Time for everyone to come clean!!

[Sherry]

I have been wanting to ask this for a while now as I must be missing the boat somehow.

Next year I plan on either buying another stallion or leasing one so I figured now is as good of time as any to find out how/where you guys are keeping your secrets.

Quite frequently I will see someone post a pic of a beautiful mini that they either just bought or uploaded due to the content of the subject (stallions for 2009, favorite cross you are waiting for etc...) that was either not listed on your website for sale or not there all together. So where are you guys keeping your "secret barn" and how am I suppose to find it?? LOL!!

There are so many levels to this post to try to get my point across so I will try to break it down to the following:

1. While I realize some of you will say just email the person and see if it is for sale I am afraid it might open up some can of worms. First of all I have seen stallions in person that I thought were just gorgeous and commented to the owners as such only to find out when they started showing they had a ewe neck (I didn't notice when out in the pasture) so now that owner comes up quite frequently wanting to know when I am going to buy one of the foals out of this stallion that I went on and on about. What are you suppose to say after the fact?...sorry I am no longer interested as I didn't notice his neck before and I am not breeding for that.

or pics in the MHW of gorgeous stallions that I wouldn't want on the place after seeing them in person. It's one thing to ask for tons of pics when they have them listed for sale and weed them out but another if you try/beg the person to consider selling them and then notice these traits when they send pics. Too ofter what I see happen is then the person gets labeled for being a "tire kicker" or not serious when really they have a hard time just saying that stallion didn't pan out to be what the person wanted.

2. I also realize that it may not be on your website for different reasons but do you purposely not put some of your best on there? I visit so many sites on a daily basis and then attend every show in Tx/Ok and they start coming out of the wood works for multiple farms that I would kill to buy but there are already sold etc... There are several people I watch that are posters here and I feel like I track their sites good to find my "perfect" stallion and next thing I know someone else is showing "so excited see my new purchase" and I never even knew that person had a stallion (or mare) like that.

3. I know alot of people in one respect and I always buy from them because I trust them and the quality is certainly there but I want to broaden my horizons and branch out to the tons of people that I don't know as I feel perhaps this is why I miss so many. Whole other states besides Texas

but it seems I can't peg or see them till after they are sold.

I guess bottom line is how to I go about finding the really good quality ones that are in states further away and inquire without hurting people's feeling and backing out without me being labeled. Again I have NO problem doing this when they are offered for sale. I asked for pics and then if I see something I don't like I kindly thank them for their time and let them know it wasn't exactly what I was looking for or wasn't meeting my criteria etc...something along those lines but I feel funny to see the perfect stallion on someone's website or post and then inquire if they would be willing to sell and then if they say possibly ask for tons of pics and then say sorry not interested because of something legite I saw or didn't know about. (Height being one....loved one looked 31"ish and then found out it was 34") easy to back out of that one by saying I am sorry didn't realize he was that tall. But when it comes to a conformation flaw its hard to say sorry didn't realize he was cowhocked (or whatever). I also find if I post on the sales board what I want I really don't get the awesome stallions...either people do not know me so don't take me seriously or for whatever reason so while I get really good responses they just don't seem to be my dream horse. Hopefully you get the gist and can give me some pointers on how you would go about the above or better yet tell me that you have great horses you don't advertise and if you would respond to a sales board ad with your first line string etc....

I sure hope this make sense

 

[crponies]

While I have no experience in this area, I would think it might help if you get the word out that you are looking to purchase or lease a stallion. Perhaps put an ad on the sales board with the specifics of what you want? I do sort of know what you mean though about people buying horses that were never advertised for sale. I know some people have on their website to e-mail them if you are interested in any of their horses. Perhaps you could e-mail farms that have the type of horses you like and let them know what you are looking for without naming any specific stallion too.

 

[albahurst]

It will be interesting to hear responses to your question.

Peggy

 

[Becky]

Because I don't have a huge herd, virtually every horse I own is pictured on my website. The only exceptions I have right now are two horses that I just bought this fall/winter. Waiting for spring for better pictures!

I have purchased most of my herd over the years over the internet. I think you just have to ask the right questions and get the right pictures to make an informed decision. If you think a farm may be breeding the right kind of horse but don't see it pictured on their website, it never hurts to email or call and ask if they have anything available like you are looking for.

I have purchased from all over the country and the majority of those horses were just what I was expecting!

 

[Mona]

I would just be upfront and honest when initially approaching the person. For example, your email could read similar to this...

I am writing to you as I was visiting your web site today and saw a stallion that may be of interest to me. He was not listed for sale, but am wondering if you might consider selling him? I am seriously interested in him based soley on the photos I see of him, but I would require several more from you, (and perhaps a video) which may or may not result in my buying him, depending on whether he has the exact qualities that I am seeking for my next stallion addition.

Please get back to me, and if you feel this may be something we can work together on, I will send you my list of specific photo/video requirements. And please also understand, that it may not result in a sale in the end, but again, I do want you to know that I am seriously interested in him, at least from what I have seen of him up to this point. Thank you.

Sincerely, xxxxxxx

At least this way, they can choose ahead of time whether or not they want to go through the work it will require in case you decide against purchasing from them.

 

[Miniv]

Mona posted a very good suggestion...........One thing that may happen is that the stallion you saw not for sale, may have some very nice SONS that the farm are holding onto to see how they mature that they may be more willing to let go.

 

[funnybunny]

I really don't think people are "hiding" horses, but they are not always offered unless someone is interested.

We visited a zillion websites when we were getting ready to purchase our horses. Sometimes "glamor shots" of the horses can be deceiving as we have discovered. We made a mistake or two by going from photographs.

Actually going to farms (even if they are far away) is much better than looking at websites or photos. Many times a horse is not advertised at being for sale, but if you fall in love with one or are interested, the owners will usually give a price. Some people have so many, they are willing to let a good one go, even without it being offered for sale on the website.

If you see a really nice one at a show, ask the people if they have any more like that at home. Strike up a conversation and they might tell you there is something at home you might like.

I must say that if I were asked to send lots of photos of a horse and then the person replied that it did not meet their criteria, that might tick me off a bit. I guess it depends more on your wording of turning that person down. After people go to trouble to send lots of photos, let them down easy...

If it is possible, plan on visiting some farms and looking at everything and talking to the people. We've made some fantastic friendships that way and have never had a negative experience while visiting. No, we didn't buy something from every farm we visited, but we stay and touch and have bought some since then because they called US to say that they had a new foal that reminded them of what we liked when we visited there. Keep all your options open.

There are so many wonderful breeders out there and so many farms and so many horses to look at that it is an exciting, inspiring thing to make contacts with people and make visits. As the old saying goes, "It's not what you know, it's WHO you know." These mini people are super!!!

.

 

[Minimor]

I think it really helps if you can learn to look for good (or bad) conformation even when the photo is a little less than perfect. You must remember that a good many people simply can never get really good photos of their horses. Poor photography can make a great horse look a little less than wonderful. That could be part of the reason why you don't "see" these horses when you're browsing through websites, but then they come out of the woodwork at the shows. Some of the best horses might be hiding in plain sight--you just have to learn to see them!

Case in point--the stallion with the ewe neck that you didn't notice when you saw him in the pasture--if he's ewe necked in the show ring he was probably ewe necked in the pasture, but you didn't notice, either because he was hairy, or because he was carrying extra weight that disguised the poor neck, or because you just didn't look past the overall "picture" he made. Or, is it possible that he really isn't ewe necked, but in the ring he was presented incorrectly, so that he appears to be ewe necked? I have seen that too--some people pull the head up too high, and get the horse to stretch its nose out, and that pose can really turn a horse's neck upside down--they think they are showing off a long neck and instead it makes it look like the neck is just plain wrong.

I've also bought some horses for cheap prices because the seller didn't think they were anything much...then when I bring them out later they're looking pretty good--so good that the seller is surprised. Very surprised! I enjoy that, bringing out a horse that the breeder/seller doesn't even recognize because it looks so much better than they expected it to ever look!!

Start studying conformation--really studying it--and learn to recognize a diamond in the rough--that will make it easier to decide who to contact about horses and should eliminate some of your concern about having to tell someone that they don't have the right horse for you after all.

 

[Taylor Jo]

Having just looked for a year for a horse I spent a LOT of time looking and turning horses down. MAN was that HARD. I HATED it. HATED IT..... I agree with Mona, 100% she has a VERY tactful way of putting it. Gee, where was she when I need some of that tact. HA.... I would ALWAYS thank people and tell them that I appreciated them sending me the pics but it didn't quite match what I was looking for. I really was sincere in my respones to and meant what I said cause I did appreciate people cause I know how excited you get when someone inquires about your horse your trying to sell. Some people accepted it and said thanks for looking, some people wanted to know what I was exactly looking for even though I did state it, and others DID get upset and took offense. I tried to explain to them, it's NOT your HORSE and it wasn't it just WASN'T what I was looking for. Some people wanted me to critique their horses and I wouldn't do that.

I met some WONDERFUL people out there, WONDERFUL people. Some I'm still friends with and I can't say enough nice things about them, even though I didn't buy their horses. It was a wonderful journey. I had a friend help me and with out her I couldn't have done it. So get someone to help you otherwise you'll drive yourself nuts.

I also agree, the glamor shots can be VERY decieving, so make sure you get "real" pictures of them and don't be afraid to ask for them. I found the best views that I asked for are the horse standing still a head shot up close and back a little ways with the person "alway's" at their level a side view of each side and a back view. THEN if you want a video you can ask for it.

I wasn't a afraid to ask people if I saw a nice horse to IF it was for sale, no harm in asking. OR I'd ask them IF they had ANY for sale that I was SPECFICALLY looking for from a good farm.

IF YOU CAN go visit farms like Mona said that would be great. I wish I'd had some near me. I've bought all my horses via internet and was terrified EACH TIME. So far have lucked out SEVERAL times. I've also SOLD via the internet and found wonderful homes as well.

Good luck to you in your quest and remember never think a question your going to ask the owner about the horse is dumb. ASK, here is the one time you get to know about THAT horse, so NOW IS THE TIME TO ASK IT.......TJ

 

[SHANA]

As a buyer from internet photos only, as all my mini purchases have been out of Quebec. Well I inquire about the horse, ask for tons of photos, even a video if possible. For my new stallion, Onekas Devil After Dark. Well I had been looking for a stallion that just caught my eye, same feeling as when I first saw Coyote Winds Knockouts picture(the stallion I lost). I had looked at maybe a dozen stallions but some were to tall, others to expensive, and some not quite what I was looking for. When I saw Devil I had that feeling, inquired on him, even though he was in Manitoba and I didn't have much money at the time I managed to get a loan with the bank for the full amount of the stallion as well as the shipping. When he arrived here in Quebec I knew I had made the right choice. He is everything I wanted in a stallion, well built, gorgeous conformation and such a gentle soul. I cannot wait to see what he produces in 2010. I don't regret buying him for a minute.

I also bought a mini filly cheap when she was 6 months old that the breeder thought would be 35-36" as her dam was tall and the filly was big boned, well she is a now a 3 year old and only 30.75" which surprised her breeder.

 

[Littleum]

Go to shows and get to know folks. If you're seriously in the market to buy/lease, go visit farms. If you don't see what you want, tell the breeder what you DO want.

Build relationships. Get to know folks. It will do more for you then any number of unsolicited emails and phone calls. Very often the "special" foals aren't really for sale to anyone who walks in off the street- a breeder wants to see those foals go to someone who's going to, say, put it with a trainer and show it pretty seriously and "do right by it" So if you're looking for something special, personal contacts will help you find it.

If you get to know Breeder A, B and C and say, Trainer 1 and 2, when they have/hear about something they think you'd like, they'll probably think of you and let you know.

You could also enlist the help of a trainer/agent to find what you're looking for. You need to be cautious, though, as the trainer might pressure you into something you don't want to please their preferred client. But trainers are great resources when you're shopping for something very specific and very high-end.

 

[Genie]

I used L'il Beginning Horse Breeders Connect to find the perfect stallion for our program at this time.

I was looking for a black and white, homozygeous for tobiano, and small.

I wanted something within a 7 to 8 hour radius from our farm in Southwestern Ontario Canada.

I read the breeders comments, the Avatar was an "eye catcher" and on communication with the breeder was impressed with her integrity and ease of making the deal come together.

On the forum at one time there was a topic regarding buying on the internet and things to ask, in addition to the obvious.

One question which I thought was really great to ask was " if you could fault your horse, what would it be?"

Often there is some thing that you wish was a little different and I thought that question was quite good.

It was a good experience and gave the opportunity to connect with a breeder that has a wonderful program and excellent service.

 

[targetsmom]

I agree with Littleum - it doesn't hurt to spread the word about what you are looking for. Only one of our 7 minis was actually advertised for sale, as far as I know (and we saw that one on Lil Beginnings). The rest were all from our asking around and e-mailing to get the word out that we were looking for quality pintos with good movement. So in most cases, the breeders contacted US when they had something they thought we would like. (A little hint like "if you ever want to sell So and So, please let us know", can't hurt either). In one case, the breeder sent us to another breeder farther away because he didn't have what we wanted right then. On the other hand, we have tried buying minis the other way, answering ads, contacting breeders, getting photos and videos, etc. We only got one mini that way; the rest of those deals didn't go through, often because we didn't like the movement as seen on the video.

I would like to think this will work both ways when we have something to sell. We do know people looking for minis, and we will let them know when we have something for sale. But we also get out to lots of different types of shows, plus other events, to get our horses plenty of exposure and meet lots of people. I think having a website helps whether you are selling OR buying. If you have top quality mares on your website, and you are looking for a really, really nice stallion, don't you think that might give you a bit of an edge over someone without a website or with mediocre mares?

 

[wpsellwood]

I have had several inquires on horses, that I didnt have posted for sale. I personally find it a compliment. Yes its a pita to take pictures and then someone says, well not exactly what I wanted. No skin off my nose as I really didnt have them for sale anyway. Or like recently have someone inquire on one and it looks like it might be a sale. Yes I took extra pictures and if they decide they dont want her. No big deal I dont care one way or another.

I take video too, with my camera doesnt take much and post it on you tube. Its all good, ask away the worst they can say is no, not for sale. Ive dont that too, and like I said I took it as a big compliment.

I want to add that I looked at lots of horses with TJ, she looked at 100s and had photos sent, I dont think there is such a thing a tire kicker cuz when they come across the one, they end up buying too. Im always looking always but not always buying.

 

[Riverdance]

I bought my stallion: Fallen Ash Scouts Prince Of Tides from a farm that was not advertisig him for sale. I e-mailed them and asked if they would be interested in selling him. They were, and I bought him.

His first foal with me went on to win an AMHA World Championship at the age of 1 year old. This year I had several more foals by him, one a full brother to the World Champion.

So it is always worth asking. Perhhaps they just may be thinking of selling.

Also, many farms just do not have the money to hire a professional photographer to take pictures of their horses. With professional pictures, even some of the not so nice horses look good. Farms that can not afford photographers have to do the best they can with photos that they take themselves. These photos usually do not do the horses justice. Many times these horses are sold at shows when people can get a chance to see them in person.

Then you eventually see them as sold. Usually at shows.

Also, it may be worth your while to look outside your area. There are many good breeding farms that are not in Okalahoma or Texas. It would be worth it to ship a good stud prospect. Especially since the cost of gas is down and so are shipping costs.

 

[Sherry]

Thanks everyone for the replies. For my next herdsire I do want to get "that one that you just know is right" and don't want to just limit it to Tx/Ok. I will try to go see as many in person as possible which I have done for the majority but again that is because I bought most of them within driving distance and want to branch out this time for different bloodlines. Most of my purchases have been thru trainers or very well known respected breeders and I am very happy with all of my purchases (more or less...one I overpaid but she is very nice and does have the potential to be a great broodmare but I bought her as a show filly) so I have been pleased with that method so far but as someone stated most of the time you get steered to the same farms and back to those clients that the trainers want to show loyalty too. I have no problem with that as I have gotten great quality and was not disappointed just do not want to do that everytime since they tend to have the same bloodlines. While not perfect I feel confident in my ability to judge conformation so I can usually look past the "amature" photographer but I sometimes have trouble with the heads depending on the angles they shot the horse at. I do think I need to branch out more so will just do as Mona suggested (wanna sell Rocky? LOL) and just make it clearer in my email that I am looking for a specific horse and will know it when it wows me. Hopefully I can word it so people understand that their stallion was just so nice that I put it in the catagory of a possibility and may or may not be weeded out for reasons that don't necessarily mean it wasn't a awesome stallion just because it wasn't the one. I would not have inquired if I didn't think so from that one photo but something else may have made me decide it wasn't Mister Right. WPsellwood I wish everyone had your attitude....I share the same philosphy. I will take thousands of pics and do whatever the potential buyer wishes (within reason...no shaving in dead of winter etc...) to make the best outcome for both parties and if it results in a sale great if not I met a nice person!!

One thing for sure I was happy to see several of the people that I have been eyeing their stallions way in on this thread so I think I will do what some of you suggested and sometime in the spring email everyone that I have admired and see "if they would consider" or "do you have any sons"

Thanks again guys.....

 

[Echo Acres]

well, I might be sticking my neck out here, but I am feeling you might be asking a little more than what you got in response? I too think similiar to you. Even this fall when a few trainers/breeders new we were looking for a stallion prospect, nothing was said about this certain horse. Then all of a sudden I seen a thank you on lil beginnings for allowing so and so to let me purchase a certain horse. Very shortly after we had said we were looking. Kind of makes me wonder if these larger breeders/trainers don't advertise these horses in order to selectively pick who they offer them to for sale? Were we not "big" enough farm for that special horse to go to? Do they not think we do well enough in the show ring? Well on the other end of it, it takes those good horses to make a name for your farm and in the show ring.

I maybe totally off track, or reading into things too much, but I have felt this way a few times when we were looking for horses.

 

[shelia]

It seems to me that many breeders I know do not advertise their horses for sale. It is a lot of times just by word of mouth. When you first decide to sell one you tell the people you know. They may also know someone who is looking for a particular type of horse. That way you give the people who have done business with you the first consideration and you know what type of home the horse is going to. Most horses I have bought have never been advertised. I have people who contact me when they have a horse for sale or know someone who does. Most don't quite fit with what I want, but sometimes they do. Peoples circumstance may change rapidly so I am always open to know what is out there.

I wanted to add, One of my best horses was found on a sale add. I watched it for months before I got up enough nerve to call and was shocked to find it was still for sale. You just never know how you are going to run across that perfect horse.

 

[Getitia]

Mona has provided some great advice. We are among those who do not have all of our horses and/or annual foals produced listed on our web site.

Our goal is to find a perfect match for exactly what the client is searching to obtain. I'll send as many photos as requested - sometimes it may take a little longer to take and send the photos due to my travel schedule - but I really do not want anyone surprised or disappointed when they see the horse in person. Since I also purchase a few horses from time to time, I don't personally purchase off of only "glamor photos" either

.

Actually the greatest majority of our horses are sold to those who may have months or sometimes even years prior - have written and mentioned - I'm looking for (XXXXX) and if you ever produce one or you decide to sell such and such horse - to please let me know first................... and I do (I keep a running confidential list). Our process doesn't obligate anyone to purchase when notified as things can change - especially if it has been years since the inquiry and that is not a problem at all. But this method means that some (not all) of the really great foals or mature stallions/mares may not be advertised publically.

We do advertise and sell many of our top show horses each year - And I never get in a hurry or a rush to try and force the sell of any horse we have available as customer satisfaction is absolutely critical for us................

 

[Genie]

well, I might be sticking my neck out here, but I am feeling you might be asking a little more than what you got in response? I too think similiar to you. Even this fall when a few trainers/breeders new we were looking for a stallion prospect, nothing was said about this certain horse. Then all of a sudden I seen a thank you on lil beginnings for allowing so and so to let me purchase a certain horse. Very shortly after we had said we were looking. Kind of makes me wonder if these larger breeders/trainers don't advertise these horses in order to selectively pick who they offer them to for sale? Were we not "big" enough farm for that special horse to go to? Do they not think we do well enough in the show ring? Well on the other end of it, it takes those good horses to make a name for your farm and in the show ring.I maybe totally off track, or reading into things too much, but I have felt this way a few times when we were looking for horses.

I have had horses that I didn't want to sell and so I put a price that I think is going to be much more than anyone would pay.

In two separate cases the inquiring prospective buyer said, "that's fine" when I gave them the price.

I now have a bigger price that I put on the horses I do not want to sell, and hopefully they will stay with me.

Lots of times when someone inquires I will just say that I am asking "too much" for that horse because I would prefer not to sell. Usually the bouyer won't ask what the price is, but if they want a price I provide the "shocker"