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Mini Paradise

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Need some suggestions on what has worked for you that helps get rid of a big, low belly in a yearling. I am currently feeding my yearling: mini scoop of soaked beet pulp (measured out dry), 2 cups of Strategy and 1 cup of alfalfa pellets. He was eating grass hay but his belly was getting lower and lower so I took him off of it until I can find alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay. He is on a regular deworming program and his condition overall is good. He is also kept on dry lot which is best for him, and I don't have a really grassy paddock for him because of the drought. His belly is just not "tight" looking. I am taking him to Nationals this year. I'd appreaciate any suggestions and tips.
 
Often that low tummy is from insufficient food, not too much of it. The best yearlings I've ever seen come from a farm where they get as much high-quality grass hay as they can eat along with plenty of soaked beet pulp and some junior feed. She figured if they were looking like starving waifs with swollen stomachs, more food was the answer, and she was right. Worked on the two I've had as yearlings!

Leia
 
Are you feeding that amount once or twice a day.? How does his topline look? How tall is he?Remember he is growing and needs a lot more protein and feed than a mature horse. If he is not wormy then slowly over the next week start feeding him more grain. If you are home during the day ,you might try also feeding him lunch. Good Luck. What are you showing in at Nationals?
 
Can you post a photo'? It is hard to say without seeing the horse, it would be better to see him in person but a photo is better than nothing.
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Are you feeding that amount once or twice a day.? How does his topline look? How tall is he?Remember he is growing and needs a lot more protein and feed than a mature horse. If he is not wormy then slowly over the next week start feeding him more grain. If you are home during the day ,you might try also feeding him lunch. Good Luck. What are you showing in at Nationals?
I feed him twice a day of course. I wasn't sure if feeding three times a day would make it worse or better so just stuck with twice for now. He measures about 31.5". He will be showing in Yearling and Amateur halter classes. I took him last year as a weanling and at that time he had a milk belly but still placed in the top ten. I just really want to make him look better for this year Nationals. Also, his mother has a large barrel and rather large herself. Is it possible that he inherited her shape?
 
Can you post a photo'? It is hard to say without seeing the horse, it would be better to see him in person but a photo is better than nothing.
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I just went out and took some pictures. He is very dirty in the pics. He is a little pig pen and of course mainly white in color. Argh white based horses.

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I'm going to say what i would do if he were mine, it may or may not change things. First I would worm him (a 5 day purge might be in order) then I would look at the hay and decide if it is too stemmy. If I thought it was leafy enough and not coarse I would start weighing it at 2% of his body weight and then I would split it into as many feedings as I could manage in a day. Even better would be if I could make him eat it slow so he didn't have large amounts of hay sitting in his gut all the time but didn't have an empty system either. On top of that I would feed Brewers yeast (or probiotics) to help his digestion be more efficient. It looks to me like he is not processing feed efficiently.
 
I'm going to say what i would do if he were mine, it may or may not change things. First I would worm him (a 5 day purge might be in order) then I would look at the hay and decide if it is too stemmy. If I thought it was leafy enough and not coarse I would start weighing it at 2% of his body weight and then I would split it into as many feedings as I could manage in a day. Even better would be if I could make him eat it slow so he didn't have large amounts of hay sitting in his gut all the time but didn't have an empty system either. On top of that I would feed Brewers yeast (or probiotics) to help his digestion be more efficient. It looks to me like he is not processing feed efficiently.

Ok now that makes sense. What wormer do you recommend I use? Also, hay is the problem. I am thinking of going with either alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay (which ever I find first and if I find it). He was eating coastal, bermuda and other grass mixed hay but that was causing him to have a really big and wide belly so I took him off of it. Do you recommend alfalfa based hay for him if he is not digesting right? Also, where can I find Brewers yeast? In the past I tried using Probias but that didn't work either.
 
If you can't get alfalfa hay ,you could try alfalfa cubes,and soak them. My show horses get alfalfa hay and no coastal during show season. How much exercise is he getting?
 
Most tack/feed stores will carry Brewers Yeast. I don't have a problem with any grass hay per say, they just need to be leafy not coarse. If all you can find is coarse hay (it happens some years, I expect this year to be one of them here) then feed him that but in much smaller quantities and round it out with beat pulp and a little alfalfa much like you are (you can use pellets or cubes if the hay is not available but soak them to soften them... well, with the pellets I moisten them, not soupy unless the horse knows and likes them that way or you need to increase the water intake) . I wouldn't deny him hay altogether tho, he needs the chewing and the fiber to keep his gut happy. Try spreading it out in smaller feedings so he doesn't have a lot of bulk to digest at once. As to wormer choice, it occurs to me to wonder about tape worm and if you have had a fecal count done. Perhaps before dumping a bunch of extra chemicals into a gut that already looks to be struggling with proper processing it would make sense to talk to your vet about doing a fecal test. They are as a rule pretty inexpensive and certainly better for the horse to have fewer things to upset his system if he doesn't need them. If the vet finds a heavy worm burden you can then deal with it and if not you would be glad to skip that step. Another thing you might consider (I have no experience with the product myself but others seem to have very good results) if all else seems to be unhelpful, is a product called body builder. It by all accounts will help to put weight on as muscle not fat, thus give him that 'bloom' you want to see in the ring.
 
If you can't get alfalfa hay ,you could try alfalfa cubes,and soak them. My show horses get alfalfa hay and no coastal during show season. How much exercise is he getting?
I don't like using alfalfa cubes. They take longer to soak than pellets. But, I was able to find straight alfalfa this morning and it will be delivered tomorrow. Whew, I was worried about finding hay around here. At this time he is being lunged every evening until I can get a round pen. He will then be exercised twice a day for 5 days out of the week.
 
Most tack/feed stores will carry Brewers Yeast. I don't have a problem with any grass hay per say, they just need to be leafy not coarse. If all you can find is coarse hay (it happens some years, I expect this year to be one of them here) then feed him that but in much smaller quantities and round it out with beat pulp and a little alfalfa much like you are (you can use pellets or cubes if the hay is not available but soak them to soften them... well, with the pellets I moisten them, not soupy unless the horse knows and likes them that way or you need to increase the water intake) . I wouldn't deny him hay altogether tho, he needs the chewing and the fiber to keep his gut happy. Try spreading it out in smaller feedings so he doesn't have a lot of bulk to digest at once. As to wormer choice, it occurs to me to wonder about tape worm and if you have had a fecal count done. Perhaps before dumping a bunch of extra chemicals into a gut that already looks to be struggling with proper processing it would make sense to talk to your vet about doing a fecal test. They are as a rule pretty inexpensive and certainly better for the horse to have fewer things to upset his system if he doesn't need them. If the vet finds a heavy worm burden you can then deal with it and if not you would be glad to skip that step. Another thing you might consider (I have no experience with the product myself but others seem to have very good results) if all else seems to be unhelpful, is a product called body builder. It by all accounts will help to put weight on as muscle not fat, thus give him that 'bloom' you want to see in the ring.
I was able to find straight alfalfa hay this morning. The supplier said it is more leafy than steamy and will be delivering it tomorrow. All the horses are on a 7 week worming schedule and I rotate wormers each time. I never had fecal egg count done because they are on regular schedule. How much of alfalfa hay should he have a day? I am thinking 1/2 flake in AM and 1/2 in PM or a full flake in AM and PM? Would he need alot of straight alfalfa considering he gets a big belly when eating alot of hay?
 
I just thought of this. Have you seen him eating manure.A lot of horses with big bellies are snacking on manure during the day. If that is the case then you might need to muzzle him in between meals.
 
I just thought of this. Have you seen him eating manure.A lot of horses with big bellies are snacking on manure during the day. If that is the case then you might need to muzzle him in between meals.

No, he definitely does not eat manure. I haven't seen him do it and I am sure he isn't.
 
Actually, IMO, horses who eat manure do so because of an underlying issue which just happens to also cause the belly. If you watch foals they will nibble their dams droppings and that is to set the gut flora to help them digest fiber better. We humans, in our need to keep things hygienic clean the pens we keep horses in and often (again IMO) leave a horse with no way to build those necessary bacteria. Because bellies are often a result of digestive imbalances horses with bellies will often be seen eating the droppings in a attempt to rebuild the flora that helps break down the fiber in the hay they eat.

This of course doesn't mean don't clean the pens lol, there are many good reasons to keep the manure picked up such as parasites, flys and odor(this is not aimed at anyone, just a disclaimer in case someone reads this and thinks thats what I'm suggesting).

MiniParadise, I would mix the alfalfa in equal parts with the grass hay and then feed him 2% of his body weight daily split into 2 meals at least ( 3 or more would be even better)I can't really say by flakes because what is a flake from your bales may be totally different than a flake from mine.It needs to be weighed to really judge the amount to feed. If you want to cut it further and feed less than 2% in hay(grass or alfalfa) then you can make up the difference by adding beat pulp for a portion but as I said earlier, horses need the chewing time to stay healthy so don't cut his hay out entirely. As for feeding straight alfalfa, it is rich and can be hard on their systems to have too much, some well respected horsemen refuse to feed it at all (they call it cattle feed) I personally like how my horses do on a mix of 30% alfalfa and 70% grass.

I would still get the fecal done, some horses just seem to carry a heavier worm burden than others regardless of the care they receive, A yearling or weanling is likely to be more infected than the adults in the same field. It is a cheap way to assure yourself that you are feeding the horse and not his little friends.
 
Actually, IMO, horses who eat manure do so because of an underlying issue which just happens to also cause the belly. If you watch foals they will nibble their dams droppings and that is to set the gut flora to help them digest fiber better. We humans, in our need to keep things hygienic clean the pens we keep horses in and often (again IMO) leave a horse with no way to build those necessary bacteria. Because bellies are often a result of digestive imbalances horses with bellies will often be seen eating the droppings in a attempt to rebuild the flora that helps break down the fiber in the hay they eat.

This of course doesn't mean don't clean the pens lol, there are many good reasons to keep the manure picked up such as parasites, flys and odor(this is not aimed at anyone, just a disclaimer in case someone reads this and thinks thats what I'm suggesting).
I have never seen a controlled study that backs this up.

70% of a horses immune system is located on the GI tract and therefore good microflora balance helps with overall digestion. Not just fiber. A far more common assumption why horses (and dogs and cats) eat their own feces is due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. It could just be (ick) habit.

If you are looking at using a probiotic to help balance GI micoflora, be sure to use one that is microencapsulated. Many of the ones at feed stores are not and can not guarantee that the CFU's will arrive in a viable form.

My 2 cents...
 
From the pictures you posted I dont think he has that much of a belly anyway. I'm sure that if you increased his protein level it would help. Be careful not to lower his fibre intake, he needs it for his wellbeing plus his peace of mind. If you haven't much grass for him to graze then he needs his fibre.

Also, I went back and re-read your first post to check on his age. He's only a yearling! Lungeing is very much a no no with yearlings (dont know if you realised this) it is too hard on the joints. Even round penning, can be a bit much, unless you have a large enough pen, and then only two or three times a week for around 10 minutes at a time. Yearlings should be getting all their 'exercise' free running/playing in as bigger space as you can give them, with companions of their own age if possible. Do you have any other youngsters or can you 'borrow/house' some from a friend for him to play youngster/fun games with?

He's a nice little lad - hope you can get him sorted soon - good luck with the shows!
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AnnaC, yes I realize he is a yearling. When I lunge him I actually don't even lunge him that long (less than 10 mins). If it is uncomfortably hot for me, I can only imagine how he feels. I do have another yearling colt, but I prefer to keep horses I show seperate (except weanlings) to keep them from getting bite marks or whatever else they can do to each other. I don't have a grassy area for him right now so he is kept on a dry lot. Starting today he will be receiving alfalfa hay so I am hoping it will provide the protein he needs along with Strategy and beet pulp. Also, thanks for not thinking his belly looked bad but compared to horses in the show ring he needs a lot of work on his. He is desent looking when cleaned up and I want to be proud of him looking his best.
 

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