Why test for color?

[Kawgirl]

I can understand why you would want to test for the lethal white gene or something that could cause health problems, but why do so many of you test for color? Why not just be happy that you have a beautiful horse no matter what color it is? And I especially don't understand why you would test a very young foal. If it turns out to not be breeding quality, why does it matter what it's genetic color is? I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just don't undestand why it's so important to know a horses genetic color.

Color is the last thing that I consider when choosing a horse, there are so many other more important characteristics I look for.

 

[Mona]

I mostly color test out of curiosity. Yes, I am VERY happy to get any live foal, and yes, I have color tested a filly just this year that is pet only and won't be bred, but it is nice to know exactly what color genes they hold. I feel this helps people learn to recognise colors correctly. It is money coming from my pocket to color test my horses, so if it makes me happy, or satisfies my curiosity, or helps me to learn, then in my opinion, it is money well spent, whether they will be bred or not.

 

[~Amanda~]

I mostly color test out of curiosity. Yes, I am VERY happy to get any live foal, and yes, I have color tested a filly just this year that is pet only and won't be bred, but it is nice to know exactly what color genes they hold. I feel this helps people learn to recognise colors correctly. It is money coming from my pocket to color test my horses, so if it makes me happy, or satisfies my curiosity, or helps me to learn, then in my opinion, it is money well spent, whether they will be bred or not.

I agree completely. Color testing can also be useful to determine the color of the parents. If your 'black' stallion and your bay mare have a buckskin, it can tell you that the 'black' is actually a smoky black, for example. Also, it is a lot of fun.

 

[targetsmom]

I am in the (except for LWO) "I just like to know" category. I know it might get changed at the registry, but I like to be able to say what color the horse is when I send in the registration application. It also helps when you are advertising. Looks can be very deceiving!

Now, I admit I am not so curious that I have tested our NON-breeding minis for LWO or anything else. Ruby and Cowboy are very likely LWO+ but won't be bred, so it doesn't matter.

 

[eagles ring farm]

We test mostly for advertising purposes I don't want to misrepresent what I am selling

and only having bred mini's for 5 years now I can get stumped at what color a foal will mature

at. So it gives me piece of mind that if I say a horse is a certain color they are that. And of course there is always that curiosity. But yes we spent $75.00 to determine if our filly was truely a silver buckskin this year but it is only fair that I do what I can to tell someone what they are buying and it is nice to give them proof.

The same reason we DNA & Parent qualify our foals which is an additional $41. So everyone knows there will be no question or confusion down the road when and if they would like to breed them.

We also register AMHR,AMHA & PtHA when possible, nothing is ever pending when we sell a foal.

We have not color tested all of them only if there is a question of it could be this or that.

I agree conformation, temperment and health is the over all important factors but when I advertise a color I don't want someone getting a horse of a different color a year after they purchase. Color should be a last consideration but it is often icing on a beautiful cake.

Color testing this years filly told us her Dam carries silver (her sire was a silver dapple)as we do know our stallion does not.

Of course this is our choice of how we want to do things, others have their own way. None are right none are wrong just pure choice. And for sure if they and the mare are healthy nothing else matters when they are born.

 

[Songcatcher]

Its kind of like shaking a package before Christmas. Gives you an idea of what you might get.

Beautiful horses come in lots of different colors. So, by color testing, it helps get the color you want when breeding as well as other characteristics, which can't be tested for.

Pardon me for saying so, but your question sounds as though you are putting down people for testing for color. Kind of like asking, "Why would anyone want turnip greens when spinich is just as good for you?"

 

[horsehug]

I just want to say that it is wonderful to want good conformation first and foremost.

But having said that..... there is certainly nothing wrong with having different tastes and preferences in color of horses also.

I certainly do and am certainly not ashamed of it!!

And I love to find out if my horses might carry certain colors and/or genes that I prefer to breed for!!!!

On the other hand I am always glad there are those out there who do not care what color their horse is, so long as it is a good horse.

The solid sorrels and silver dapples and bays and others that are not my particular preference, need good homes too!!

So variety in color taste is good........all the way from solid more common colors....... to the more unusual, rare and flashy that some prefer.

Susan O.

 

[~Lisa~]

If it turns out to not be breeding quality, why does it matter what it's genetic color is? I'm not trying to offend anyone,

Not implying this pertains to anyone on this thread who has already answered or will answer but the reality is more so in minis then big horses (IMO) that often times sadly in the eyes of many color alone will make a horse breeding quality

 

[shelly]

I test for the I WANT TO KNOW WHAT COLOR they are!!! reason. I had a hunch that Stormy was homozygous tobiano as his sire always threw color but was never tested. So now I know positively that his sire is in fact homozygous also! I had been wondering if Trixie was a red roan or buckskin as her sire was blue roan...now I know she is buckskin as she is black based. I HATE GUESSING...now I KNOW!!!

 

[Charlotte]

why do so many of you test for color?

Because it's interesting!!

For all the reasons stated by Mona and others above and because it is a learning experience for me. I find it very interesting how genetics/inheritance works in colors and in all aspects of animal breeding.

I have found over the years that foals very often exhibit the characteristics of the grandparents more than the parents. This seems often to apply to colors too. But if I don't know for sure what colors/patterns a horse is carrying then I don't have any way to come to that conclusion. I have been SO excited to see all of the color testing coming available.

And it is amazing to me that a horse can appear to be one color and genetically be something totally different.

I've also seen color testing raise a red flag as to parentage.

Charlotte

 

[Dona]

If you aren't "into" color genetics, or breeding to sell.....then there is no need to test for color. It's not important to you.

But fact is, most people who test for color, do so because they are breeding to sell (and want to give ALL pertinent information of the horse to prospective buyers) or...they are breeding for specific colors or patterns in their own breeding program.

And I wish people would understand that those who breed for specific colors or patterns do NOT disregard conformation in order to do so. Conformation always comes first! Any respectable color breeder knows this! You start with horses that have good/great conformation, THEN add color.

As far as wanting to test for color.... It's really no different than wanting to know parentage of a horse, or it's show background, or size of foals it's produced/thrown, etc. The more you know about a horse add's to it's saleability, and helps in making decisions on who to breed to. No....color is NOT first & foremost in importance when breeding horses. Of course not. But, if you are breeding for specific colors or patterns....it IS a factor you need to consider.

Then there are those who just love color genetics (whether they breed or not) and love learning everything they can about them. It really IS interesting!

 

[Kawgirl]

I'm not trying to put anyone down for testing. I'm just wondering why so many do it. With the high cost of raising minis and registering them, it just seems to me that it would just be an unnecessary expense. And I do agree that it seems to be much more of a mini thing than with the big horses. I don't know of anyone who raises big horses that test for color. And I guess I would rather be surprised than try to predict the foal's color.

 

[Willow Tree Miniatures]

I AGREE WITH THE OTHER POSTS... FOR ME IT IS JUST FUN... I TESTED MY CREMELLO STALLION TO SEE IF HE CARRIES THE SILVER GENE... AND YES HE DOES,. WHICH IF I HAD KNOWN THAT I MIGHT NOT HAVE PURCHASED HIM... SILVER IS NOT MY FAVORITE COLOR AT ALL... BUT A SILVER BUCKSKIN IS PRETTY NICE. I HAD A SILVER BUCKSKIN FILLY THIS YEAR (NOT YET TESTED). YOU CAN'T SEE THAT HE CARRIES SILVER... BUT IF YOU GET AN ODD COLORED FOAL SOMETIMES YOU WONDER WHERE DID THAT COME FROM... I JUST THINK IT IS PURE FUN.

ON THE OTHER HAND IF YOU ARE SELLING A HORSE THAT YOU SAY IS A CERTAIN SPECIAL COLOR OR PATTERN, LIKE A SMOKEY CREME OR HOMOZYGOUS OR LWO POSITIVE I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE PROOF OTHER THAT WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE. I WAS SOLD A HOMOZYGOUS STALLION... NO TEST... I DIDN'T KNOW YOU SHOULD HAVE A TEST...

AND THE LAST FOAL I GOT OUT OF HIM WAS SOLID... SO THEN I HAD HIM TESTED. HE WAS NOT HOMOZYGOUS AND I SOLD HIM. I WANTED PINTO FOALS. $25 WOULD HAVE SAVED ME A LOT OF BAD LANGUAGE...

SUE FROM CHAMPAGNE WISHES BOUGHT A FOAL FROM ME THIS YEAR AND SHE WANTED HIM TESTED TO SEE IF HE CARRIED THE CHAMPAGNE GENE... SHE WANTED A CHAMPANGE HORSE... $25 WAS A SMALL PRICE TO PAY TO KNOW FOR SURE SHE IS GETTING WHAT SHE PAID FOR. SHE IS OVER A THOUSAND MILES AWAY... THE TEST WAS POSITIVE FOR THE GENE.

I THINK SOME OF THE "COLOR" POSTS ON LIL B'S ARE THE MOST FUN TO LOOK AT. I ESPECIALLY LOVE TO LOOK AT HORSES THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED AND TRY TO GUESS WHAT I THINK THEY ARE TO SEE IF I AM RIGHT. A GREAT EXAMPLE WOULD BE PACIFIC PINTOS... JOANNE TESTS HER HORSES... VERY INFORMATIVE AND FUN, FUN, FUN!!! JUST MAKES ME JEALOUS...

 

[Shaladar]

I color test because it is fun.

Coming from big horses, it was usually obvious what color the foal was at birth. Minis are totally different...LOL

What really started me though, was a very bay/brown foal out of a mare that appeared to be a liver chestnut (and was registered chestnut) and the sire is a very obvious sorrel. The first foal these two had appeared to be a black Silver dapple. Then here comes the bay/brown foal. Interestingly,(to me ) both parents carry the silver gene, the second foal, the bay/brown, does not. Also, based on the test results, the mare can never have a red based foal. So she is not a liver chestnut.

I also test to see who is carrying the Silver gene.

I have a mare that even though I have had her tested for almost everything, she carries everything she was tested for, so I still don't know what color she is...LOL

I don't really care what color they are (although I favor solid chestnuts/sorrels and bays) but I just like to know.

Sue

 

[chandab]

Mare's like this one:

are a really good reason to test. Her dam is buckskin dun, her sire is listed on papers as a white leopard.

This mare is homozygous for black... So, she is not palomino as we assumed when she was born and came out looking golden with white mane and tail. I tested her for red factor (determines black or red base), agouti and cream; she is homozygous for black, has one copy of agouti (bay) and NO cream. So, she is a silver bay. And, I'm pretty sure she has dun, so that make her silver bay dun. [Oh, and based on her results, we are calculating that her sire is a silver black leopard (his spots are hard to determine color in the only picture I've ever seen of him.]

 

[Songcatcher]

I'm not trying to put anyone down for testing. I'm just wondering why so many do it. With the high cost of raising minis and registering them, it just seems to me that it would just be an unnecessary expense.

Using that reasoning, why bother to register them. I mean a good horse is a good horse, regardless of who its parents are. Registration plus DNA testing is a total of $61 in AMHA plus another $20 to register in AMHR. Why do it? Because it gives you more information on the horse and makes it more valuable.

And I do agree that it seems to be much more of a mini thing than with the big horses. I don't know of anyone who raises big horses that test for color. And I guess I would rather be surprised than try to predict the foal's color.

Got to disagree with you on it being a Mini thing. Try visiting this site: http://equine-color.info/phpBB3/index.php And you will find far more big horse people than Mini people.

By the way, there is a new test available called the VeriSNP which tests for everything at once. Costs $40 and will give you the answer to LWO, Tobiano, Red/Black, Agouti, Cream, SB1, Silver, and Champagne, plus a number of diseases associated with mostly Quarter Horses and Arabians. You can get more information on it at: http://www.dnadiagnostics.com/animal_genetics.html

 

[Becky]

By the way, there is a new test available called the VeriSNP which tests for everything at once. Costs $40 and will give you the answer to LWO, Tobiano, Red/Black, Agouti, Cream, SB1, Silver, and Champagne, plus a number of diseases associated with mostly Quarter Horses and Arabians. You can get more information on it at: http://www.dnadiagnostics.com/animal_genetics.html

That's really interesting, Freeland. I hadn't heard of that. I wonder if the other genetic testing labs will follow suite? That would save a lot of $$$ and I'm all for that! Plus, you wouldn't leave out any possible color/pattern that has a test available.

 

[Sue_C.]

I don't know of anyone who raises big horses that test for color.

Many of the large breeds who are solid coloured don't require colour testing, because breed stays within breed. They breed true to their breed standards, but as the miniature horse is only a size "breed", it is an amalgamation of all breeds incompassed into one. Nowhere else, within a breed would you ever find the amazing array of colours and patterns than in our minis.

That said, I do have friends who, when they breed their buckskin quarterhorse stallion to their dun mares...do test for colour because the colours can look so similar.

 

[Joanne]

As a breeder we provide our testing results to our buyers and can prove that what we are saying about the horse has scientific basis, not just stating "he should be homozygous for tobiano"!

As a buyer of horses I REALLY appreciate it that the seller has done the testing. Often this is the biggest negotiation I have with a buyer. I like their horse, but they have no idea what it is and if it carries LWO or not. Sometimes this is obvious, sometimes, especially with toveros, it is not obvious.

I may have a specific place I want this horse to fit into my breeding program and knowing if it is lethal or not is important to me.

I do feel that having them tested increases their value. As does PQ.

I also agree that not every mini needs to have all these additional tests if they are just pet quality.

 

[~Lisa~]

I also agree that not every mini needs to have all these additional tests if they are just pet quality.

I believe that was the OP comment since pet quality is seemingly so very subjective