Robin C....new feed from MannaPro

[minimule]

We have 4 different feedstores within about 7 miles. One sells Nutrena, one sells Purina, another sells Manna and Onate (local mill) and the other...who knows, I don't go there.

Supposedly Manna has come out with a new feed to match Safe Choice.

Can you help me out here? Not sure I like the list of ingredients. It's supposed to be a "controlled starch" feed good for horses with Cushings, Founder/Laminitis, IR, Ulcers, Colic, and allergies to corn or molasses.

Here are the ingredients for comparison:

Nutrena Safe Choice

Crude Protein...................min 14%

Lysine.............................min .8%

Methionine.......................min .3%

Threonine.........................min .5%

Crude Fat.........................min 7%

Crude Fiber......................min 15%

Calcium...............min .9% max 1.2%

Phosphorus......................min .75%

Copper.............................min 50 ppm

Selenium..........................min .6 ppm

Zinc.................................min 160 ppm

Vit. A...............................min 3,500 iu/lb

Vit. D...............................min 350 iu/lb oil

Vit. E...............................min 100 iu/lb

Biotin...............................min .45 mg/lb

INGREDIENTS

Grain products, Plant protein products, processed grain by products, roughage products 14%, dehydrated alfalfa meal, vit. A supplement, vit. D3 supplement, vit.E supplement, Vit B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, thiamine, folic acid, biotin, DL-methionine, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Lignin Sulfonate, Natural and artificial flavors added, manganous oxide, mangenese sulfate, ferrous sulfate, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, copper chloride, zinc sulfate, ethylenediamine dlhydriodide, zinc oxide, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, zinc methionine complex, copper lysine complex, manganese methionine complex, cobalt glucoheptonate, propionic acid, vegetable

Manna Pro Safe Performance

Crude Protein...................min. 14%

Lysine.............................min. .8%

Methionine.......................min. .3%

Crude Fat........................min 7%

Crude Fiber......................min 16%

Calcium................min. .8% max 1.3%

Phosphorus.....................min .75%

Copper............................min 50 ppm

Mangenese.....................min 175 ppm

Selenium.........................min .6 ppm

Zinc.................................min 200 ppm

Vit. A...............................min 5000 iu/lb

Vit. D3.............................min 375 iu/lb

Vit. E...............................min 80 iu/lb

Biotin...............................min .50 mg/lb

INGREDIENTS

Wheat middlings, soybean hulls, rice mill feed, dehydrated alfalfa meal, soybean meal, soybean oil, yeast culture, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, calcium bentonite, salt, magnesium oxide, potassium chloride, ferrous carbonate, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, copper amino acid chelate, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, manganese amino amino acid chelate, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, zinc amino acid chelate, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, vit. A supplement, Vit. D3 supplement, Vit. E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, choline chloride, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, Vit. B12 supplement, saccharomyces cerevisiae, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried bacillus subtilus fermentation product, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract.

Now...after all that, the product contains supplemental selenium. Do not feed this product at levels greater than recommended, nor in combination with other products containing supplemental selenium if the selenium concentration of the complete diet will exceed .30 ppm

We don't have a selenium problem where I'm at so that isn't a big deal. It's all that other stuff in the ingredients I really don't feel comfortable with. Sounds like an awful lot of "filler".........

What's your take on it?

Thanks!

 

[Tucker]

Hmmmmmmm, I FEED SAFE CHOICE MYSELF IT DONT LOOK BAD TO ME BUT IM A CHICKEN WHEN IT COMES TO CHANGEING FEEDS,I HAVE USED SAFE CHOICE FOR 3 YEARS NOW AND IM VERY HAPPY WITH IT IF YOU TRY IT LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The one thing that jumps out at me is that the Safe Choice states "grain products" while the Manna Pro states what it puts in the bag, which is what I would expect to see (our labeling actually requires it be law)

I would also like to see the Digestible Energy being quoted instead of Crude Protein- in a good feed there will be little difference but in some feeds especially dog food, you can bung any sort of "protein" in, even if it is known the animal in question cannot digest that protein source and declare it as "crude protein"

Again, that has been stopped over her and the TDN or more recently the DE has to be declared on the label, along with all ingredients.

I think you need to start lobbying these feed suppliers and telling them what you want- a standardised labeling would be a start!!

 

[Robin_C]

As Jane mentioned, the first thing I note is that Safe Choice is not a fixed formula feed and the Manna Pro is, i.e. the Safe Choice does not list specific ingredients, which means they can change the formulation from batch to batch to be the most cost effective. The Manna Pro IS fixed formula, so at least you know what you are getting. Both of these feeds would analyze out very similarly, however, with regard to nutrients supplied (with the exception of the nondisclosed items of starch/sugar and calories provided...these are ? at this point).

One of the goals of these new low carb/low starch feeds is to reduce carbohydrates and starches in the product. The primary way to do that is to restrict or eliminate grain products. Horses that need a reduced starch diet need to receive carbohydrates in either reduced amounts or from sources that are NOT grain-based (beet pulp is one carb source that comes to mind that is grainless). Therefore, the more "grain"-type ingredients you see, the MORE starch the feed will contain. The MannaPro product is not grainless as it contains wheat middlings, soy and rice, but when purchasing a feed that is meant to be LOW STARCH, I would rather see an ingredient list with these "fillers" (they're not really, but rather alternate ingredients to the standard grains -- oats, barley, corn) than a label that clearly states it contains "grain products" which could include oats, barley or corn -- ingredients I'm probably trying to avoid if I'm searching for a low starch product to begin with!

The primary measurement for starch and sugar in any horse feed is the NSC (nonstructural carbohydrates) percentage. This is NOT information that is provided on 99% of horse feed bag tags (I believe Progressive does provide NSC values). If you call Nutrena and ask them what the NSC value is of Safe Starch, you will frequently be told it is 16%, which is fairly low as compared to sweet feeds which might be in the 30-50% range. HOWEVER, independent testing of Nutrena Safe Starch indicated it actually contained 22-28% NSC. The 16% figure provided by Nutrena represented only the starch percentage alone. A feed that is 22-28% NSC is probably TOO HIGH for a horse who needs a tight, starch-restricted diet, although in it's favor, 22-28% is much lower than many sweet feeds, so may be suitable for many horses/ponies who might simply have a little weight problem. Many horses and ponies who are faced with moderate metabolic problems (including moderate to extreme obesity, insulin resistance, chronic laminitis) may benefit from products with NSC values in the 10-16% range, and profound metabolic horses (severe insulin resistance, founder) at 10% or less. I do not know what the NSC is on the Manna Pro feed, though that information can be obtained by calling the manufacturer and asking for starch AND sugar (NSC).

With regards to Jane's comment about protein, all bags here in the USA list protein as "Crude". This simply means that even though a product advertised as 14% protein provides 63.5 grams of protein per pound, not all of that is able to be utilized by the horse. The 14% represents the ACTUAL weight of protein contained in the feed, not the DIGESTIBLE protein (which will be less). However, I would note that both feeds show an added level of Lysine and Methionine, which increases the VALUE of the protein (lysine and methionine are both important amino acids which are the building blocks of protein). Quality of protein is every bit as important (probably MORE SO) as quantity of protein.

I also agree with Jane that more information should be supplied on our bag tags, such as NSC and DE (calories). Apparently that's just too much work for our manufacturers, especially those with non-fixed formulas, as those figures could vary from batch to batch, thus requiring the manufacturers to print new labels (new brochures, new ads) for every batch. THAT will never happen! Poo-bah for nondisclosure! :no:

Robin C

 

[minimule]

OK. I understand all that now.........how long would you feed one or two horses the new feed to see which one is better. How do you pick which horses to use for the experiment? I don't think I'd want to switch the entire herd over just in case it didn't work as well for us as the Safe Choice?

I'm willing to give it a shot.

 

[Robin_C]

I'd give any new feed 30 days to show it's true nature. As far as which horse to choose, as long as the horse is healthy with no issues such as founder, laminitis, other known (or suspected) metabolic disorder, or late pregnancy, any adult horse should do.

I do not like to experiment with feeds with unknown NSC values in horses who might be sensitive to starch and sugar. Kind of a catch-22 since you've chosen these feeds to apparently reduce the starch/sugar load in the diet. Why not call MannaPro before purchasing and see what the NSC value is? (and let us know!)

Robin C

 

[minimule]

I can do that! :bgrin

 

[minimule]

OK! According to the MannaPro rep, the NSC is 15%. I also questioned about broodmares and older horses since the original info I got about this feed didn't mention either of those. They said it "could" be used for either but they were recommending the Broodmare and Foal for broodmares in foal and the Senior feed for the older kids.

They are going to give me a bag to try and see if the horses will eat it. I just don't like fixing something that isn't "broke"...

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