Time Of Year Connection For Red Bag/Dystocia Loss of Foal/Mare

[Contessa]

Saturday morning we had a red bag and lost a perfect full term black colt/blue eyes out of a 32" 4 yr maiden mare. Mare has a decent hip as both her sire & dam were National Champion driving horses. The stallion is 32 inches and refined. The colt's head and front legs were tucked underneath him but with the expertise of my vet and strength of my husband they got him out intact but dead after an hour and a half. I had read up on and even watched videos on red bags and I knew what to do. The shocking surprise was that there was nothing there to pull out. My poor mare was pushing as hard as she could and a second bag appeared. Still no foot, nose, nothing! My brain went numb! Too much time had passed and I knew the foal was already dead. At that point all I wanted to do was save my precious mare, which we did. The vet even said she can be rebred this year. I'll have to rethink that one when the time comes. I haven't had a foal for 3 years and I was really looking forward to this one. I went back and re-read everything I could on red bags and what I have come up with is a connection to the time of year they mostly occur. I've started this poll to try and prove my theory right or wrong. You can choose more than one month if you have had more than one red bag/dystocia.

 

[Contessa]

Is there some reason you did not include January in the poll? I have had one in January, as well, over the years. Usually at the 9-10 month mark.

I just added January and December.

 

[Joanne]

I would be surprised if any month was more prone to them except that there was a mare due to foal. There may be more in spring in the US, as there are more mares foaling then.

I never associated it to a time as much as a possibility in a pregnant mare. Here the mares that had one did not repeat them the next time, and if the foal is not in the wrong position you may be able to get the foals out alive if you are right there when foaling begins.

 

[Contessa]

I think posting which state or country you are in would help also. Obviously March weather in PA in completely different than say, CA or FL.

 

[Contessa]

Joanne, I agree in that I have not had any "repeat" dystocia's in any mares. And I think the success rate strongly depends if you are there at the beginning of the foaling process.

Not having any repeat dystocias is good to hear. Did you breed them again the same year of the dystocia or give them the year off to recoup? Also I had my mare on camera and we were there from the beginning, just couldn't find anything to grab on to.

 

[Riverrose28]

I did vote but for the month that I lost the foal due to a red bag, and I was present, but I think the foal was already gone. Last year I had a maiden mare that is very refined and I was so worried about her delivering, she presented a red bag which I promply tore and she was able to deliver normally, a black colt.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I voted April/May as that is when our mares are normally due.

This survey is to broad to draw any conclusions from as far as useful statistics. Most people breed for Spring foals so that's when you're likely to have the problems.

EX. If people do not breed for August/September foals, then the likely hood of dystocias would be zero in those months or the ones preceding them.

 

[Miniv]

I'm having a hard time answering your poll for two reasons....One is that I can't remember the exact month we had our Red Bag birth, but we didn't lose either the foal or mare.

The second reason is that a Dystocia is when a foal is not presented properly for birthing and a Red Bag is a placenta previa (The placenta disengages from the uterine wall prematurely during the birthing.) Yes, both can happen at the same time, but more often than not the foal is presented properly with a Red Bag, from what I've read.

We've had a number of dystocias where we've lost the foal, but never the mare. Again the dystocias have occurred over several different months over the spring and summer. Wish I could be a better polling person.

 

[Contessa]

My gut feeling about the worst month is March and I can already see the votes pointing to that fact. I would like to see at least 50 votes to really get some kind of informative conclusion. March weather is like a woman with bad mood swings and I think this can somehow affect some foals during the last trimester. I know weather could be just one reason for March dystocias. I put this poll up because I haven't seen this explored yet on this forum. I agree that most foalings are in the spring, but by no means all. I have 10 miniature horses, 7 were born in April and the other 3 were 1 in July and 2 in August. That is basically 1/3 not born in the "normal" foaling months. I have 2 mares bred for August this year and another for April. I am trying to decide for myself the best time for breeding for the best outcomes without completely going against nature. This may all come down to luck, good or bad, but I have to try for my own piece of mind.

 

[kaykay]

I really do not think weather or time of year has anything to do with it. We have only had 1 red bag delivery in 10 years and it was a summer foaling. Both mare and foal were fine.

There is speculation that red bags (placenta previa) is caused by an infection entering the cervix but even then there is no proof.

Placenta previa happens in all animals (even humans as I had it with my daughter)

I just think its "one of those things"

So sorry you lost your foal

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I'm not sure how to vote either, I've had two red bag foalings (April & May) but the foals & the mare were fine, one dystocia (April, I think, but not sure) lost the foal mare was fine, and this year lost a mare & foal it was a dystocia (late-term abortion), but not a red bag (in February).

 

[minie812]

I have noticed that the four losses we have had occured in one in Feb (severe cold weather of -16) and three after severe stormy weather in March appeared two were severe twisted cords

 

[Reble]

Time of the year has nothing to do with red bag deliveries.

Sorry for your loss.

There are a variety of causes for placenta previa ("red bag delivery").

Some of the more common reasons include:

Placentitis during pregnancy;

Mares with poor uterine/endometrial condition (biopsy score);

Endophyte fungus (e.g. on fescue grass) exposure during pregnancy.

 

[Contessa]

Thank you to all of you who have voted and posted. I am seeing a pattern in the poll but would like to have more votes and hear your experiences. For every single member on this forum who lost a foal and/or mare, I now know your pain. Mere words can never really describe the emotions, sights and sounds that flood you in those horrendous hours of trying to pull a dead foal from it's mother. I realize I worded the poll a bit specific and hard to answer but you can choose a month in which you have had either a dystocia or red bag. I unfortunately got hit with a double whammy and got both at the same time. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[eagles ring farm]

So sorry for you loss

Ours was April

lost a black pinto filly the only foal sired by my Smokin' before we sold him. I so wanted this filly but it was a dystocia

(hip lock)not a red bag. Got her out a short time after losing her I just wasn't fast enough or experienced enough I guess. Once I found where she was stuck and pushed her hip off she slid right out, but too late

Luckily the mare was fine.

We had 1 Red bag in May but all was well with mare and foal thanks to all I have learned on here

Lori

 

[sedeh]

I'm so sorry you lost your foal.

I don't think your poll is going to prove much except people breed for more spring foals than any other time. I've only lost one full term foal and we suspect early placenta seperation was the cause. Didn't really see a red bag with her. The mare was re-bred and had a healthy filly last year!

Had another red bag delivery last April but the foal survived.

 

[Contessa]

I have noticed that the four losses we have had occured in one in Feb (severe cold weather of -16) and three after severe stormy weather in March appeared two were severe twisted cords

Just days before my mare's red bag/dystocia we had almost 5 inches of heavy rain and severe flooding. My horses were not actually in flood waters but they could see it.

 

[Riverrose28]

I did vote on the red bag question, and have only had two, which I was present for both, one dead foal, one live foal, but I have had my share of dystocia. It is a nightmare. It is only compounded when the foal is already dead, cause they are dead weight not fighting to be born. In 2008, Feb. my best show mare went into labor, or so I thought on a Thurs. I called the vet out becuase the mare was not bagged, just a little. I wasn't sure if it was first stage labor or colic. By the time the vet arrived she was resting on her sternum, nice and quiet. The vet scoped her and said her cervix was softening and she problably was reacting to the foal getting into position and that I should watch her because I would have a foal before the end of the weekend. On Sat. night at 10:35 she started to get restless, sweating acting colicy again. I called the vet right away. As soon as I got off the phone whe layed down and assumed the position with heavy contractions. After a long, 15 minutes the bubble was present, I waited and waited, so after another 15 minutes with nothing else I scrubbed up and broke the sack went in to find the foal, vet was still at least 30 minutes away. This mares cervix was hardly dilated at all, I couldn't reach the foal. When the Vet got here she sadated the mare as she was in a lot of pain, more lube, she tried could only get the two front legs, head was down and foal unresponsive. She administered all kinds of drugs to get her to dialate, and we turned her upside down and hung her hind end in the air with two strong men holding the ropes and vet again tryed to retrieve the head, but the mare was not dialated enough. She tried for over four hours to get the foal out. She couldn't dismember the foal as there wasn't enough room to get into the uterus. By this time my baby was in shock and bleeding terrably, she would not make the two hour drive to the University for a c-section, I had to let her go to the big pasture in the sky, I am crying as I type this and it has been two years. This is something I will never in my life get over. I can only grieve for all the mares that have lost their little babies and all the owners that have lost their mares, it is one thing to lose a foal and another to lose a beloved mare.

IN 2009 I lost a foal to a dog sitting dystocia and twisted cord, but mare only needed to be treated for a pinched bladder, vet was also in atendence for that one. I live in the boonies and it is hard to get the Vet here in an instant. I don't have any foals expected this year simply because I don't have enough money saved to cover any problems, maybe next year. Sorry so many of you are losing your foals and mares.