SILVER MAPLES-TOXIC?

[Performancemini]

I tried to find the information on the info pages; but didn't find anything specific. I tried the general web; but found the overall view on silver maples (in the pasture) to be confusing. Some ok's, some no's. My husband is going to have one planted in one pasture Monday. He says the small grove already in the front of that pasture are silver maples. I am not sure they are. I thought one tree guy told us they are what he calls 'scrub trees' (they are tough little guys, the horses have gnawed on them a bit in the winter and they are all OK.). It's a nursery that is going to plant it. You would think they would know some of the ins and outs of animals and toxic plants/trees (but, never assume I suppose).

 

[Carolyn R]

It is the red maple that is toxic, and it is "said" to be only when the leaves are red and falling. Once the leaves are completely dry and brittle the harm is said to be gone. Being that it is from a nursery, it should be a straight up silver maple and not a hybrid. Problem is, especial round here in eastern Pa where there are multiple maples is that there is the possibility for there to be hybrids and the jury is out on the leaves being toxic on those. A horse that gets red maple poisoning is an awful site, had the unfortunate experience about 8-10 years ago with a stud that was a real router, regardless of what was available he was constantly digging for roots and routing things up.

I prefer to stick with birches,pines, and poplars.

 

[Shes My Style]

Pure silver maples are not supposed to be toxic, but red X silver hybrids are very common - even from nurseries.

As for "scrub trees" those can be about anything. Around here they call anything that does not make good lumber (due to type, size, lack of straightness, etc) or are not nice landscape trees "scrub trees".

Look up silver maples. The leaves are pretty distinctive and you should be able to tell if your established trees are silvers or at least possible hybrids.

 

[MindyLee]

HEY!!!

My farm is not toxic!

Just kinding.

I know that my stallion every yr gets bloted from eating some type of maple leaves. Its really hard on him and makes him enemic. Dr says not much I can do as they carry in the wind from the woods. My boy watches them hit the ground and gobbles them up soon as they land. Not a leaf not a one in his pasture to be found during fall.

 

[Performancemini]

Husband decided not to plant the one in the pasture after all. I found the receipt and they are bringing a Sunset Maple and a Norway Maple. I researched online and it sounds like the Sunset Maple is basically a red maple (or close enough) and the Norway Maple sounds like a close relative or hybrid type. Close enough I didn't want to chance it- so he is going to have plant both in the front yard near the beginning of the driveway.

Our scrub trees definitely don't seem to have maple style leaves. I think a agriculture fellow that was out several years ago told me what they were, but I am sure it wasn't maple. Now if I can nag enough to get husband to cut down the two BLACK WALNUTS!!!!!!! (one is close enough to the one pasture that the walnuts and some leaves fall inside (never seen them bother the walnuts, though the squirrels sure love 'em!). I hate tripping over them things-going to sprain my ankle some day!

 

[Carolyn R]

MindyLee, please be cautious. Red maple toxicity can be a very painful death, essentiially starving the body of oxygen, the cells are unstable and collapse/ rupture. The blood actually separates in a test tube without having to be spun down on a centrifuge, the red portion appears to be dark and muddy ot a vibrant red as it should appear,it is sad to watch and once it gets to the point of heavy breathing, shock, unstable hind end and urinating blood, it is too late and not likely to be reversed even with a plasma transfusion. It is not determined how much it takes to be lethal when it comes to minis, but it is not nearly as many as it would be for a large horse and the detrimental effects can be evident in as little as 12 hours. When you say your boy becomes anemic when this happens it is because the toxins are affecting his liver functions. Giving extra hay or keeping him in a large stall for the month in which the red maple foliage is at its worst may be a preventative measure.

I do not wish any owner to have to witness this type of death. My vet has only ever seen two cases, one of which was my horse.

Performance mini, I am glad you are proceeding with caution please still keep an eye on the sunset maple, or better yet, question the nursery on it. We do have a japanese maple which is said to be fine, but for safety sake and piece of mind, thankfully it is a dwarf and close to the house, as in within 10ft of our porch, not near the turnout.

 

[Shes My Style]

MindyLee - is there any way you could use temporary fencing like hotwire to contain him away from the area of the pasture those leaves are falling in during that time? I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Performancemini - be careful if you do get him to cut down the black walnuts. That can almost be worse than leaving them. Sawdust from cutting them down and the bare stump left can also trigger founder. We have one on our new property and we had it cut down but are now using a product that is supposed to accelerate the decomposition of the stump. I won't be using that area of that land until its gone and still may have it fenced off a year or two after the fact just to make sure everything is gone.

 

[Performancemini]

Thanks. The two maples are going way out front at the beginning of our driveway. Not close to any pastures or such at all. We have a red maple just off our back deck, which is closer to the pastures, but hopefully wind doesn't blow any far enough to get them inside them.

I will have to make sure to have the walnut stumps dug out and decomposed. One is not close to pastures; but the other is within about five feet of our largest. That's the one I have always harped about.

 

[Shari]

Am planning on planting some trees to replace the oaks we are taking down in the Horse pasture.

Going to put Willows in.... the whole tree is safe for animals.... only problem with them,, is they have to be 150' away from any Well or septic field.

 

[Performancemini]

Whoa! When we bought this place ( bout 17 years ago) it came with a HUGE old willow tree (things gotta be like 100+ years old!) that is like 20-25 feet or so from the well! Why should it be so far from the well? We had our water tested once and there weren't any problems. Roots? Don't seem to have any problems that way. Curious to know why? Do willows grow fast? What would be the best type of willow for a horse pasture. Ours (unfortunately!!!) has a waterway going through it. (couldn't tell when we bought it as the grass was way high and it wasn't pasture then. Another thing I DON'T like about this place and worry about some).

 

[amysue]

Willow tree roots travel deep in the ground searching for water and they will destroy pipes, wells and septic systems. So if your pasture has lost of water in it, and not any plumbing or wells under ground then a weeping willow or a corkscrew willow should do well. My vet told me that red maples and sugar maple leaves are toxic to horses during the fall season, when they are young and green or brown and on the ground they are supposedly okay. Silver maple or swamp maple, as it is referred to up north is supposed to be fine. I moved my horse's pen away from the sugar bush when he started getting a bloated belly and unstoppable diarrhea from eating the maple leaves.

 

[Shari]

Whoa! When we bought this place ( bout 17 years ago) it came with a HUGE old willow tree (things gotta be like 100+ years old!) that is like 20-25 feet or so from the well! Why should it be so far from the well? We had our water tested once and there weren't any problems. Roots? Don't seem to have any problems that way. Curious to know why? Do willows grow fast? What would be the best type of willow for a horse pasture. Ours (unfortunately!!!) has a waterway going through it. (couldn't tell when we bought it as the grass was way high and it wasn't pasture then. Another thing I DON'T like about this place and worry about some).

Because Willows love water and their roots will get into pipes and such, to get at water if they don't have enough.

Willows are great for drying out the land a little bit. Way back when, farmers would dig ditches in their wet fields and plant willows along the edge, to keep their fields drier.

Another safe tree for horse pastures, is, Green Ash.

 

[Performancemini]

Green Ash sound great overall. I was reading up on them. The big drawback here-the Emerald Ash Borer beetles! Seems like they are still active in our area. This would be a great tree otherwise if it isn't too pricey. I should probably check with the nurseries around here. They would be able to tell me more about the the beetles too.

 

[Carolyn R]

The roots seek out water sources

 

[Shari]

Glad you said that about Green Ash, as now I know, I live in an area of those pests.

But I did find this.... other options or varities..

Consult local garden centers, including historic or public gardens and arboreta regarding cultivars and related species that grow well in your area.

Cultivars of Fraxinus pennsylvanica:

`Marshall's Seedless' (same as ‘Marshall’) is a male clone which forms an upright, oval shape and has fewer pest problems than the species.

‘Patmore’ is a non-fruiting form that is relatively pest free.

`Summit' is a male tree with upright, pyramidal growth and excellent yellow fall foliage color.