day. Right?? So ideally 9lbs per feeding combined hay and concentrates split among the 2 horses. Guess I need a scale......

 

[targetsmom]

I highly recommend a scale, but then I don't use it for every feeding, just to check every once in awhile. But I do MEASURE the hay at every feeding, based on the scale weight and the horses weight, estimated by my vet from girth and length. For example, when I stuff a 10 pound Strongid 2X square white container full of MY hay it weighs about one pound. So my horses get fed multiples of a Stongid container. Mine also get grain, and for the YOUNGER ones you want the grain: hay ratio > 50:50, (more like 60:40 or 70:30) but for mature horses, some can do well on no grain at all, depending on the protein content of your hay. Right now our smallest mini (coming 2 year old) is getting the most grain, but the least amount of hay among our 10 minis.

In general, I agree with not decreasing hay in winter in the north, but if the horses really are too fat because they are getting too much hay, then a slight reduction shouldn't hurt - as long as it is at least 2% of body weight.

 

[chandab]

I don't limit hay in winter, but did want to point out that the Purina mini and pony feed, does have a minimum feeding level listed below the main chart and I think it says something like absolute minimum of .3#/100# (I think, you'll need to check the tag), so perhaps you can reduce their mini and pony feed, if needed.

I have a scale, and my 36-38" minis weigh in from #325-#375 at decent weight, depends on the individual horse.

 

[disneyhorse]

I wouldn't adjust their feed in the winter... The hair they grow can be very deceptive.

I think your guess of 400 pounds could be accurate for 40" ponies.

Weighing food is ALWAYS a good idea. It will give you the best direction if you're feeding too much or too little. 2% of their body weight in hay is a good goal.

It's easier to tone up your fat driving horses in the spring than it would be to put pounds on when they're in training.

Pictures may help us, but honestly if it's that cold I'm betting they've got some massively thick coats. It's hard to figure out body condition even when running hands over those coats....

 

[disneyhorse]

When they don't have thick coats, no matter if it's a quarter horse or an Arab, you can judge their body condition by looking at fat deposits and seeing/feeling ribs and hips and spines, too...

 

[Jean_B]

You live in a cold environment and I would NEVER EVER restrict hay when it's cold. I wish I could find the graph that showed how much you should increase hay, depending on the drop in temperature. I used to live in northwest Wisconsin - and I would often DOUBLE the amount of hay on those cold nights. Roughage is what stokes the fire and produces heat in the horse's system...not grain. Free choice is even better if you can provide it in a way that it isn't going to get trampled into the mud/manure/snow.

 

[shelterwood]

Thanks Jean,

I too feel that limiting hay seems counter-intuitive in the cold months. I had read that somewhere-that if your horses are slightly overweight going into winter it's OK because that's a good time to slowly take pounds off, but I think it would be so easy to be wrong about body condition under all that fur, and limit too much. I'm going to look for a scale today so I can see where I am at with my feed. My guess is that I'm not too far off.

With the slow feeder bag I have, I can keep hay available almost all the time, and it stays off the ground with little waste. So in a way it is free choice.

If you could find that chart that would be really interesting. I might search the internet for something like that. Thanks!

Katie

 

[Eagle]

Do any of you use slow feeding haynets outside? It has turned really cold so I was wondering if they are a good idea?

 

[shelterwood]

Do any of you use slow feeding haynets outside? It has turned really cold so I was wondering if they are a good idea?

Eagle,

My slow feeder bag can hang anywhere. I use it inside my run-in, but have clipped it outside on sunny cold days when the run-in is actually colder than being in the sun. Here's the link: http://www.busyhorse.com/busygrandeslow.html

Katie

 

[sfmini]

I would never cut hay, I was always taught to supplement the hay with grain and if the hay keeps them in good weight then they don't need the grain, so cut back on the grain.

We did have an eye opener last night. We are trying to figure out how to cut our feed bill which is horrid right now and decided to switch to Strategy which is more expensive per bag but you feed less. We started just guessing rations, and ended feeding 50# a day and that was just the minis!! OUCH! Um, while Judy was unloading grain last night, I settled in and read the label and said oooo we are so over feeding this grain so dug out the scale and did the math then started the math with the grain we are feeding the big horses and we are going to switch them as well and this will cut our bill by quite a bit and give them a higher quality grain.

Oh, and no more frozen sweet feed!

 

[Flying minis]

We "almost" free feed hay, I have a round bale in a bale feeder, and the minis are on it for 10-12 hours a day (all the daylight hours). When they come in at night they get 3 cups each of sweet feed. They are hairy monsters, but I'm fairly confident they aren't too overweight - I know I can take off that weight with work in March / April, and we get very cold here. I agree with the other posters, feel for condition - with lots of hair, it's pretty much impossible to tell by looking how heavy they may be. I'd much rather take the weight off in the spring, than have them underweight or have them get cold during our coldest times (we have been pretty warm this winter, most nights in the mid to low teens, but Jan / Feb tend to have long periods of time at 0 or lower).

The first year I had my minis they free fed all winter on a round bale, I thought they'd be porkers in the spring, when I clipped, one was at good weight, and one was too thin! I also believe what a vet once told me - horses will tend to eat less when they have free feed - once they realize the feed will be there, they "graze" as they normally would, rather than just standing at the feeder and eating. I've seen that myself. Whenever we have a new horse, or have one that's been stalled for a while and put them in the field with the hay feeder, they'll stand and eat nonstop for a day or so, then they realize the food's going to continue to be there, and they start "grazing" more naturally.

 

[happy appy]

I feed round bale hay from a round bale feeder but I also use the slow feed bale buddy. I have found that the wastage from the minis pulling the hay out of the feeder was terrible. Now with the slow feed "net" over the bale first then it placed into the round bale feeder I have no mess or wastage. Mind you, I had to cut the legs off the metal feeder to get it low enough to the ground so that they could eat in the first place. Works like a top though. Once they get down to the last 1/4 or so of hay I dump the net out and they just eat the rest until it's gone. If we are getting any amount of rain/snow then I will put a board over top and attach it to the top of the feeder. Keeps things dry and is easy for me to do alone.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I agree hay is excellent for cold temps so defintelly don't cut it out. I don't give free choice hay because my minis are easy keepers and their getting fed alfalfa/timothy, and I have 2 just on hay alone and the other one is getting .6 of a lb a day in grain with hay. All 3 are doing great but we aren't suffering with severe cold temps so far either so I may have to double their hay amounts once winter sets in. I would prefer to give more hay then supplementing them with grain unless they absoutely need it especially with the winter.

Unless your horses are in hard training, are jr or sr horses, or broodmares they just don't need the grain, they need forage. So if you feel your ponys are a lil chubby then cut back on the grain. The mini feed doesn't have alot of fat in it anyways so its not going to help regulate their body temp like hay will. But they will still need those minerals so get yourself a mineral block to supplement them.

 

[Jill]

For weight gain, I have had great luck with senior complete feeds. In a situation with a sick horse, I did use a high calorie supplement which was syringed into her mouth (see Nich Quick Start @ Jeffers Equine). For keeping them warm in extreme winter conditions -- or what passes for such in Virginis (smile) -- we just dole out more hay than usual. That's worked well for us. We've yet to stall in snowy weather but make sure all horses have access to shelter. They go in and out as they please.

 

[Matt73]

Ditto what most have said on here; I feed Gro 'n Win, a 32% protein ration balancer that's meant to compliment forage. I would never restrict hay. My guys get 4 flakes of soft, grassy hay (over 4 feedings) and 1/2 lb. Gro 'n Win/day over two feedings...am and pm (1 lb. for my two weanlings). None of my guys are fat by any means, but they all have a nice layer covering their ribs and a nice, filled-out top line

 

[DunPainted]

You live in a cold environment and I would NEVER EVER restrict hay when it's cold. I wish I could find the graph that showed how much you should increase hay, depending on the drop in temperature. I used to live in northwest Wisconsin - and I would often DOUBLE the amount of hay on those cold nights. Roughage is what stokes the fire and produces heat in the horse's system...not grain. Free choice is even better if you can provide it in a way that it isn't going to get trampled into the mud/manure/snow.

Thanks for the reminder, Jean!!! I used to free-feed my mini herd in NE Wisconsin, but having a single horse has me second-guessing myself. Been feeding Jack three times a day -- with extra hay at night. Folks are giving me grief about him getting chubby, but methinks his winter coat is getting fuller. (He gets 2 or 3 ONE MILE walks a day). Hmmm, I wonder who will lose more weight by spring?!

 

[GrullaBlue]

I'm in Wisconsin, and I don't limit hay to anyone all winter. Yes, my minis get looking like they're pregnant with twins, but once spring rolls around and they start losing all that winter fur, they don't look as bad. I don't use hay nets or anything, I just let them go at it. It's not a rich hay, it's first crop, a little stemmy, a little weedy here and there, but it provides them with enough roughage to keep them heavier in the wintertime, and help keep them warm. I have one old Arab mare, I do limit her hay, just because if she gets too much at one time, she wastes half of it. But she also gets senior grain and beet pulp, and my feeding schedule for her works just fine, she gets enough, without all that wasted hay. Unlike my minis, who eat about every last piece, so I don't worry about them.

We grow our own hay, so thankful I don't have to buy it, and be quite as concerned about waste. But my old mare gets richer hay...and I don't want her wasting that!

Angie