teaching to lead

[Estelle]

Well little miss Treasure is just full of beans and quite independant. She is 2 months old and I wanted to start with teaching her to lead a little. Now I have done this with the big guys, but never a mini..figured it would be the same and maybe it is with most, but this little begger is having none of it! :no:

I wish it were just a problem with her going forward then the old butt rope would solve the problem...but that's not it..you get her going with the butt rope or without if leading with her mom being led, but as soon as she feels any type of pull/pressure at all on the halter she starts thrashing side to side, rears up, throws her self to the ground, etc...

I dont want to injure her neck and I also dont want her to learn that when she feels the halter pressure (and I mean just the slightest bit) and throws a fit that she will be let loose, to me this rewards the unacceptable behaviour and will set it in her mind that this is the way to not have to do something I dont want to do. For this reason I have not worked her hardly at all at walking on a leadline until I figure out what to do.

Anyone here have suggestions on what I should do to work with her when she is like this? Or do I just leave her alone?

Thanks folks.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I always teach mine (and my big horses too) to give to pressure before I introduce leading in any form. I put a halter on them and once they are used to it, I put very light pressure on the halter to one side or the other. As soon as they give, even the TINIEST amount, I release the pressure. Then I work up to getting them to take one step to each side. Then I begin leading, and by that time, they usually lead very readily as they have learned to give.

 

[Estelle]

I have tried that..should have been more specific I guess, I just didnt want to write a book.

There is no slight give to pressure with her. As soon as I touch the halter she starts throwing herself around..she will give to pressure with no halter or rope, just your hand on the side of her neck she will turn it to the opposite side of the pressure, pressure on top of her head she will lower it, pressure on her shoulder she will move her shoulder over same with her rump. But as soon as I touch the halter either to put slight pressure on it or to snap a lead line onto the bottom ring where it goes she just goes ballistic on me...I have never seen this before and never ran into this with the big ones. And I should add she is fine with my hands on her face, on the front of her face, on the sides of her face, on both sides of her face at once with both hands, under her face and chin...she just doesnt seem to like the restrictive feeling of the halter when it is touched in anyway.

I always teach mine (and my big horses too) to give to pressure before I introduce leading in any form. I put a halter on them and once they are used to it, I put very light pressure on the halter to one side or the other. As soon as they give, even the TINIEST amount, I release the pressure. Then I work up to getting them to take one step to each side. Then I begin leading, and by that time, they usually lead very readily as they have learned to give.

 

[running in the red]

I'm haveing a leading problem with my 3 month old filly also. She lets put the halter on and will lead IF she is next to of the older fillies.....But, you remove her from the other girls and you would think that I was killing her, flips and rears and is just a real brat!

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

It sounds like you've had plenty of experience, but here's my 2 cents worth.

I halter up the foals while with their moms in stalls & let them get used to the feel of the halter itself for about 10-15 minutes at a time. Never unsupervised. No, I don't stand & watch always, but I'm nearby & could hear any ruckas at all. When time is up, I remove it & leave the foal alone with mom. Life goes on..............a little later, I'll do it again. If a baby is having a particularly rough time adjusting to my fussing with her head to put the halter on or off, well, I'll do that again & again -- maybe 3-5 times in a row whenever I do the halter thing. My thot: Bore 'em! Used that on big horses & it worked. Boring little ones works too. Make something so commonplace that it becomes nothing at all. The first time might not be a pretty thing. I let them smell it, touch it, bite it, whatever. Then sometimes I straddle them to be able to get hold of that little head. Halters with clips at the throatlatch work better & faster than those with buckles on the headstall. You only have to adjust for size once & then not mess with buckle.

Also, leading -- I consider ANY forward movement progress. Let THEM lead you. If they are going forward at the very end of a lead rope, it's still FORWARD. Any forward is praised. Sometimes the roughest step is the one out of the stall.; I let mama go loose & baby has freedom to go, but she's on a lead. I let baby go at her own speed after mama, but I'm attached. Important thing is to STAY OUT OF THE WAY. I believe that a horse's intention is not to run over you, therefore, if you are between the stall door & the baby, you're (in her mind) blocking the way. Move.

Also, stand either beside or behind your haltered & lead held foal. DON't stand in front & pull her towards you. Again, you're not making any sense to the horse. Why would you pull her on top of you, which, I believe, is where she sees herself going if she comes forward as you pull her towards you. Get beside or behind....works for me.......

As for flipping foals..........I just let em go........can't stop them, but they'll figure it out. Keep a loose hold on the lead if you can. Tie a knot in the end where you can put the heel of your hand & not have lead pulled free.

Best of luck. Hope I might have helped a little. That would be great...........karen

 

[Estelle]

I really appreciate the responses

But I guess somehow Im not explaining myself well enough.

I'll try adding more here...she is VERY independant and really couldnt care less if she stays next to mom or not. I think the idea of just letting her go and me follow would work...IF... the problem is she doesnt hardly hang with her mom at all, just if she wants a drink LOL and can she tear, I couldnt believe little legs could move so fast!! So if I try the follow mom out of the stall that will work until she is outside then she will be off on a tear and I would never be able to keep up with her so she would then hit the end of the leadline and I'd have the exact same problem I already have...I not sure there is a solution to this problem besides let go when she is freaking and then pick the leadline back up as soon as she stops...Im just worried she will get up from thowing herself down, take off and have the leadline attached which she could step on at a dead run (her favorite gait) LOL and really injure or kill herself...

 

[MiLo Minis]

I look at it this way: A horse that can't be lead and reacts violently when asked to give to the pressure is not a good horse to be around. She needs to learn to lead. This will require some patience and steel on your part. Hook the lead on to her halter and ask her to move forward. Let her fight it out until she is exhausted or gives. She may flip herself and carry on but don't release the pressure till she gives to it. Don't increase the pressure either - just stand patiently until she stops or gives. If you let go of the lead or release the pressure you are rewarding her behaviour and it will intensify and continue. You will likely only have to do this once but if you don't do it she won't be a nice horse to have around. There is only a remote possibility that she will hurt herself and it is to me a necessary risk. There are no easy outs!

 

[Estelle]

I agree she needs to stop, but you dont think there is much of a chance of her hurting her neck pulling back and thrashing like that as hard as she can? That's what worries me...awful tiny and not well developed at this age, she's pretty tiny and Im afraid of her hurting her neck seriously. I think Im just going to put the halter on her in the stall a few times every day with a leadline attached (and of course I will be there watching so nothing gets hung up) and see what happens, maybe she can teach herself to give to pressure on the halter where she already has it down with my hand and giving.

I look at it this way: A horse that can't be lead and reacts violently when asked to give to the pressure is not a good horse to be around. She needs to learn to lead. This will require some patience and steel on your part. Hook the lead on to her halter and ask her to move forward. Let her fight it out until she is exhausted or gives. She may flip herself and carry on but don't release the pressure till she gives to it. Don't increase the pressure either - just stand patiently until she stops or gives. If you let go of the lead or release the pressure you are rewarding her behaviour and it will intensify and continue. You will likely only have to do this once but if you don't do it she won't be a nice horse to have around. There is only a remote possibility that she will hurt herself and it is to me a necessary risk. There are no easy outs!

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

We have used the leadline attached to the halter & dragging it around routine on adult horses that, unfortuately, we discovered after we bought them, had no respect for the lead or whoever was holding it. With an adult, they'd be put into a separate small paddock with no possible "sticking catches" in there. We would leave them with the lead on for a long time. Sometimes even a week -- but I'm talking about an adult. And it does work.

However, it might work with your foal on a very limited time/space basis. Heck, if you're watching, it might be worth a try.

Estelle obviously knows what we're talking about here, but you others, don't flame me now -- I'm a realist when it comes to training, I'm not one who tries to "sing" their horses into listening. I've actually seen that! Then the "trainer" couldn't figure why there were no results.

: No, her baby wouldn't be breaking a leg or it's neck, so don't go there. We're talking very controlled environment for a short duration at a time with supervision.

 

[Tony]

You have received some good advice, but I must interject a warning on the one that said on a flipping foal, "just let her go." If you just let her go, you run a great risk of her hitting her head and killing herself. I know this from hard experience. Do NOT "let go", hang on for dear life and do not let the top of the head hit the ground. Yes, let them flip, since you really can't physically stop it, but that lead line is a life line as her head approaches the ground. Keep it up.

 

[Matt73]

I agree with Lori: Don't reward this behaviour! Contrary to your fears of her injuring herself, little ones are more resilient if anything. Train her in her stall (on bedding if you have to), but don't let her get away with it. To be honest, I haven't had a lot of experience with minis but...I have had plenty of experience with the odd thoroughbred that had the "challenge all humans on a regular basis" wire in his head switched on at all times :lol: ! Some horses take advantage of any little weakness or give. She sounds like this. Be firm, but gentle. Don't take any *&^!

 

[Estelle]

I have done that with the big one's too..it did cross my mind to do it with the baby, but wasnt sure if I should, but I think with total supervision it just might work..thanks for helping!

We have used the leadline attached to the halter & dragging it around routine on adult horses that, unfortuately, we discovered after we bought them, had no respect for the lead or whoever was holding it. With an adult, they'd be put into a separate small paddock with no possible "sticking catches" in there. We would leave them with the lead on for a long time. Sometimes even a week -- but I'm talking about an adult. And it does work.

However, it might work with your foal on a very limited time/space basis. Heck, if you're watching, it might be worth a try.

Estelle obviously knows what we're talking about here, but you others, don't flame me now -- I'm a realist when it comes to training, I'm not one who tries to "sing" their horses into listening. I've actually seen that! Then the "trainer" couldn't figure why there were no results.

: No, her baby wouldn't be breaking a leg or it's neck, so don't go there. We're talking very controlled environment for a short duration at a time with supervision.

Thanks! Very good, very sound advice...I can imagine how easy it would be for something like that to happen...I'll keep that in mind from now on when Im working with her I'll be sure to hang on to that leadline and keep her head up! thanks for that great tip!

It sounds like you had a bad experience with this and I want to send my sympathys to you, I can imagine how horrible that must have been.

You have received some good advice, but I must interject a warning on the one that said on a flipping foal, "just let her go." If you just let her go, you run a great risk of her hitting her head and killing herself. I know this from hard experience. Do NOT "let go", hang on for dear life and do not let the top of the head hit the ground. Yes, let them flip, since you really can't physically stop it, but that lead line is a life line as her head approaches the ground. Keep it up.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Tony -- Perhaps I wasn't clear -- I didn't mean to just let her go. I meant to just go ahead & let her have her fit. There's nothing you can do if they are throwing a tantrum. Your thots about keeping the head up are valid.

If you'll notice, I had put in my post that tying a knot in the end of the lead rope would help a person to hold on. It has stopped many a lead from just slipping through my fist. All of my leads (except show ones) have a knot at the end. I didn't mean to just let her go. Of course, I don't mean to be mean, Tony, I just thot possibly my words were misinterpreted. And yours are always appreciated by me

: .

 

[Estelle]

Thanks again everyone! Your advice is all greatly apprciated and I think I got some really good tips here...I'll be careful, I'll probably take it in stages...first wearing the halter more to get more used to that, then a leadline attached to drag in the stall, under supervision, then outside into the small pen and I'll try taking a hold and if she has a temper tantrum, I'll let her do it, but be sure when she crashes not to let her head hit the ground...sounds like a workable plan...thanks again!

 

[Magic]

Good advice here. I just wanted to add that I always begin halter and lead training either in a stall with rubber mats, or on a soft, grassy area, because I always expect foals to try to get away, and flip over.

Like Tony said, keep the foal's head from hitting the ground, if you can. I hold tight and when a foal throws itself backwards, use the leadrope to help lessen the blow of the ground (the reason for the softer surface too). Usually the rearing and flipping are only present at the first lesson, and after that the foals learn that it does no good (some even seem embarrassed, lol). But, some are more stubborn and want to be free spirits. When your filly takes a break from fighting the lead, give her scratches and encouraging words. When she's ready to pay some attention to her, just let her walk around, and you follow her, holding onto the lead. This way she will learn that you can control her, but to start with you are only controlling her from running away. Once she learns that, then she will be more open to learning to give to pressure, and to you actually leading her. Things should progress very quickly from there.

Aren't these babies fun?

 

[Estelle]

Lots of good advice here and it's much appreciated! I'll give you all an update on Monday as to how we are progressing...Im just going to halter her tonight, tomorrow I may halter and let her drag the line, friday will be the same and Saturday I'll go for the Gold. LOL

Good advice here. I just wanted to add that I always begin halter and lead training either in a stall with rubber mats, or on a soft, grassy area, because I always expect foals to try to get away, and flip over.

Like Tony said, keep the foal's head from hitting the ground, if you can. I hold tight and when a foal throws itself backwards, use the leadrope to help lessen the blow of the ground (the reason for the softer surface too). Usually the rearing and flipping are only present at the first lesson, and after that the foals learn that it does no good (some even seem embarrassed, lol). But, some are more stubborn and want to be free spirits. When your filly takes a break from fighting the lead, give her scratches and encouraging words. When she's ready to pay some attention to her, just let her walk around, and you follow her, holding onto the lead. This way she will learn that you can control her, but to start with you are only controlling her from running away. Once she learns that, then she will be more open to learning to give to pressure, and to you actually leading her. Things should progress very quickly from there.

Aren't these babies fun?

 

[SandyWI]

Hi Estelle! I know I'm jumping in here late but I've been gone for several days. For some reason, one of my foals this year was the same way. I could get the halter on her, but couldn't use any pressure with the lead rope, yet without the rope attached I could actually grab the chin of the halter and move her head around.

I put her into her stall with the lead rope attached and let her be herself. When she stepped on it she'd jerk her head but she didn't react too violently. I started doing this every day, morning and night, while I was graining all the horses, and finally, after a week, I was able to lead her around. This was a filly I thought would NEVER adapt to a lead rope, but she did. Just took a heck of a lot of patience and stick-to-it-ive-ness!

 

[Estelle]

Great! That's good news...Im glad to hear from someone that had a problem like mine and found this solution worked.

Hi Estelle! I know I'm jumping in here late but I've been gone for several days. For some reason, one of my foals this year was the same way. I could get the halter on her, but couldn't use any pressure with the lead rope, yet without the rope attached I could actually grab the chin of the halter and move her head around.

I put her into her stall with the lead rope attached and let her be herself. When she stepped on it she'd jerk her head but she didn't react too violently. I started doing this every day, morning and night, while I was graining all the horses, and finally, after a week, I was able to lead her around. This was a filly I thought would NEVER adapt to a lead rope, but she did. Just took a heck of a lot of patience and stick-to-it-ive-ness!

 

[Miniv]

Lots of good advice......especially for an independent foal!

I have had to do the halter with a short catch line in the past, but always in a small enclosed environment. If you are going to leave the lead on her, I highly advise tying it up short so it doesn't drag.

This method DOES work. We've had a flighty filly we have had to do it to and after a few hours we were able to to successfully do the pressure and release thing and within a day she was leading.

Good luck,

MA