The Death Penalty, Euthanasia and PAS

[ozymandias]

Here's a nice easy going non-confrontational thread for a change :0

With the massacre that just happened in Colorado there's a lot of renewed talk about the Death Penalty.

I'm wondering what people here think about the death penalty, euthanasia (in regards to animals) and physician assisted suicide (in regards to humans) Would you let a beloved pet suffer and die naturally? Would you let a loved one (human) suffer and die naturally? Do you believe in the death penalty for those convicted of heinous crimes?

Maybe no one wants to stick their necks out for this one

 

[Minimor]

I believe in all three.

Would I let a pet suffer? Absolutely not.

A family member? At this point in this country we don't have a lot of choice. That may soon change thanks to a recent court ruling.

Death penalty--absolutely yes, especially in those cases where there is no doubt at all. I would have handed the death penalty to Bernardo and Williams since both had video tape evidence of their guilt.

 

[vickie gee]

Well darn, I drew a card and it was that death penalty one. Ok.

Death penalty. Hmmmmmmm. I reckin we are talking that a court of law has tried the accused and the sentencing phase has taken place and it turns out to be death penalty. So be it; if that is the law of that state. Now that person gets to or has to go into an eternal life.

 

[ohmt]

My answer will surprise some as most have probably deduced by now that I am one of the most liberal members of this forum.

I am pro all 3. No human being or animals should ever be made to suffer. If a person decides that they no longer want to be in this world and have a terminal illness, then it should definitely be their choice to pass peacefully without any pain. We should also do the same for animals if they are beyond saving. In my eyes it is much more cruel to let an animal suffer than to euthanize.

I am pro death penalty as long as it has been proven beyond a doubt that the person committed murder and only in "extreme" cases. I count anyone that has murdered children, elderly, and disabled to be in that group though.

 

[Mona]

TOTALLY agree with ohmt!! And I will add to it, that for the convicted hard core criminals where they have tortured, commited murder etc, I wish they would give them the Electric Chair...why should their end be so peaceful, clean and calm when their victims had to suffer a horrific last few moments (or longer) on earth at their hands. Sorry, I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but since you asked, those ARE MY feelings!!

 

[maestoso]

I would do what is right for my animals, and in some cases that means euthanasia...I'm thankful not to be in a position to have to decide if the death penalty is ethical, and even more thankful never having been in a position where a family member or friend was asking for death...

 

[Katiean]

TOTALLY agree with ohmt!! And I will add to it, that for the convicted hard core criminals where they have tortured, commited murder etc, I wish they would give them the Electric Chair...why should their end be so peaceful, clean and calm when their victims had to suffer a horrific last few moments (or longer) on earth at their hands. Sorry, I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but since you asked, those ARE MY feelings!!

The electric chair would be good. But, I would add for the rapist/murderer, a small wood shed, a nail and a knife would be good. You nail their b@!!s to the floor. Hand them a knife and light the shed on fire. If he comes out shoot him. for other crimes they should have a very tiny cell with no human contact for the rest of their lives. That should be enough payment for what they did.

 

[LittleRibbie]

I believe no human or animal should suffer. I believe in euthansia. Assisted suicide, because of terminal illness, it should be your own choice. Death penalty for sure...but I dont think there should be appeal after appeal after appeal...judge says DEATH it should be 1 maybe 2 months later. The thought of my taxes going to feed,cloth and house a piece of crap murderer, rapist scumbag for sometimes 20 years after the judge said death really pistols me off!!!

 

[JAX]

Wow I like these answers! Each one is wonderful. I feel quite different than most people I know when it comes to suicide but if its due to terminal illness then i am at peace with that.

 

[susanne]

I am proud that Oregon pioneered the way in doctor-assisted suicide. I would prefer that nobody ever resorted to it, but I am thankful we all have that option. For many people who go through the process of getting the prescription, just knowing they have this choice eases some of their fear, and they end up not taking their own lives. This law has also helped promote hospice and encouraged doctors and hospitals to make morphine more available to the dying. If I were in that situation, I would much rather be able to choose when to go, rather than go through a slow, agonizing death. I've let Keith know that if I am ever in an irreversible vegetative state, I want the plug pulled.

Oregon's system requires psychiatric evaluation and the approval of several doctors, and can only be used by patients who can make the ultimate decision and give themselves the drugs. It is NOT a matter of someone else deciding to end someone's life.

I believe in euthanasia for animals when it will save them suffering -- to do otherwise is unthinkable.

I am less humane when it comes to dealing with murderers -- I think death is far too easy of an out for them. Seriously. Once they're dead, they're not suffering. I believe they deserve a long, miserable life in a dark, cold prison with no possibility of parole, no luxuries, and no easy ride. They should get only the bare necessities to make certain this life sentence lasts a good, long time. Through hard labor, they would pay for their own incarceration.

A sentence such as this would also be MUCH cheaper for society than our current system with its never-ending appeals.

 

[MountainWoman]

Euthanasia for SICK, DYING animals not for a person's convenience because they can't train it, etc. I've helped my dogs and cats cross over to the Rainbow Bridge and it was my final act of caring for them.

Assisted suicide for a person dying is trickier because so many emotions play into illness. One day you can handle it. Next day you can't. It would depend really on a case by case basis but I'd lean towards no. However, I wouldn't impose my views onto another family ever in this regard.

Death penalty. Maybe I'm the only one who is going to say no but I don't believe in it. I believe in locking them up, putting them away without benefit of cable tv, gyms, libraries, etc. Meaning doing hard time but on the one chance we have the wrong person, it's not worth it and then I also believe that any taking of a life in a cold, deliberate, judged manner demeans us.

Now I know I'm the minority here but seriously I carry spiders, bugs outside the house and let them go. And when my beloved dogs/cats died, they were suffering greatly and the vet said it was time. Maybe that doesn't make sense with my other views but I'm a work in progress as are we all.

 

[Jill]

I support the death penalty. There are some people who can add nothing to society and some crimes they commit merit the highest punishment. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the crimes that earn it expanded, either.

As far as euthanasia and patient assisted suicide, I feel those should choices available to an individual. Not a very uplifting thing to contemplate...

If we stick with Obamacare, I'm pretty sure the above will be menu options early on and possibly SOP later on down the road (vs. personal choices). There will not be enough resources to go around, and there really are not even now at the verge of the imposition of Obamacare.

 

[CharlesFamily]

I'll take the easy one first - I believe in euthanasia for pets. There is no reason to allow a creature who doesn't understand what is happening to suffer.

I do not believe in physician assisted suicide. It's a slippery slope. My belief is that everyone serves a purpose here on this Earth, and it is not our right to decide when that is done. I believe in making a person as comfortable as possible and no heroic measures at the end.

I also do not believe in the death penalty and that is hard for me. I believe that we never have the right to take a life, as much as we want to. That said, if some scumbag hurt my children, I would be tempted to end him myself. But murder of any kind is still murder, even if it is in retribution. That's why I find it hypocritical that those who oppose abortion are also many of the same who support the death penalty. Murder is murder. Taking a life is taking a life. We don't get to choose in which circumstances we do that.

Now, I am all for making a convicted murderer's life here on Earth a living he**. I don't believe in cable TV and other luxuries for prisoners of any kind. And I think living out their life in a small dark cell would be a good start on punishment!

Barbara

 

[Mona]

I think death is far too easy of an out for them. Seriously. Once they're dead, they're not suffering. I believe they deserve a long, miserable life in a dark, cold prison with no possibility of parole, no luxuries, and no easy ride. They should get only the bare necessities to make certain this life sentence lasts a good, long time. Through hard labor, they would pay for their own incarceration.

I am in TOTAL agreement of this, and I feel VERY STRONGLY the same way! I think our prison systems have become too muich of a country club atmosphere. The inmates have faaaaar too many "rights"!! It needs to be back to the old little grey cells with bars and a bad and a toilet, and let them sit in there and think about the life they COULD HAVE HAD if they had NOT comitted the crime(s) thay did! Entertainment...READ! Nothing more!

Susanne, I have always said the extreme criminals...that is the ones who have killed and truely made the lives of many pure heck, that they should sit in such a place as you have described here. THAT is punishment. Euthanasia is an "easy out", and I think they need to suffer!! And it REALLY irks me that even with the death penalty, it is a lethal injection....nope, MUCH too peaceful in my opinion for the heck they have created for others!

 

[Flying minis]

Ok, easy ones first - Euthanasia for pets, absolutely. Death penalty - would prefer the making life in prison actually be tough, but knowing we'll likely never get there, yes, in favor of.

As to PAS - for years I was against this. . . but in the last 3 years I have watched my mother slip further and further into Alzheimer's disease. She also has macular degeneration, so she now cannot see, cannot remember, has no memories of her life, and cannot understand at all what is happening to her. She lives in daily torment. If she were my dog, and I did NOT euthanize it, society would condemn me for not ending the poor animal's suffering. But because she is HUMAN, society expects that we keep her in care, until she cannot anymore even feed herself - at which point I can allow her to slowly starve to death. So yes, I'm not only for PAS, in some cases I believe in human euthanasia. For anyone who doesn't understand how I can feel that way, I hope you never have to go through what made me make that change in my belief system. There are indeed worse things than dying.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

I'm surprised by how much I agree with the general consensus on all three counts!

Euthanasia, as others have said, is the easy one. I 100% believe that if you have come to a point where you can do no more to ease your animal's suffering, giving them a quick and painless end is part of being a responsible owner.

An assisted end to a human life is harder for me, but obviously religious beliefs will affect each individual's perspective. Since religion and state are supposed to be separate, I do believe that this should be an option in terminal cases.

I strongly believe in the death penalty in the extreme cases already outlined by other members. It's funny - our law will force the euthanization of a dog that acts on instinct by biting someone that comes into its own territory and threatens it, but a human that tortures and even kills again and again becomes a lifelong tax burden. If, as ohmt said, they are a serial offender that is guilty without a doubt and it is clear that they can in no way be reformed into a positive, contributing member of society, then I think the death penalty should be an option.

 

[Mona]

Flying minis, I totally understand, and my heart goes out to you.

 

[HGFarm]

Yes I agree and support all three...

As caretakers of our pets and animals it is our responsibility to make sure they have the best care possible and lead a quaility life- including no pain and suffering at the end of it. I hate the job, but it comes with the territory of not letting them die a horrible death.

As far as assisted suicide- it's too bad it's not legal because I know of a person or two that has had terminal illness and did take their own life before it go to the most horrible stage of suffering and pain. They knew what was coming and chose not to go through it, nor to put their family through that either. Why can we put our pets out of a horrible deadly situation with peace and dignity, but Aunt Susie has to lay there and suffer all the pain til the end? It's not like she is going to have a recovery. An X boyfriends mother had terminal cancer. She was elderly- the cancer was very painful. The facility that she was in only would give her the morphine as scheduled, not when her cancer dictated she needed it. I have never seen such a cruel situation in my life- I had to leave the room when she began BEGGING her son to kill her- she couldn't stand another moment. If I ever end up in that situation, if I am unable, I hope someone does me the favor please.

in regards to criminals and the death penalty- YES- for people like Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer.... they will never benefit society in any way, cannot be rehabbed, and I highly object to my tax dollars supporting people like this while they sit there and do absolutely nothing but take up oxygen. I would much rather my tax dollars go to reinstate school programs for kids, to help feed the poor, etc..... than go to a worthless cause like feeding them, clothing them and providing all their medical care. Needy people on the street dont even get what they do.

 

[ozymandias]

Wow, there's some amazing answers here!

DEATH PENALTY.

I'm against it. Not that I don't think there are people out there for whom even the death penalty is too good. I'm against it for another reason. There are, ask any attorney or police officer, innocent people in jail and on death row.

When we've killed someone and they are dead and gone we can never replace that life. To me, it's not worth risking the life of even one innocent person to punish the evil ones who really deserve it.

Granted its different when someone is caught in the act. Perhaps all we need is to change the qualifications but all too often we hear of prime prosecution witnesses recanting their stories or DNA 100% clearing a, once found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, innocent person.

IMO, the taking of one innocent life isn't worth the satisfaction of killing a dozen guilty ones.

EUTHANASIA

100% for it. There's a time in a loving pet owners life when you no longer have to ask the question "is my friend suffering". We've all been there, and will go there again

. Yes, I won't hesitate, as heart wrenching as it is, to relieve a pet at the end of it's life from suffering.

P.A.S

I'm in full support - with eyes open to the pitfalls.

As Susanne already explained, we have legal physician assisted suicide here in Oregon.

The safeguards in place are so stringent that it's not a way to off granny and get to the will

The patient has to go through a series of psychological tests and multiple doctors unknown to the case so they can review the medical records and confirm a terminal illness beyond medical help.

A number of years ago my father developed pancreatic cancer. One of the most deadly cancers out there. Pretty much a 3 month death sentence from diagnosis. He had some of the finest doctors on the West coast on his medical team. They didn't pull any punches and explained to him what to expect (which he asked them to do) It wasn't going to be an easy death. Basically a month before he'd die he would no longer be able to ingest solids. Then as the cancer spread he would find taking liquids harder and harder. He would be constantly vomiting, get weaker and weaker as his own body started feeding on itself to stay alive while all the time being in such constant pain that the morphine dose would be so high that he'd virtually be in a coma.

He went to his doctor to request PAS.

The doctor who had taken care of his as a family doctor for the past 20 years was a strong Christian and told my Dad that as much as he never wanted to see him suffer - he couldn't be the one to prescribe the lethal medication. Dad respected that and was referred to another doctor. After well over a month of physician reviews and psychological examinations he was finally given the prescription.

Sure enough just as the doctors had told him his illness progressed as they had described. The pain was unbearable and this once handsome man who weighed 160lbs was down to a 98lb skeleton. The time had come. He started to give us all his goodbyes. I told him that my son was a child of strong christian faith and to please not tell him what he was about to do - which was agreed.

We took the lethal medicine down from where it was safely stored.

He didn't take it that night...nor the next day...no the next month...nor the next year...don't ask me what happened because it blew his doctors away so much that my dad became a topic of research. He lived another 2 years free of cancer. He got to see a brand new grandbaby be born. Got his weight back up to 130, planted a garden, has two Christmases ( he was born on Dec. 25th)

His cancer did come back, with a vengeance the second time around. This time he came into it with his lethal prescription all ready in his reach. He suffered, he suffered in a way I'd never allow an animal to suffer but he found a strength to endure because he knew that the moment he could no longer endure it - he had the blessings of his family and a way to ease his torment.

Like many, many others who have been prescribed the PAS medication, he chose not to use it. The comfort it brought him was beyond words. His knowing that when his burden became too great to bear there was something there to help him through it. He suffered, terribly, but he died in his bed, with his wife and children by his side without ever taking his lethal dose.

I support PAS because of the comfort it gives those facing the end whether they choose to use it or not.

 

[Mona]

WOW Ozy, another very touching story of a very sensitive matter. Thank you for sharing.